Past #32: Mason Wood - 65 NM games/76 NM goals - delisted end '20 - SSP selection for STK '21 - GL Mase

[ArjenTheGreat]

Unless you're Darren Crocker or Leigh Tudor how in the world would you know any of that precisely? Sure Basti, Adams and Black might have been playing poorly from a supporters perspective but the coaches might be judging them on a completely different set of criteria to what the fans do and the fans don't know exactly what that criteria is. Maybe they fit structures better than the person who would replace them, maybe they play a role better than anyone that would replace them, maybe the players the fans want to replace t these players - eg Wood, Dumont and Kennedy is previous years - aren't ready to play that role in the side yet.


Why? It's a discussion I like to have, an obviously something that I'm passionate about/annoys me.

I'm not suggesting at all that fans can't disagree with decisions that are made or have their own opinions. But it's frustrating when they derisively dismiss the coaches decisions by claiming he has favourites or that he judges different players who play the same position on different criteria and claim that they know best even though they have absolutely no idea what discussions happen between coaching staff and players and exactly what the coaches are looking for from certain players. If that was the case then there would certainly be protests from players claiming they were being treated unfairly or protests from the coaching and selection staff that Brad was completely bias which obviously hasn't happened. As fans we have to trust the current custodians of our great club that they will make the right decisions for the future of the club - not blindly of course - but some calls by fans border on gross disrespect.

Passionless support renders the entire competition irrelevant. Your post is wonderfully written and in some creepy "utopia" that s**t may work. But here in the real world when people have emotional attachments and uber vested interest, it's going to boil over, and so it should.

Supporters have a love hate relationship with their football clubs and individual players through out the world. It's the way it is, the way it should be and the pressure of being a professional athelete. Robust discussion and criticism included with the creme de le creme of the worlds hottest women, oh, and not to mention some decent coin along the way and handy opportunities forever after.

Feel like the Turner selection last year flies in the face of a lot of the preconceptions of Bon on here.

Surely that was forced upon him.

If he had balls and it were his genius, he needed to play him rd 1.

 

[Saintly31]

To me it is patently obvious that Scott has had his favorites in last couple of years.

There is absolutely no other reason to explain why Adams was picked so long, why Black was persisted with, Bastinac doing nothing but given a gig, Spud in 2013, LT and his yips, Taz being picked off no form whatsoever, and so on. You claim they have targets of which we don't know about, well if that's the case they must be bloody low expectations.

That doesn't mean he is deliberately doing it, rather he has a pre-conceived view of where players rank and stands by them a lot longer than other coaches might. Plus we seem to have a culture where dropping to VFL is like a criminal sentence so the fringe players get the chop first (with a few rare exceptions), rather than just a good option to assist the player find form and confidence.

That isn't "wrong", it's just not how I would select and even if I don't know all the ins and outs (of course I don't), surely I can suggest my view based off what I have noticed.

Even the players themselves have said they were selected too long for heavens sake, primarily based on Scott's unwavering faith in the players he rates higher.

So yep, I take your point kangaspurs and fair enough, just that I will disagree. I think we will see a much harsher selection policy in 2015, as Scott will need to build off an impressive 2014 and I welcome that.

 

[Kimbo]

Robust discussion and criticism included with the creme de le creme of the worlds hottest women, oh, and not to mention some decent coin along the way and handy opportunities forever after.

So, your utopia then?

 

[Saintly31]

LOL. It's the same fans who cite any injury that takes a longer than expected recovery time as conclusive proof that the medical team ‘stuffed up’.

Yeah, because that was actually the crux of it wasn't it. Or not.

The point made was that our medical team make decisions to the best of their ability with information in front of them, and sometimes they get it wrong. For mine they got it wrong with Black despite understanding why we took that path. That is no slight on their ability, just with the ability of hindsight.

You have a very good, but selective, memory LTK. Believe it or not, Nth people don't always make the right decision every time whether coaching, drafting, medical or otherwise.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

So Turner wasn't picked by Brad because he didn't debut round one as an underweight rookie.

Possibly the biggest load of unsubstantiated s**t I've read in my time on bigfooty

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Unless you're Darren Crocker or Leigh Tudor how in the world would you know any of that precisely? Sure Basti, Adams and Black might have been playing poorly from a supporters perspective but the coaches might be judging them on a completely different set of criteria to what the fans do and the fans don't know exactly what that criteria is. Maybe they fit structures better than the person who would replace them, maybe they play a role better than anyone that would replace them, maybe the players the fans want to replace t these players - eg Wood, Dumont and Kennedy is previous years - aren't ready to play that role in the side yet.


Why? It's a discussion I like to have, an obviously something that I'm passionate about/annoys me.

I'm not suggesting at all that fans can't disagree with decisions that are made or have their own opinions. But it's frustrating when they derisively dismiss the coaches decisions by claiming he has favourites or that he judges different players who play the same position on different criteria and claim that they know best even though they have absolutely no idea what discussions happen between coaching staff and players and exactly what the coaches are looking for from certain players. If that was the case then there would certainly be protests from players claiming they were being treated unfairly or protests from the coaching and selection staff that Brad was completely bias which obviously hasn't happened. As fans we have to trust the current custodians of our great club that they will make the right decisions for the future of the club - not blindly of course - but some calls by fans border on gross disrespect.

I'm not going to throw out my sources on a public forum. My posting history about players is usually spot on.

There is not some big criterion that us supporters don't know about, players get judged on work rate, decision making, kicking and all the others things I got judged on when I played footy. Its a pretty simple game AFL coaches don't over complicate things…yes they have access to more information and have more tactical game plans ect, but you still have to do the simple things right like: Tackle, kick, make correct decisions ect. All the players I mentioned consistently didn't do those things while others in the VFL that were.

I know for a FACT. That certain players get judged more critically than others at our club. Eg: Levi. If Basti got roasted as much as what Levi did for mistakes over the past 4 years I'm tipping Basti would have taken any offer that came his way. Bias happens at any work place, its no different at a footy club. Ask any retired AFL footballer and they will tell you that coaches have their favourites.

 

[Saintly31]

Nah, roos_fanatic08. Clueless (despite an excellent post)

It's just stupid supporters with no idea (disregarding those with internal knowledge, or played the game at a high standard) that post here.

Scott has no favourites. He is coach. He is always right. End discussion.

 

[Istanbul Roo]

It's fairly clear that Scott will pick certain players, regardless of form, as they fit his structure (Adams, Bastinac, Black)

To me, he has an aversion to mixing things up.

I don't think he is an aversion to mixing things up. I thinks its more a reluctance to drop players. I'm not sure why, I would hope its because he is sensitive to the issue of player confidence, given as the players say themselves, so much of doing well in a match comes from an unthinking confidence.

But the match committee has dropped Cunnington, Harper, Firrito, McMahon, Daw, Jacobs and demoted Basti to bench ...

 

[LuvtheKangas]

You have a very good, but selective, memory LTK. Believe it or not, Nth people don't always make the right decision every time whether coaching, drafting, medical or otherwise.

No, but they sure don't make as many wrong decisions as you and some others claim. You're way too quick to point the finger. Usually without appreciation of the full facts.

FFS, you even argued black and blue that Boomer did the wrong thing blocking Selwood in the semi. I don't know what else there is to say if you don't understand that blocks on opponents moving into dangerous positions are a key part of structures.

 

[Istanbul Roo]

Nah, roos_fanatic08. Clueless (despite an excellent post)

It's just stupid supporters with no idea (disregarding those with internal knowledge, or played the game at a high standard) that post here.

Scott has no favourites. He is our coach. End discussion.

Doubt anyone would think you're stupid ...

But hyper-critical of the coach for years, pumping up your favoured players, criticizing others, wanting certain players dropped, underestimating their games, claiming coach bias if the match committee doesn't agree, underestimating how hard it is to play well, fantasizing that if we don't win (matches/premierships) its all the club's/head coach's fault, wise in hindsight ...

yeah, we might think that.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Why would coaches have favourite players, anyway? Something to do with what they bring to the team, maybe?

Or is it: "Oh, he's a good bloke around the club, very polite, always turns up on time. So I'll keep him in the side and keep out one of my "non-favourites" in the VFL even though the latter is a waaaay better player. Yeah, that's how I'll succeed as a coach."

 

[DunderHead]

The Brad bashing continues... everyone has there favourites. It just so happens that Brad Scott is a professional coach who without a doubt has a better understanding of the game and understanding of the inner workings of our team than anyone who posts on here by a long way.

It's not that you can't have an opinion and in hindsight you can definitely call out mistakes he's made. But some of you guys carry on like you actually think you'd be better at this gig than the guy whose being paid to do the job. The same guy who has won two premierships and just taken us to a prelim.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

The Brad bashing continues... everyone has there favourites. It just so happens that Brad Scott is a professional coach who without a doubt has a better understanding of the game and understanding of the inner workings of our team than anyone who posts on here by a long way.

It's not that you can't have an opinion and in hindsight you can definitely call out mistakes he's made. But some of you guys carry on like you actually think you'd be better at this gig than the guy whose being paid to do the job. The same guy who has won two premierships and just taken us to a prelim.

Yep. You'd think it was obvious but there are people here who will argue against the bolded bit.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Instead of saying he has favourites, maybe it can be said that he struggles to make the hard calls at the selection table.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Instead of saying he has favourites, maybe it can be said that he struggles to make the hard calls at the selection table.

I would agree with that. Black (2014) and Adams (2013 at least) both stayed in the seniors too long.

By the same token, it means he didn't panic and drop Ziebell or Swallow when the crowd here were making their frenzied calls. (Yes, new readers, last year some people were calling for the captain to be dropped when he was rusty in his return from the long Achilles absence).

 

[kangaspurs]

Passionless support renders the entire competition irrelevant. Your post is wonderfully written and in some creepy "utopia" that s**t may work. But here in the real world when people have emotional attachments and uber vested interest, it's going to boil over, and so it should.

Supporters have a love hate relationship with their football clubs and individual players through out the world. It's the way it is, the way it should be and the pressure of being a professional athelete. Robust discussion and criticism included with the creme de le creme of the worlds hottest women, oh, and not to mention some decent coin along the way and handy opportunities forever after.

To me it is patently obvious that Scott has had his favorites in last couple of years.

There is absolutely no other reason to explain why Adams was picked so long, why Black was persisted with, Bastinac doing nothing but given a gig, Spud in 2013, LT and his yips, Taz being picked off no form whatsoever, and so on. You claim they have targets of which we don't know about, well if that's the case they must be bloody low expectations.

That doesn't mean he is deliberately doing it, rather he has a pre-conceived view of where players rank and stands by them a lot longer than other coaches might. Plus we seem to have a culture where dropping to VFL is like a criminal sentence so the fringe players get the chop first (with a few rare exceptions), rather than just a good option to assist the player find form and confidence.

That isn't "wrong", it's just not how I would select and even if I don't know all the ins and outs (of course I don't), surely I can suggest my view based off what I have noticed.

Even the players themselves have said they were selected too long for heavens sake, primarily based on Scott's unwavering faith in the players he rates higher.

So yep, I take your point kangaspurs and fair enough, just that I will disagree. I think we will see a much harsher selection policy in 2015, as Scott will need to build off an impressive 2014 and I welcome that.

Yeah, because that was actually the crux of it wasn't it. Or not.

The point made was that our medical team make decisions to the best of their ability with information in front of them, and sometimes they get it wrong. For mine they got it wrong with Black despite understanding why we took that path.

That is no slight on their ability, just with the ability of hindsight.

You have a very good, but selective, memory LTK. Believe it or not, Nth people don't always make the right decision every time whether coaching, drafting, medical or otherwise.

I know you like to push the angle that no posters have a right to question decisions made by the club and we should just accept it as always being right, but we would likely have a far bigger cabinet than 4 premierships if that were the case.

I'm certainly not suggesting that fans shouldn't criticise or voice their own opinions on players and the way we're playing - if that was the case there's be no need for foums and I definitely wouldn't be here. But there comes a time when voicing an opinion or criticising crosses over into blatant disrespect. Particularly when posters are so derisively dismissive of coaches decisions and throw around ridiculous accusation when they have no idea what players are being judged on or what coaches want from players or they way they fit in their gameplan. There's a way to criticise and voice opinions respectfully and in my opinion that's not it. These are the people that our club has entrusted to make these decisions and there needs to be trust from fans in these people.

Saintly I've got absolutely no idea what you do for living, but how are you qualified to categorically make the call that the Black decision was the wrong one? There are a myriad of factors and discussions between medical personnel, Black and the coaching staff that would have gone on to reach that decision, it's not one that was arbitrarily made.

Arjen and Saintly, don't take this as a peronal attack or anything either. Although I obviously don't agree with some of your opinions and the way you go about reaching your conclusions I fully acknowledge that you have every right to express them; after we're all passionate about North otherwise we wouldn't be here. It's just that after being on here for a while and reading other supporter forums the very nature of being a supporter is something that i don't mind discussing.

I'm not going to throw out my sources on a public forum. My posting history about players is usually spot on.

There is not some big criterion that us supporters don't know about, players get judged on work rate, decision making, kicking and all the others things I got judged on when I played footy. Its a pretty simple game AFL coaches don't over complicate things…yes they have access to more information and have more tactical game plans ect, but you still have to do the simple things right like: Tackle, kick, make correct decisions ect. All the players I mentioned consistently didn't do those things while others in the VFL that were.

I know for a FACT. That certain players get judged more critically than others at our club. Eg: Levi. If Basti got roasted as much as what Levi did for mistakes over the past 4 years I'm tipping Basti would have taken any offer that came his way. Bias happens at any work place, its no different at a footy club. Ask any retired AFL footballer and they will tell you that coaches have their favourites.

Would never have asked you do that, I respect that you receive this information and that you know someone in the footy club. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that bias and favouritism exists in the club between Brad and players to that extent. That's not the way that professional organisations - particularly sports clubs - are run without the coach being sacked. If it was truely to that extent then I'm surprised we've not heard any rumours of discontent from the players or from the other members of the coaching staff, if that was the case then we wouldn't have been one of the best performed clubs throughout the expansion and free agency periods - we'd be losing players left right and centre

 

[Saintly31]

Doubt anyone would think you're stupid ...

But hyper-critical of the coach for years, pumping up your favoured players, criticizing others, wanting certain players dropped, underestimating their games, claiming coach bias if the match committee doesn't agree, underestimating how hard it is to play well, fantasizing that if we don't win (matches/premierships) its all the club's/head coach's fault, wise in hindsight ...

yeah, we might think that.

"For years"? Hardly. I have my criticisms, but very willing to give credit to coach and players also.

I think you are confusing me for someone else. As a Scott and all things are always perfect in Nth world disciple, I'm not surprised.

 

[Istanbul Roo]

"For years"? Hardly. I have my criticisms, but very willing to give credit to coach and players also.

I think you are confusing me for someone else. As a Scott and all things are always perfect in Nth world disciple, I'm not surprised.

Fail ... I don't think its me that's confused. And I don't think I've ever praised Brad Scott. I've defended him and 'North world' (whatever that is, let's say its Steve Saunders ...) against posts that deride their decisions without knowing the ins and outs of the situation. Must make me a disciple.

 

[Saintly31]

Fail ... I don't think its me that's confused. And I don't think I've ever praised Brad Scott. I've defended him and 'North world' (whatever that is, let's say its Steve Saunders ...) against posts that deride their decisions without knowing the ins and outs of the situation. Must make me a disciple.

Nah, I think you are confused as whilst I have players I criticize, I regularly support as well. That includes Scott where credit is due.
Yes you do blindly defend, as who are you to say a poster is wrong when you also don't know the "in and outs of the situation"? It is called opinion and everyone on here is entitled to theirs whether positive or negative regardless what the topic may be.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

So, your utopia then?

Haha, not so much my utopia, just the way I have, and will continue to roll.

I lived in England for a few years and attended many EPL games and have seen first hand what vitriol is, what supporter power is, and what flat out disrespect and indeed what actually constitutes disgraceful behaviour.

We, as in Australians, are by and large good people in comparison.

However, the day we hang/burn effigy's of "judas scum" with a noose around its neck is the day we have crossed the line. And we have a long way to go to get anywhere near that bad.

 

[Daniltchenko You Beauty]

You know what's more important if you're a coach than playing your 'favourites'?

Winning.

You don't win, you don't have a job. If we didn't make finals last year, the pressure would have been on to sack Scott. To argue that he would play his 'favourites' instead of the best 22 is ridiculous.

We may disagree with selection decisions, but we are on the outside and coaching is far more complex than it has ever been. Guys like Patch, Blacky and Basti may not live up to our expectations, but internally they may be rated higher for a specific role they play or more complicated reasons than just the number of disposals they get.

Not to mention history shows the most stable teams, i.e. the teams who play the least number of players, tend to win Premierships rather than teams that continually chop and change their line-ups constantly.

 

[Kimbo]

Haha, not so much my utopia, just the way I have, and will continue to roll.

I lived in England for a few years and attended many EPL games and have seen first hand what vitriol is, what supporter power is, and what flat out disrespect and indeed what actually constitutes disgraceful behaviour.

We, as in Australians, are by and large good people in comparison.

However, the day we hang/burn effigy's of "judas scum" with a noose around its neck is the day we have crossed the line. And we have a long way to go to get anywhere near that bad.

Yeah, it's all relative I guess. Who knows, had I attended the EPL games and faced such scenarios I might not view Subi so badly. Might not.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Would be nice to actually talk about Mason in here.

Picked for the next NAB game in the squad of 29

 

[KangaRooster]

"How good is Mason Wood"

Statement or question...

You decide.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Would be nice to actually talk about Mason in here.

Picked for the next NAB game in the squad of 29

Should make a good fist of it. In really good nick and showing good signs on the training track.