3rd West Australian team VS long term viability of poorer VIC Teams

[Defacto]

i was wondering if a 3rd WA team is on the agenda?

it seems to me that it would be more viable, profitable and contribute more to the game than 1 or 2 of the poorer victorian teams.

surely at some point question marks have to be raised over the long term viability of so many victorian teams. some of which have not obtained membership higher than 35k even in times of success, which makes me think, how big is the supporter pool in reality.

 

[Kwality]

Pls no more teams - 2nd tier footy is 2nd best, kids footy is kids footy, AFL footy was supposed to be elite.

 

[blaze036]

Let GC and GWS settle for the next decade then talk seriously talking about expansion.

Things will look a lot different by then

 

[Defacto]

Pls no more teams - 2nd tier footy is 2nd best, kids footy is kids footy, AFL footy was supposed to be elite.

i'm not talking about 19 teams. i'm talking about 18 teams, with a 3rd WA Team and one less victorian team. be it merger or fold.

very interested if any numbers have been floated or any comparison between the two

 

[Scotland]

Long term it's hard to argue that a 3rd WA team would not be more commercially viable compared to maintaining 10 teams in Victoria, but I don't think it is on the AFL's agenda.

The AFL cares about two things; money from TV rights and (primarily) Victorian attendances, and growing the game in the Northern states. Replacing North Melbourne with North Perth doesn't really serve either of these objectives.

In short, for all the effort involved in relocating an existing club/creating a new one the AFL basically just gets back the $2-3m a year or whatever the Melbourne club costs them in ASD for 11 less Melbourne games (Etihad/MCG don't pay for themselves), minimal general ticket sales revenue and zero change to the TV rights deal.

Not on the radar until there is a 60k+ stadium in Perth and there's a potential financial benefit for the AFL.

 

[MB1908]

Pls no more teams - 2nd tier footy is 2nd best, kids footy is kids footy, AFL footy was supposed to be elite.

The topic is about a 3rd WA team replacing a current VIC team. The pool of talent would still remain the same.

As for the OP I am of the same opinion.

2 VIC teams need to go and we need a Tasmanian team. There is more than enough people and support in Tasmania to support an AFL side.

 

[The Hobo]

New team does not mean crap team. In the case of Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney, they both are emerging markets which means there was not a lot of home grown talent, which is why they've struggled.

A state with a proven history in AFL would fare better. Look at Port Adelaide as an example, they finished 9th in their first season, missing out on finals by percentage.

I have no doubt that a third Western Australian team - allowed to pick players from the WAFL, and a little bit of assistance with draft picks/trades - would be in far better shape on the field, than some of the so called Victorian powerhouse teams that have been struggling for near on a decade. (i'm talking from a purely on the field football perspective)

 

[Defacto]

New team does not mean crap team. In the case of Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney, they both are emerging markets which means there was not a lot of home grown talent, which is why they've struggled.

A state with a proven history in AFL would fare better. Look at Port Adelaide as an example, they finished 9th in their first season, missing out on finals by percentage.

I have no doubt that a third Western Australian team - allowed to pick players from the WAFL, and a little bit of assistance with draft picks/trades - would be in far better shape on the field, than some of the so called Victorian powerhouse teams that have been struggling for near on a decade. (i'm talking from a purely on the field football perspective)

couldnt agree more. has any research been done on the possible membership numbers of a third wa team

 

[Pusswah]

Maybe the saints could relocate to Bunbury.

 

[Defacto]

Maybe the saints could relocate to Bunbury.

sure, how many 1st round draft picks do we get and west australian zone concessions

 

[Kwality]

The topic is about a 3rd WA team replacing a current VIC team. The pool of talent would still remain the same.

As for the OP I am of the same opinion.

2 VIC teams need to go and we need a Tasmanian team. There is more than enough people and support in Tasmania to support an AFL side.

Yep, no extra team equals count me in - Vic clubs of the cotcase variety have had more than 100 years to get their fans, their sponsors, their stadium deal & have failed - move on, strip them of their licence, allocate a VFL place for them & grow the game nationally by allocating the licences to deserving markets.

 

[Kwality]

sure, how many 1st round draft picks do we get and west australian zone concessions

Are you a glued on Saint, know anyone who would toss in their support ? Weak link, no footy fans would go to their games, eh just a minor point.

 

[Defacto]

Are you a glued on Saint, know anyone who would toss in their support ? Weak link, no footy fans would go to their games, eh just a minor point.

of course i am but i'm not going to treat posts that are clearly pulling the piss seriously

we have serious challenges but we have plenty of upside. we have a very decent supporter base, we just havent engaged them or turned them into members. wasnt long ago we had 45k members. so you can see the upside and potential. the words coming out of the AFL basically say this. we've contributed a large amount of coin to etihad to our own detriment. we are in the long term planning of the AFL and they are currently assisting us to get us back on track

theres no reason why we cant be a self sustained entity turning a decent profit

 

[mxett]

How would you introduce a new Perth team? The eagles have been successful because they captured fans from the entire city. Fremantle were a large successful club with their own fans already on board. How would this new team attract fans given most already already support either the dockers or eagles?

 

[Kwality]

of course i am but i'm not going to treat posts that are clearly pulling the piss seriously

we have serious challenges but we have plenty of upside. we have a very decent supporter base, we just havent engaged them or turned them into members. wasnt long ago we had 45k members. so you can see the upside and potential. the words coming out of the AFL basically say this. we've contributed a large amount of coin to etihad to our own detriment. we are in the long term planning of the AFL and they are currently assisting us to get us back on track

theres no reason why we cant be a self sustained entity turning a decent profit

I was not having a shot at the Saints, and as you indicate, fans dont change sides unless put up against the wall ...

 

[telsor]

How would you introduce a new Perth team? The eagles have been successful because they captured fans from the entire city. Fremantle were a large successful club with their own fans already on board. How would this new team attract fans given most already already support either the dockers or eagles?

That's always going to be the question. It'd actually have a better chance if they don't get a new stadium (people joining the new club so they can actually see games live), but really the market is pretty much locked up.

Of course, seeing as we're being cold and unsentimental about clubs over 100 years old, we could always kill off a relative newcomer like WCE and break it in 2 (or 3, while we're at it).

 

[mxett]

That's always going to be the question. It'd actually have a better chance if they don't get a new stadium (people joining the new club so they can actually see games live), but really the market is pretty much locked up.

Of course, seeing as we're being cold and unsentimental about clubs over 100 years old, we could always kill off a relative newcomer like WCE and break it in 2 (or 3, while we're at it).

Haha, that's an interesting idea

 

[Kram]

Not that it would or should happen but North would probably do alright over here, lots of supporters in WA and would get an initial foothold as a 3rd option with Subiaco completely sold out every week now.

 

[Kwality]

That's always going to be the question. It'd actually have a better chance if they don't get a new stadium (people joining the new club so they can actually see games live), but really the market is pretty much locked up.

Of course, seeing as we're being cold and unsentimental about clubs over 100 years old, we could always kill off a relative newcomer like WCE and break it in 2 (or 3, while we're at it).

Hopefully when WA get extra games as a result of equalisation, the WA clubs wont get allocated full stadiums, they are forced to provide the equivalent of the Melbourne clubs 3 game membership.
Would the Eagles be the first thru 100,000 members courtesy of the AFL?
Heavens above, a team with 100,000 members after 25 years!!

 

[Rob]

How would you introduce a new Perth team? The eagles have been successful because they captured fans from the entire city. Fremantle were a large successful club with their own fans already on board. How would this new team attract fans given most already already support either the dockers or eagles?

That's the problem. If you use population, seats available, pretty much any demographic stat then you can mount a case for it. But that's not always how football works. You still need to find supporters, and if you start a new team people aren't just going to go 'oh, i'll support this new team'. Not in big numbers anyway.

It's not like there's a clear geographical hole either. You might be able to argue a case for a team in the Eastern suburbs, but it's a bit of a long bow.

 

[telsor]

Hopefully when WA get extra games as a result of equalisation, the WA clubs wont get allocated full stadiums, they are forced to provide the equivalent of the Melbourne clubs 3 game membership.
Would the Eagles be the first thru 100,000 members courtesy of the AFL?
Heavens above, a team with 100,000 members after 25 years!!

Has any official from the AFL (of WAFC, or anyone 'in the know') said anything to suggest that your premise was even under consideration?

If WCE wants 3 game memberships, they can! Indeed, it'd probably be a good idea to help reduce the waiting list. That they lack the willingness/interest to help their members like this is really their failing, nothing to do with the number of games.

 

[Kwality]

Has any official from the AFL (of WAFC, or anyone 'in the know') said anything to suggest that your premise was even under consideration?

If WCE wants 3 game memberships, they can! Indeed, it'd probably be a good idea to help reduce the waiting list. That they lack the willingness/interest to help their members like this is really their failing, nothing to do with the number of games.

The Eagles have a waiting list, IF they were to introduce the 3 game nominal membership, they'd start in the far queue. You wouldnt dud potential Tigers members ... maybe you would, Benny wont.

As for equalisation, see leaks from the Hawks & Eddie. Letting the faithful down slowly.

 

[Defacto]

Hopefully when WA get extra games as a result of equalisation, the WA clubs wont get allocated full stadiums, they are forced to provide the equivalent of the Melbourne clubs 3 game membership.
Would the Eagles be the first thru 100,000 members courtesy of the AFL?
Heavens above, a team with 100,000 members after 25 years!!

what exactly are you suggesting?

that because the stadium is smaller over here, the AFL should buy eagles memberships to make up the difference in lost revenue?

 

[telsor]

The Eagles have a waiting list, IF they were to introduce the 3 game nominal membership, they'd start in the far queue. You wouldnt dud potential Tigers members ... maybe you would, Benny wont.

How would it dud potential members to get 3 game memberships?

Next 5000 full members to move on get replaced by 20000 partial members (3 games doesn't divide easily, so make it 3/3/3/2, with the 2 including the derby).

15,000 more people get to see games live rather than paying money to stay on a wait list that moves slowly (more people also means faster movement). How is that 'dudding' them?

Once the second tier membership is established, the flow goes wait list > partial > full as spots become available.

As for equalisation, see leaks from the Hawks & Eddie. Letting the faithful down slowly.

Such as?


Also, how would games moved to WA allow more games access for WCE members? Surely the (relocated) home team would control access.

 

[fabulousphil]

A 3rd WA team would have more members , financial clout, sponsorship, than probably 3 to 4 Vic teams.

That's the problem. If you use population, seats available, pretty much any demographic stat then you can mount a case for it. But that's not always how football works. You still need to find supporters, and if you start a new team people aren't just going to go 'oh, i'll support this new team'. Not in big numbers anyway.

It's not like there's a clear geographical hole either. You might be able to argue a case for a team in the Eastern suburbs, but it's a bit of a long bow.

Disagree there, i think a Northern and North Eastern Suburbs Perth ( north of Sorrento ) out to Ellenbrook has the potential to crack 25/30k of members with relative ease, and not inpinge on the Eagles membership base at all.

A third team in Perth would be stronger than quite a few Vic teams in plenty of areas.

Talk of a West Perth/East Perth combined AFL team will continue.