No Oppo Supporters Jack Watts - Traded to PA for pick 31, Thanks Jack

Jack Watts?


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OK let me put my 2c in here.

Clearly we are all for strong discussion and differences of opinion here... FFS we have already notched up 650 posts about Jack Watts this year, and thousands more in previous years. If we all had the same opinion that would not eventuate.

I know this is the Watts thread, but let me digress to make the broader points we are discussing here.

Discussion about Toumpas is now going the same way, and I for one am not a fan of it having experienced the roller-coaster of emotion that Watts' career has produced on this forum.

I am by no means Jimmy's biggest fan - let's be honest, he's played 2 or 3 good games in his career, and has had more brain fades than he has eaten hot dinners in that time.

But I'm also conscious of the limiting factors in his career thus far. His first year was basically a write-off due to those hip surgeries and that maniac Neeld sucking all the life out of the club. Still he managed 10-odd games. Last year was not much better - hardly the environment for a kid coming from behind the 8-ball to succeed in.

What Melbourne supporters have done, IMO, is project all our fears of failed draft picks onto Jimmy, without giving him any time to find his feet. Of course it doesn't help that Wines is already an A-grader, but we made our bed so we have to lay in it now. Not all draftees develop at the same pace! No doubt most realise this, but my issue is that people are so quick to jump on and give him a whack. He strung together 3 solid games in a row, then regressed a little against Geelong and was subbed off, then people called for his head again. So what! He's not going to improve by going back to Casey after one poor game.

As I have said all year, he needs a consistent run of games at AFL level to find his feet. He's getting that, despite each week's Changes thread being full of people wanting him dropped - even after the Saints game where he may well have been in the votes.

This is why myself and others probably look like Watts/Toumpas fan-boys on here - I, for one, try not to yell DROP TOUMPAS HE'S USELESS in the heat of the moment after yet another bad loss. I'm trying to smooth out the roller-coaster a little, where others seem intent on swinging as wildly as possible from side to side on these issues. Of course that is how the internet works, but thankfully the club does not work the same way as BigFooty.

I would challenge all those on the Toumpas bashing bandwagon to look at things with a little more balance, and indeed find other players or issues to dissect instead of reaching straight for the easy stuff. Rage about a terrible coach-killing turnover, sure, but think for a second whether he should actually be dropped/delisted/traded for that incident before calling for his head. Same goes for Watts bashers.
 

Cannon82

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Try and see it from the other point of view.

Watch game.
Comment on the catalogue of terrible things Toumpas has done.
Have people jump out and defend him because he's had it tough, slow start, dog ate his homework, etc.
Repeat weekly.
We're commenting on the game and on a pattern of behaviour.

Which of those is more relevant to match-day discussions? What he's just done or the as yet untapped potential we're still hoping to see?

I'm not a Toumpas fan, but the number of people trotting out the same excuses and serving up "I told you so"s on the basis of one decent game where he showed up for 3 quarters has backed me firmly into the opposition corner and I pretty much criticize him every week to annoy people. Maybe he'll become a very good player, maybe he won't. Most likely, we'll get better on the backs of guys like Hogan, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney, etc and Toumpas will become a serviceable player doing a job most weeks like Scully at GWS. The guy is still battling for his place in the team with Matt Jones and Rohan Bail. There are plenty of things to be concerned about.

If you think the guy is going to be great, save it up and let it out when it happens. Let it rain smugness. Business as usual until then.
 
I pretty much criticize him every week to annoy people.

You're entitled to do this of course, but I don't really see the point in criticism for the sake of it. It tends to become pretty blinkered, to the point where people are pointing out Toumpas allowing Montagna to stroll into an open goal but then forgetting his 25 touches and two goals. IMO we should take the good with the bad and form an overall view of his performance.

Most likely, we'll get better on the backs of guys like Hogan, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney, etc and Toumpas will become a serviceable player doing a job most weeks like Scully at GWS

I agree with this.
 

Cannon82

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You're entitled to do this of course, but I don't really see the point in criticism for the sake of it. It tends to become pretty blinkered, to the point where people are pointing out Toumpas allowing Montagna to stroll into an open goal but then forgetting his 25 touches and two goals. IMO we should take the good with the bad and form an overall view of his performance.

You can criticize someone or talk about a bad game without writing them off forever. Some of the things he does are literally ******* awful - that's purely descriptive, not unfairly critical. Also, when that last little ditty happens to lead to the game-deciding goal, its going to be a discussion point. When the game was in the balance, he also had one touch in the fourth quarter. Even if he improves a lot, I am going to have serious doubts about this bloke if we become a competitive side, make finals and its a close game in the last quarter. You can pretty much guarantee it'll be Brown Town for Jimmy T.

Happy for you guys to act morally superior playing Tammy Wynette for the Toump, but I can't see any of you putting the mortgage on this bloke playing 100 games for the club. He probably will, and it'll be underwhelming, but would you put your house on it?
 
Let's make one thing very clear.

All us mods are more then happy for people to debate the strengths and weaknesses of player, strongly as well.

What people are getting tired of is the snide and offensive personal remarks made about players - we don't really want this to become a theme here, it has been with Watts but hopefully we can move past that.

We don't want to have to make a short term set of guidelines for posting on this board, I haven't talked to the other mods about this but I'm sure we'll discuss it.

At the moment it seems like we're slowly turning into a more jovial Demonland, which would be a terrible result.
 

deeco

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You can criticize someone or talk about a bad game without writing them off forever. Some of the things he does are literally ******* awful - that's purely descriptive, not unfairly critical. Also, when that last little ditty happens to lead to the game-deciding goal, its going to be a discussion point. When the game was in the balance, he also had one touch in the fourth quarter. Even if he improves a lot, I am going to have serious doubts about this bloke if we become a competitive side, make finals and its a close game in the last quarter. You can pretty much guarantee it'll be Brown Town for Jimmy T.

Happy for you guys to act morally superior playing Tammy Wynette for the Toump, but I can't see any of you putting the mortgage on this bloke playing 100 games for the club. He probably will, and it'll be underwhelming, but would you put your house on it?
The way the coaches all talk about Jimmy I'd double up, get a loan, put the money and the house on it that he'll get to 100 games, but given the way half our blokes on this forum rate him I'd only need to put down a couple of grand on the ridiculous odds you'd give me to make that sort of money. And no, I don't live in a shack in the country :oops:

Let's make one thing very clear.

All us mods are more then happy for people to debate the strengths and weaknesses of player, strongly as well.

What people are getting tired of is the snide and offensive personal remarks made about players - we don't really want this to become a theme here, it has been with Watts but hopefully we can move past that.

We don't want to have to make a short term set of guidelines for posting on this board, I haven't talked to the other mods about this but I'm sure we'll discuss it.

At the moment it seems like we're slowly turning into a more jovial Demonland, which would be a terrible result.
Interesting how people see what they want out of a game. ANB shits his pants a few times a game, not even a mention. Jimmy drops 20 and 2 at 75% "HE LOOKED SCARED THAT ONE TIME LOL BAD GAME." Very strange.
 
Funnily enough my 'tear strips off a player' routine usually occurs in a game day thread or review.

Looking back through both the Toumpas and Watts threads, I dont think I've said anything outrageously out of line about either of them at all, usually a comment on what i have seen occur and the occasional piss take.

My Toumpas anger in the G/B/U after the Saints shemozzle was over the top and i did admit this later in thread saying i shouldn't have gone as hard as i did nor used BF's magic 'campaigner' word when directing my venom at him.

I dont make a habit of coming into Watts thread to bag him at all. Infact my last post about him as a player in this thread was a positive one.

The Toumpas thread, meh, much in the same way posters turn a blind eye to his deficiencies because he is 'young' i even out and balance the thread by going over the top. I maintain he isn't any good, but id hardly call what i say in it as anymore hysterical than a person who maintains their own stance from the opposite end of the spectrum.

I just comment on what I've seen and whilst it may not be everyone's cup of tea, its not like i go out of my way and post any caption .jpg's labelling either of them a girl or anything is it?
 
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What's interesting is that someone mentioned how BigFooty isn't (or shouldnt be) read by the actual players, and therefore it's open season.

But it's pretty much a given that the forums are trawled by journos looking for a 'scoop' and that contributes directly to the tone of articles directed towards players. When you see a line like 'fans are tired of X' it's a pretty safe bet the evidence behind that is a site like BF (or Facebook, Twitter, whatever.)

I'm not saying we have to censor ourselves. But it's worth noting that the negativity definitely filters out into the football sphere, even if (as I assume) this whole forum is actually me and someone else with ten thousand puppet accounts discussing 'football'.
 
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Cannon82

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When you see a line like 'fans are tired of X' it's a pretty safe bet the evidence behind that is a site like BF (or Facebook, Twitter, whatever.)

Evidence? Journalists?

I think Melbourne players would be shocked to find out about the fans' negativity over the last 8 years. Or they would if they hadn't been booed off the park 20 or 30 odd times in recent years.
 

Andy_Mac

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Do you know of any jobs vacant that offer you 400 - 500k with 2 months holidays per year to fill out spread sheets? The yelling and screaming part is fine with me so long as i continue to get paid.

I had a look on seek but couldn't find any.
The money makes it worse...
 

Topkent

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The way the coaches all talk about Jimmy I'd double up, get a loan, put the money and the house on it that he'll get to 100 games, but given the way half our blokes on this forum rate him I'd only need to put down a couple of grand on the ridiculous odds you'd give me to make that sort of money. And no, I don't live in a shack in the country :oops:


Interesting how people see what they want out of a game. ANB shits his pants a few times a game, not even a mention. Jimmy drops 20 and 2 at 75% "HE LOOKED SCARED THAT ONE TIME LOL BAD GAME." Very strange.

What 2 game player ANB vs 3 an a half year player an number 4 draft pick toumpas?


I'm with cannon an rude , we could all sit here an do the 'he was a top draft pick everything will improve eventually he's young ' or we could actually discuss players strengths and weaknesses

Some of the blokes on here assume every player on our list will make it because they were drafted, further to that How come watts an toump are off limits but people lay the boots into bail an Jones every week
 
Funnily enough my 'tear strips off a player' routine usually occurs in a game day thread or review.

Looking back through both the Toumpas and Watts threads, I dont think I've said anything outrageously out of line about either of them at all, usually a comment on what i have seen occur and the occasional piss take.

My Toumpas anger in the G/B/U after the Saints shemozzle was over the top and i did admit this later in thread saying i shouldn't have gone as hard as i did nor used BF's magic 'campaigner' word when directing my venom at him.

I dont make a habit of coming into Watts thread to bag him at all. Infact my last post about him as a player in this thread was a positive one.

The Toumpas thread, meh, much in the same way posters turn a blind eye to his deficiencies because he is 'young' i even out and balance the thread by going over the top. I maintain he isn't any good, but id hardly call what i say in it as anymore hysterical than a person who maintains their own stance from the opposite end of the spectrum.

I just comment on what I've seen and whilst it may not be everyone's cup of tea, its not like i go out of my way and post any caption .jpg's labelling either of them a girl or anything is it?

Comments definitely aren't aimed singularly at you mate (or Cannon), this will be a point made for the entire board.

You've been posting well about footy issues - even a lot of your stuff on Toump is valid.

What 2 game player ANB vs 3 an a half year player an number 4 draft pick toumpas?


I'm with cannon an rude , we could all sit here an do the 'he was a top draft pick everything will improve eventually he's young ' or we could actually discuss players strengths and weaknesses

Some of the blokes on here assume every player on our list will make it because they were drafted, further to that How come watts an toump are off limits but people lay the boots into bail an Jones every week

Off course you can and should debate a players strengths and weaknesses.

It's not about what player is being targeted, it's about the type of targeting - Watts and especially Toump are just convenient examples.
 
OK let me put my 2c in here.

Clearly we are all for strong discussion and differences of opinion here... FFS we have already notched up 650 posts about Jack Watts this year, and thousands more in previous years. If we all had the same opinion that would not eventuate.

I know this is the Watts thread, but let me digress to make the broader points we are discussing here.

Discussion about Toumpas is now going the same way, and I for one am not a fan of it having experienced the roller-coaster of emotion that Watts' career has produced on this forum.

I am by no means Jimmy's biggest fan - let's be honest, he's played 2 or 3 good games in his career, and has had more brain fades than he has eaten hot dinners in that time.

But I'm also conscious of the limiting factors in his career thus far. His first year was basically a write-off due to those hip surgeries and that maniac Neeld sucking all the life out of the club. Still he managed 10-odd games. Last year was not much better - hardly the environment for a kid coming from behind the 8-ball to succeed in.

What Melbourne supporters have done, IMO, is project all our fears of failed draft picks onto Jimmy, without giving him any time to find his feet. Of course it doesn't help that Wines is already an A-grader, but we made our bed so we have to lay in it now. Not all draftees develop at the same pace! No doubt most realise this, but my issue is that people are so quick to jump on and give him a whack. He strung together 3 solid games in a row, then regressed a little against Geelong and was subbed off, then people called for his head again. So what! He's not going to improve by going back to Casey after one poor game.

As I have said all year, he needs a consistent run of games at AFL level to find his feet. He's getting that, despite each week's Changes thread being full of people wanting him dropped - even after the Saints game where he may well have been in the votes.

This is why myself and others probably look like Watts/Toumpas fan-boys on here - I, for one, try not to yell DROP TOUMPAS HE'S USELESS in the heat of the moment after yet another bad loss. I'm trying to smooth out the roller-coaster a little, where others seem intent on swinging as wildly as possible from side to side on these issues. Of course that is how the internet works, but thankfully the club does not work the same way as BigFooty.

I would challenge all those on the Toumpas bashing bandwagon to look at things with a little more balance, and indeed find other players or issues to dissect instead of reaching straight for the easy stuff. Rage about a terrible coach-killing turnover, sure, but think for a second whether he should actually be dropped/delisted/traded for that incident before calling for his head. Same goes for Watts bashers.
DROP CAPTAIN JACK HE'S USELESS.
 

Tempy Tiger

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Comments definitely aren't aimed singularly at you mate (or Cannon), this will be a point made for the entire board.

You've been posting well about footy issues - even a lot of your stuff on Toump is valid.



Off course you can and should debate a players strengths and weaknesses.

It's not about what player is being targeted, it's about the type of targeting - Watts and especially Toump are just convenient examples.
The thought police are coming! Run for your lives! Jimmy you are a wonderful player with sublime skills and decision making.
 
The thought police are coming! Run for your lives! Jimmy you are a wonderful player with sublime skills and decision making.
Literally nobody on this forum thinks that.

Calling on Mrs Toumpas to provide the exception to that rule.
 
The thought police are coming! Run for your lives! Jimmy you are a wonderful player with sublime skills and decision making.

I'm just like the rest of us mate, waiting for Toump to consistently show flashes at least.

That doesn't mean we're going to accept the kind of rubbish which has been served up on this board too often recently.
 
Long time reader, rare poster. Wanted to have my two cents.

There's nothing wrong with having a strong opinion, but all too often - especially with Watts and Toumpas - it doesn't go both ways.

Toumpas will have two ineffectual game in a row and people will call him a terrible player, awful pick, soft as butter etc. Hell, they've been doing it since Wines carved us up in their respective debuts. The facts are that these are just buzz words, appropriate in the heat of the moment but absolutely invalid as unbiased analysis.

Toumpas had five really solid weeks before a massive game against St Kilda, but people don't offer nearly enough praise compared to vitriol.

What's the point of being a supporter if you (and I'm not saying it's necessarily you) get your biggest kicks off throwing the toys out of the pram and criticising the players who represent the footy club you love?

Best example above, see Watts and Crimson Azure. Three good games in a row: "Show me ten more and I'll praise you". One horrible game: "**** you Jack Watts" *bronx cheering in the first half etc.

I'm a lurker here and not much of a contributor, but the numbers on this board have dropped significantly from when I started reading.

I guess what bothers me is the handful of posters who are constitutionally unable to let a positive post about Watts or Toumpas stand without having to smack it down. That just about defines a "basher" in my book. It's a reflex, or a compulsion, but it certainly doesn't involve any thought.

The height of pathetic was when "Saint" came on a few pages back & said some intelligent & constructive things about Watts, and that he doesn't deserve the massive amount of crap he gets. The gang just couldn't help themselves & proved his point brilliantly. Just not capable of reading any positivity about Watts without being compelled to smack it down.

It's the compulsive quality that stamps it as "bashing" rather than reasonable criticism.

Thank you both for your feedback, you've both expressed your concerns respectfully. As moderators on the board we value this however please understand this is not the thread for this sort of discussion.

We have a feedback thread (which I've bumped) if you wish to add anything further.

To all posters: please keep it on topic for now on.
 
Well his role has changed bit, he's played pretty much excessively as a wingman since his famous self drop, not chopping and changing positions every week now. May he remain there, it clearly suits his game the best.
 
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