4th biggest club in Melbourne

[Dirty Bird]

Another stat I was surprised in when going through crowds was how Hawthorn-Carlton compared against interstate teams, and it made me wonder, which club is actually bigger.

Here's the stats

Non-Victorian team - Carl crowd - Haw crowd
Adelaide - 32,419 - 33,524
Brisbane - 25,977 - 35,492
Fremantle - 30,457 - 43,583
Gold Coast - N/A - 17,243
GWS - 25,008 - 17,904
Port Adelaide - 24,640 - 27,532
Sydney - 36,942 - 54,725
West Coast - 31,005 - 32,567

With the exception of GWS, Hawthorn has a bigger crowd vs each and every interstate team in their last home matchup. This is ignoring any game played at Aurora too for fairness.

So, with those stats there in front of you. Which is the 4th biggest?

 

[Ashton Agar]

Assuming Collingwood, Essendon and Richmond are the first three?

Carlton are fourth for me. We were the traditional big 4, Hawthorn aren't traditionally a big club.

 

[Jade's_]

Another stat I was surprised in when going through crowds was how Hawthorn-Carlton compared against interstate teams, and it made me wonder, which club is actually bigger.

Here's the stats

Non-Victorian team - Carl crowd - Haw crowd
Adelaide - 32,419 - 33,524
Brisbane - 25,977 - 35,492
Fremantle - 30,457 - 43,583
Gold Coast - N/A - 17,243
GWS - 25,008 - 17,904
Port Adelaide - 24,640 - 27,532
Sydney - 36,942 - 54,725
West Coast - 31,005 - 32,567

With the exception of GWS, Hawthorn has a bigger crowd vs each and every interstate team in their last home matchup. This is ignoring any game played at Aurora too for fairness.

So, with those stats there in front of you. Which is the 4th biggest?

One team has been a premiership contender the other also fans. Reverse the two sides ladder positions and hawthorn would be on a par with st Kilda crowd wise

 

[The Blue Baggers]

well a few facts ...

carlton has drawn bigger crowds than richmond ... this decade, this century, last 50 years, since richmond joined the league ... over

carlton has a much bigger social network following than richmond .. facebook , twitter

carlton has the 2nd biggest afl membership behind collingwood

carlton is 3rd is crowds >80k, crowds >70k,

carlton is closer to essendon for 2nd than either richmond or the hawks are to blues for 3rd ...

since the blues / bombers have had similar draws Docklands / MCG there crowd figures are even stevens

 

[Ashton Agar]

well a few facts ...

carlton has drawn bigger crowds than richmond ... this decade, this century, last 50 years, since richmond joined the league ... over

carlton has a much bigger social network following than richmond .. facebook , twitter

carlton has the 2nd biggest afl membership behind collingwood

carlton is 3rd is crowds >80k, crowds >70k,

carlton is closer to essendon for 2nd than either richmond or the hawks are to blues for 3rd ...

since the blues / bombers have had similar draws Docklands / MCG there crowd figures are even stevens

I always had it Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond in that order.

The crowd numbers are affected by us and Carlton playing more games at Etihad.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

I always had it Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond in that order.

The crowd numbers are affected by us and Carlton playing more games at Etihad.

and you would be correct

truth is if you take the nos over a generation the hawks are in the mid range with the saints and geelong

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

well a few facts ...

carlton has drawn bigger crowds than richmond ... this decade, this century, last 50 years, since richmond joined the league ... over

carlton has a much bigger social network following than richmond .. facebook , twitter

carlton has the 2nd biggest afl membership behind collingwood

carlton is 3rd is crowds >80k, crowds >70k,

carlton is closer to essendon for 2nd than either richmond or the hawks are to blues for 3rd ...

since the blues / bombers have had similar draws Docklands / MCG there crowd figures are even stevens

Every year Richmond have made finals they've outdrawn Carlton easily.

Richmond have more supporters. More paid members and not to mention Richmond have been terribly mismanaged for over 25 years so the margin could have easily been bigger.

Richmond were also the first Australian sporting club to draw more than 1 million people in one year.

Last year Richmond played one less game than Carlton and still outdrew them. Averaged more than 4,000 people at each game.

This year, regardless of how unbelievably terrible were going, we're still easily outdrawing Carlton and have more than 15,000 extra members. Don't know why you think Carlton's bigger.

Your heart says Carlton's bigger because you're biased, but the stats say Richmond is bigger. When (if, hell probably never) Richmond consistently make finals, they'll be strides ahead of Carlton. They already are now.

 

[dinger]

If you're talking about crowd numbers, Hawthorn. If you're talking about actual success, take out Richmond and Carlton who haven't seen a taste of it since the inception of the AFL and chuck in the Hawks and Geelong.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

In terms of size I'd have have for Vic teams

Collingwood
Richmond
.
.
Essendon
.
Hawthorn Carlton
Geelong
.
.
Melbourne St Kilda
North
Bulldogs

For whatever reason I've never seen Carlton as a massive club other than their success which for all intensive purposes was a while ago. I remember being at the elimination final last year and I reckon the ratio of Richmond to Carlton supporters was 5:1. Hawthorn has grown massively in the last decade but will that go back down when we have a lean period? Who knows. I'd have them about equal in size with the Cats just behind

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

When it comes to success, it goes like this...


Hawthorn













Everyone else















Fremantle
Richmond

 

[The Blue Baggers]

this decade

collingwood 4,966k
essendon 4,132k
carlton 4,082k
richmond 3,640k
hawks 3,576k
geelong 3,413k

this century

collingwood 16,034k
essendon 14,451k
carlton 12,765k
richmond 12,194k
hawks 11,146k
geelong 10,580k

since 1970

collingwood 39,249
essendon 34,494
carlton 32,955
richmond 31,416k
hawks 26,532k
geelong 26,001

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Every year Richmond have made finals they've outdrawn Carlton easily.

Richmond have more supporters. More paid members and not to mention Richmond have been terribly mismanaged for over 25 years so the margin could have easily been bigger.

Richmond were also the first Australian sporting club to draw more than 1 million people in one year.

Last year Richmond played one less game than Carlton and still outdrew them. Averaged more than 4,000 people at each game.

This year, regardless of how unbelievably terrible were going, we're still easily outdrawing Carlton and have more than 15,000 extra members. Don't know why you think Carlton's bigger.

Your heart says Carlton's bigger because you're biased, but the stats say Richmond is bigger. When (if, hell probably never) Richmond consistently make finals, they'll be strides ahead of Carlton. They already are now.

refer above for stats SFB

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

refer above for stats SFB

You look at decades, well Richmond have made finals once in 13 years. So you're manipulating stats to suit your argument.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

You look at decades, well Richmond have made finals once in 13 years. So you're manipulating stats to suit your argument.

answer another question how carlton generated $1m more in membership despite having "15k" less members ...

fyi - its a rhetorical question

 

[Dirty Bird]

I always had it Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond in that order.

The crowd numbers are affected by us and Carlton playing more games at Etihad.

The stats I'm looking at are vs Non-Victorian teams only.
And considering the largest ever H&A Vic vs Non-Vic attendance in Vic is less than the capacity of Etihad. The ground size is a non-factor in this comparison.

 

[Dirty Bird]

In terms of size I'd have have for Vic teams

Collingwood
Richmond
.
.
Essendon
.
Hawthorn Carlton
Geelong
.
.
Melbourne St Kilda
North
Bulldogs

For whatever reason I've never seen Carlton as a massive club other than their success which for all intensive purposes was a while ago. I remember being at the elimination final last year and I reckon the ratio of Richmond to Carlton supporters was 5:1. Hawthorn has grown massively in the last decade but will that go back down when we have a lean period? Who knows. I'd have them about equal in size with the Cats just behind

I'd probably drop Saints to North levels, and bring Rich back a little too. But the rest is backed up by statistics just about.

 

[eth-dog]

Collingwood
Essendon





Carlton
Richmond

 

[The Blue Baggers]

The stats I'm looking at are vs Non-Victorian teams only.
And considering the largest ever H&A Vic vs Non-Vic attendance in Vic is less than the capacity of Etihad. The ground size is a non-factor in this comparison.

Crap ... Crowd nos are determined by ladder position.

3 years ago Carlton drew 45k , 3 weeks in a row v interstate clubs @ docklands

Same games this year would draw only 30k

 

[Dirty Bird]

Crap ... Crowd nos are determined by ladder position.

3 years ago Carlton drew 45k , 3 weeks in a row v interstate clubs @ docklands

Same games this year would draw only 30k

Crap ...
3 years ago Carlton's maximum crowd vs an interstate club was 43k.

And if crowds are determined by ladder position, please explain to me this.

2011 - Carlton 5th vs Adelaide 11th - 37k
2013 - Carlton 13th vs Adelaide 8th - 44k

 

[Rioli magic]

Richmond

Carlton 5th.

 

[bombersfan4000]

well a few facts ...

carlton has drawn bigger crowds than richmond ... this decade, this century, last 50 years, since richmond joined the league ... over

carlton has a much bigger social network following than richmond .. facebook , twitter

carlton has the 2nd biggest afl membership behind collingwood

carlton is 3rd is crowds >80k, crowds >70k,

carlton is closer to essendon for 2nd than either richmond or the hawks are to blues for 3rd ...

since the blues / bombers have had similar draws Docklands / MCG there crowd figures are even stevens

i pretty much agree with you, but richmond for the best part of 30 years have been s**t.

im sure if they got a roll on and won a grand final, many fans would come out of the woodwork

 

[bombersfan4000]

Richmond

Carlton 5th.

hawthorn are only up there because of their Golden run. as its said "all good things eventuraly come to an end" so when they slide down the ladder, their fans will drop off, similar to the st kilda

 

[Rioli magic]

hawthorn are only up there because of their Golden run. as its said "all good things eventuraly come to an end" so when they slide down the ladder, their fans will drop off, similar to the st kilda

So we just ignore reality and base it on "some time in the future when things change"?

At which point, your argument will apply in reverse, as is the current situation.

Then again, maybe some of the so called 'big clubs' golden runs as you call it ended long ago, 1980, 1995, 2000, all currently non-competitive on the field and in absolute shambles off it.

Put us wherever you want in your fantasy ladder, we both know you'd rather be in our shoes.

 

[eth-dog]

So we just ignore reality and base it on "some time in the future when things change"?

At which point, your argument will apply in reverse, as is the current situation.

Then again, maybe some of the so called 'big clubs' golden runs as you call it ended long ago, 1980, 1995, 2000, all currently non-competitive on the field and in absolute shambles off it.

Put us wherever you want in your fantasy ladder, we both know you'd rather be in our shoes.

Yet we still have similar membership numbers to Hawthorn...

 

[HolyWars]

Yet we still have similar membership numbers to Hawthorn...

If you consider a 7,827 member difference similar, then yes.