A sensible discussion about Tom Scully's football

[Ohhh Errol]

There's no way any club didn't rate Cunnington top 30 before that draft.

Sure, he's had his injury issues since drafting, but that whiteboard isn't telling the full story.

exactly. thereby eliminating any 'long bows' that may be drawn because of it.

 

[Murraj1966]

I always thought that while he was a good player from what we've seen so far and will turn into a very good player, GWS threw all that money at him just to have somebody look like they want to come.

Gold Coast got a Brownlow Medallist and 2 time Premiership player.
GWS got a player with potential.

 

[unstable punt]

Will win a brownlow within 5 years.

no he won't, overrated big time.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Are you directing that at any Melbourne supporter in this thread? Or if we say Dusty or Trenners will be overall better do you think we really just mean Tom to is a 's**t footballer'?

Given the subject matter I'm surprised your post isn't applicable but it seems we are being sensible and showing Tom respect.

There are a number of Melb posters that shoot him down at every opportunity. And I mean shoot him down as opposed to just rate Trenners or Dusty above him. That's a subjective opinion and none of us will know the end result for many years to come (and even then it may not be clear cut). But to blatantly call him overrated etc... is just plain wrong and is based on bias as opposed to rational thought.

 

[Haggard H]

He's a terrific player, and injuries permitting I would think he'll be the best from his draft, which considering the next two blokes, would make for a sensational career.

And I think the injury issue has been exaggerated by Melbourne supporters who are rightfully pissed off by his move, one that will set them back a long way.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Will be competing with Cotchin for Brownlows in the next 2 to 3 years.

Very easy for other recruiters to come out with rubbish about who they would've risked pick 1 on.

..highly doubtful.. .... ..you've still got the older players like Judd, Swan, Gazza, Goodes, Bartel, Hodge that would be strong showing for the brownlow.. ..others too for sure.. ..and then mids coming into their primes such as Selwood, Murphy, Pendlebury, Kennedy [swans], Priddis, etc..

..next few years GWS won't be close to winning enough games, and he'll also need to be playing very close to full seasons as well..

 

[Bigeasy]

Scully is also a very smart footballer who makes smart decisions. Once he fills out then you'll see a jet.

 

[symmsy]

Should be a good player but not worth the money

 

[Cudi_420]

Should be a good player. Not worth the money yet, paid 100% based purely on potential and nothing more. Otherwise he'd be earning $150-$200k this year. Ridiculous amount of money.

But he most likely we'll be a champion of the league.

 

[Tulip]

Perhaps we can give the bloke more than two (one of them injury interrupted) seasons before writing him off?

Who wrote him off?

 

[Danair]

no he won't, overrated big time.

Yeah he suddenly became overrated when he joined GWS.

 

[Tulip]

I don't think that photo is real

Yeah, somebody though a photoshop of North Melbourne's draft rankings would be a right pisser

 

[Axle17]

Will be a great player, given the right team.
GWS showed the other night, the oldies aren't required.
Why GWS put so much effort into recruiting Palmer, Davis, Ward etc is beyond me.
They should have made Scully captain from the get go. Given him all the responsibility and the consequences that follow. Its the only way he'll grow.
Right now, he's probably thinking, "this is too easy!"
Bad stat from my point of view.

 

[Tulip]

Put me down in the 'Scully will be a gun' camp. I'm certain he is better than Trengove. If Martin ends up better it won't be because Scully wasn't really good, it'll be because Martin has exceeded.

Scully was right at number 1.

I'm certain Scully will be awesome, but I still think that he mas much to prove to say he's as good as Trengove now. No integrity and half the heart, Jack would have taken charge on Saturday night and not left it to his teammates who he's paid 1. something mil a year to protect and lead

 

[Lemma]

Yeah, somebody though a photoshop of North Melbourne's draft rankings would be a right pisser

Could be a photo of anyone's draft rankings. Does it say North Melbourne anywhere?

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

..the main difficulty with having a sensible discussion about his football, is the fact that he'll never be worth the contract he's being paid.. ..in fact, he'll be lucky to have 'earned' half of it.. ....perhaps down the track he might be a 1mil. a year type player.. ..but that's highly doubtful,, since he'd have to get into Judd/Gazza territory and those two are undeniable champions of the game and right at the top of the onballer category..

..the 3 biggest trade/poach/dollar signings of recent times are Judd, Gazza, and Scully..

Judd - brownlow, norm smith and prem captain at time of trade, regarded as elite by the competition,, has been able to deliver first class football ever since and has had a huge impact at the blues, has a 2nd brownlow.

Gazza - 2 time prem player, brownlow and champ of the game at time of trade, has like Judd been enormous in his 1st year at the new club, huge obvious impact.

Scully - nada. he's still very young and inexperienced. will take time/pre-seasons to be able to try and emulate Judd/Gazza. May very well take most of the time of his initial contract to get to their level, if he ever does. Their level is right at the very peak afterall.

..when you also consider that he's only got 2 years, and some games ahead of all of GWS' young recruited 'guns', his slightly younger team-mates could be as good as him midway thru his megabucks offer.. ..i doubt his football will ever match the dollars of this first gws contract, it will be even worse if he actually 'comes back home' after that first bigbucks contract, he's already proven that he's 'open to all offers'.... ..he's got to play out of his skin week in, week out to ultimately justify his contract.. ..this will skew opinions of his football..

 

[GoTheSwannies]

..the main difficulty with having a sensible discussion about his football, is the fact that he'll never be worth the contract he's being paid.. ..in fact, he'll be lucky to have 'earned' half of it.. ....perhaps down the track he might be a 1mil. a year type player.. ..but that's highly doubtful,, since he'd have to get into Judd/Gazza territory and those two are undeniable champions of the game and right at the top of the onballer category..

..the 3 biggest trade/poach/dollar signings of recent times are Judd, Gazza, and Scully..

Judd - brownlow, norm smith and prem captain at time of trade, regarded as elite by the competition,, has been able to deliver first class football ever since and has had a huge impact at the blues, has a 2nd brownlow.

Gazza - 2 time prem player, brownlow and champ of the game at time of trade, has like Judd been enormous in his 1st year at the new club, huge obvious impact.

Scully - nada. he's still very young and inexperienced. will take time/pre-seasons to be able to try and emulate Judd/Gazza. May very well take most of the time of his initial contract to get to their level, if he ever does. Their level is right at the very peak afterall.

..when you also consider that he's only got 2 years, and some games ahead of all of GWS' young recruited 'guns', his slightly younger team-mates could be as good as him midway thru his megabucks offer.. ..i doubt his football will ever match the dollars of this first gws contract, it will be even worse if he actually 'comes back home' after that first bigbucks contract, he's already proven that he's 'open to all offers'.... ..he's got to play out of his skin week in, week out to ultimately justify his contract.. ..this will skew opinions of his football..

I find that argument a little flawed (with all due respect). Comparing him to Ablett & Judd is a little harsh, sure he's on the same money but there are a couple of reasons why he can't be compared to those 2.

1. He's been recruited at a different point in his career. GWS have deliberately recruited a player in a young age bracket to grow with their team so there's always going to be pressure on Scully to reach that level but it's obviously not guaranteed, just a reasoned gamble.

2. We shouldn't be so fixated on the amount of money offered. I'm sure GWS threw that offer out to several players. Scully was just the best option (within their targeted age bracket) that was willing to take the cash. So it's not that GWS offered the money because they believed Scully was worth that amount, they threw that money out there because they needed a big name recruit and Scully was able to tick enough boxes, and more importantly, was willing to take the offer.

With Judd, he was always going to command a huge salary. He was headed back to Melbourne, was a gun player & alot of teams wanted to sign him. He made the move at the right time once he had esablished himself as a genuine superstar of the competition. He was in a great position to negotiate and was rewarded accordingly.

With Ablett, it was a case of perfect timing, perfect circumstances. He was at his peak, had already achieved ultimate success with Geelong and the salary cap was weighing down heavily on them. When GC entered the market, the big money on offer was a once in a lifetime opportunity. With GWS following, the gloss has come off the big money contracts, it's almost become commonplace over the last 2 years.

There's alot of pressure on GWS to land the big names, and they have to throw bucket loads of money out there to ensure they sign someone. Scully really has benefitted from a bare market, he may not live up to the hype, but I don't think it's fair to hold his performances up to that amount. It's just not a "buyers" market at the moment.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

..^^^^^^^^^..

....i understand your points, and agree with many regarding the circumstances around the signing of Scully.. .... ..however, he now has to repay the faith sown in him.. ..and that faith has a certain dollar amount tied to it.. ..there's a number of reasons why GWS had to paid overs, these reasons still need to be justified at the end of the day though.. ..every contract amount has it's reasons, Scully is on the very elite type money.. ..ultimately he has to get close to that level season in, season out.. ..it's what he's getting paid for.. ..all that potential can't just stay potential..

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Sporting clubs dont pay players based on "what they are worth", they pay players based on "what they need to pay to get/keep them" and assess thier value to the organisation that way.

This means some players will get paid less than what they are worth because they will be prepared to accept less, and some will get paid more because they are better negotiators or need to be prised from somehwere else.

It would be very rare for sporting organistions that the list of best paid players to lowest paid players would correspond with the list of best to worst players.

So for Scully he doesnt need to be the same level as Judd/Ablett to provide the same "value for money" that Judd/Ablett do to thier clubs, especially as GWS have money they have to spend somewhere, so the value of thier $$ in the first few years is less than other clubs who need to spread thier payments more evenly.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Sporting clubs dont pay players based on "what they are worth", they pay players based on "what they need to pay to get/keep them" and assess thier value to the organisation that way.

This means some players will get paid less than what they are worth because they will be prepared to accept less, and some will get paid more because they are better negotiators or need to be prised from somehwere else.

It would be very rare for sporting organistions that the list of best paid players to lowest paid players would correspond with the list of best to worst players.

So for Scully he doesnt need to be the same level as Judd/Ablett to provide the same "value for money" that Judd/Ablett do to thier clubs, especially as GWS have money they have to spend somewhere, so the value of thier $$ in the first few years is less than other clubs who need to spread thier payments more evenly.

..i can dig that, but you still wanna get a damn good product for what you're paying, otherwise it wasn't worth the extra $$ spent to entice it over in the first place..

 

[GoTheSwannies]

I'm sure GWS would have their fingers crossed that Scully becomes a premier player of the competition but if they're expecting Ablett/Judd then there's a big chance they'll be disappointed. If he becomes a top 10 player in the comp then it's a big win for GWS, if he's top 20 it would probably be acceptable, anything less and they start losing imo.

I'm sure there's a way to work out how much the GC/GWS recruits are really worth. If you look at what their previous clubs were willing to offer and perhaps add 10% that another regular club may have offered (or whatever figure is usually offered to opposition players), then you'll get the players true value. And I think Scully, and the others should be judged on that value, rather than the inflated offer from the new franchises. But obviously the media will hold Scully to his GWS price tag because it makes for a better story.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

..i can dig that, but you still wanna get a damn good product for what you're paying, otherwise it wasn't worth the extra $$ spent to entice it over in the first place..

To some degree your right, but Sporting clubs (especially AFL) generally operate within a closed market, so you can only go after the limited stock that is available, and if your in a position where it is compulsory to spend a certain $$ value then you just need to spend that money on the best player available regardless of percieved "value" relative to the rest of the competition.

 

[Axle17]

Who knows what the GWS's intentions were in signing Scully..
Could be to increase membership + supporter base over the coming years?
As has already been said, Scully wont be judged on his output, to justify his price tag, nor will he have to.
GWS are aware they're a long way behind other clubs already.

I think it was more the fact that they required a marquee player, that's already well recognized within the game, to promote their brand.
Right now GWS's priority list:
1) Marketing
2) Profitability
3) Winning Premierships
And I don't believe for a second GWS looked at Scully and saw a Judd or Ablett type player. Thats just ludicrous!

 

[the woodsmen2010]

if they wanted marketing they should have drafted fev...lol would have been hell cheaper and is known by most people, even in sydney..

 

[IanW]

Axel17,

Completely wrong.

The first priority is to build a club culture that will allow the kids to develop into good footballers.

If that succeeds, then they will have the playing talent to compete by year three.

The second priority is to get players who will still be playing good football once this happens.

The third priority is to get players will will give relentless effort over four quarters, because in those three years determination is going to have to substitute for AFL-hardened bodies.

So far, so good, but theres always next week.