A thread on politics- have some balls and post

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POBT said:
I think privatisation is potentially a good thing if done properly. I am a believer in the productivity of the private sector

However, it should be done on favourable terms and, ideally, the gains would be re-invested in something that builds the state's ability to maintain economic development.
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Theoretically, I agree. But do you have any faith in this government's ability to privatise according to those terms?

I simply don't trust their motives, reinforced by just about everything they've done in the last 3 years.
 
Privatisation works when a commodity can be truly be shared in a competitive market place*.
There will only ever be X amount of electricity, water, rail and telecommunication providers though, for example. There may be many retailers, but the producer has a monopoly, or at best duopoly. There is no incentive to do or sell anything more efficiently, in fact the state is held to ransom.

Australia's airlines were opened to deregulation and privatisation, and sure, prices plummeted, but at what expense? Airports can't cope because they are so far removed from the airlines, and safety and service has become a concern due to the competition. (Service especially, #amirite Cousin Jed ?)
 
Skoob said:
Privatisation works when a commodity can be truly be shared in a competitive market place*.
There will only ever be X amount of electricity, water, rail and telecommunication providers though, for example. There may be many retailers, but the producer has a monopoly, or at best duopoly. There is no incentive to do or sell anything more efficiently, in fact the state is held to ransom.

Australia's airlines were opened to deregulation and privatisation, and sure, prices plummeted, but at what expense? Airports can't cope because they are so far removed from the airlines, and safety and service has become a concern due to the competition. (Service especially, #amirite Cousin Jed ?)
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That's what irks me about people comparing asset "leasing" to renting out an investment property.

It is more akin to selling the house you live in because you don't like having to pay your mortgage, then having to rent it back from the new owner...and it is the only available house in town.

What could possibly go wrong?
 

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POBT said:
It is pretty brazen. Either Newman doesn't care what people who don't vote for him think or he didn't realise the magnitude of what he was saying.

Or both.
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I think he knew EXACTLY what he was saying. He wasn't wanted or expected to be leader at the last election (by his own party) and now faces a very real possibility of losing his seat. This is a last ditch "vote for me or you're doomed" strategy.
Ironically, I think it's the most honest he's been. "We won't help you, if you don't vote for us".
 
whatboutbob said:
That's what irks me about people comparing asset "leasing" to renting out an investment property.

It is more akin to selling the house you live in because you don't like having to pay your mortgage, then having to rent it back from the new owner...and it is the only available house in town.

What could possibly go wrong?
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Pretty much (good analogy), and they could have got away with that if it were a 30 year lease (still would not support) but 99 years is a couple of lifetimes, that's a sale, because whilst I can't see into the future, I certainly can't see the state getting them back in a hundred years.
 
Anyway, a week to go and then debate will be futile (mostly). I just cannot understand anyone supporting this lot. Fiscal policy, blah, blah, yeah, the ALP's economics bother me too, but this lot don't have it figured out by a long shot, and have zero social conscience to boot.:thumbsdown:
 
Skoob said:
Pretty much (good analogy), and they could have got away with that if it were a 30 year lease (still would not support) but 99 years is a couple of lifetimes, that's a sale, because whilst I can't see into the future, I certainly can't see the state getting them back in a hundred years.
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I assume you know the government will, at the end of the lease, have to pay for any infrastructure investment the lessees make. After 99 (or 50) years, that's gonna be a hell of a bill. It is a sale by another name.
 
whatboutbob said:
I assume you know the government will, at the end of the lease, have to pay for any infrastructure investment the lessees make. After 99 (or 50) years, that's gonna be a hell of a bill. It is a sale by another name.
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Oh yeah, part & parcel of any such lease. To use your analogy, any coats of paint or new taps and carpet must be paid for when you get the house back.
 
Skoob said:
Oh yeah, part & parcel of any such lease. To use your analogy, any coats of paint or new taps and carpet must be paid for when you get the house back.
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Yeah, except given the nature of the assets,we're not talking small change like a new lick of paint. The lessees are likely to replace whole rooms and add extensions, which they'll tack on to the rent, then double dip by expecting you to pay for it again at the end of the lease.
 
whatboutbob said:
Yeah, except given the nature of the assets,we're not talking small change like a new lick of paint. The lessees are likely to replace whole rooms and add extensions, which they'll tack on to the rent, then double dip by expecting you to pay for it again at the end of the lease.
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Yep. Once they are leased, they are gone. In 99 years, the only option will be to find a buyer or new lessee, and to make that viable, we'll still be paying a fair chunk.
 
Viceregal said:
I would like to think that in 99 years we won't be using the same kind of power transmission infrastructure etc ... so what happens if in say, 20 years, they develop some kind of power system that run completely different from the current one?
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What, in Queensland? Or Australia for that matter? I guess we could hope for wholesale changes of government.
Alternative power sources will still need to be harnessed and delivered through an electricity network. Even if it becomes affordable for homes and businesses to generate their own power, I think it's a bit premature to be flogging things off on the premise that they might one day be redundant.
 

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Stilll undecided about where to vote next Saturday. I can't trust the LNP, (although I'm a traditional Liberal voter), I'm cannot trust the ALP, nor the Greens, nor Clive, not the ASP....

I honestly feel that this is an election is going to suck! Not saything that others have been any better... but I just don't feel very inspired or trusting of the visions of any of the candidates.
 
Chezzalenko Reborn said:
Stilll undecided about where to vote next Saturday. I can't trust the LNP, (although I'm a traditional Liberal voter), I'm cannot trust the ALP, nor the Greens, nor Clive, not the ASP....

I honestly feel that this is an election is going to suck! Not saything that others have been any better... but I just don't feel very inspired or trusting of the visions of any of the candidates.
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You lack a strong choice Chezza.
 
Which makes me wonder when will the next strong candidate from either party come from. I have to admit, during my young days I was drawn to Peter Beattie as a strong leader (I remember the very positive campaign they ran with 'Today's Labor' but then again I was a kid so I was quick to drink their poison).

Like many Australians, I was charmed the crap out of by Rudd.... who turned out to be a dud.....

I really don't know anymore. I used to be fascinated and interested in politics, but since the Abbotts and the Gillards emerged onto the scene Ivé really lost faith in any leader. No one really appeals to me at all at the moment.

Newman I believe has lost all trust by the LNPs aggressive reforms. And I haven't seen anything to be all that inspired by Annastacia Palaszczuk or the ALP.
 
Hard for the ALP to inspire people and present a credible opposition when they are barely represented at parliamentary level. Admittedly this is to a significant degree their fault, but it's ultimately the result of one of the biggest and most breathtaking overreactions by an electorate in Australian history.

Some of the reasons used by people to turn against the ALP at the last election seem almost trivial when we see what is at stake in this election. The Courier Mail is of course a big player. They absolutely ran the ALP out of town... howling about Credit Ratings and reckless spending and the readers simply did what they were told.

The same paper is trying to cultivate the illusion that they are putting the LNP under the same scrutiny but they simply aren't. Again, the ALP weren't managing the state's finances brilliantly but the fact is, almost all the economic indicators have worsened under the LNP who came in with a promise the "clean up the mess". Hell, the LNP haven't even had any GFCs, floods or cyclones to deal with either. The LNP are being criticised by the media for their social policies and their lack of transparency and accountability, because they are simply so egregious that they can't be ignored, but in terms of the economic side, why isn't the media howling "what in the living * are these people doing?"

The "it will take time to fix Labor's legacy" excuses are past their used by date. They would hold some weight if the LNP were implementing major structural reforms ala Keating and Hawke but they aren't.

Let's face it, the LNP are getting a second term, but this is clearly a government that absolutely needs:

1. A big, throbbing bleeding nose at the ballot box; and
2. A credible, well represented opposition.

I am voting accordingly.
 
pretty well summed up by TBD. Like Chez i am mostly a lib voter, not because of blind faith in a party, but my values just always seemed to line up better with them. I had a good look through policies at the last election and i was pretty much split between the LNP and ALP policies for the first time i can remember. Ive never had faith in Abbott as any kind of leader, and for me he lead far too much by his religious beliefs. Having Newman in at the same time has been crippling to the state.

They had such control of the state, won so many seats, all they had to do was play it cool and set themselves up for their second term. Instead they went stupid trying to do too much and have shot themselves in both feet. Sheer weight of numbers will probably keep them in, but they need a big scare.

It is a pity Labour dont have a stronger leader to really give people another option to go for. There has been too much flip flopping by the public over the last 10 years just voting the current mob out instead of voting someone in.

Id love some stable government for 2-3 terms, but i dont trust Newman and Abbott with that long in charge.
 
I have no real problem with newspapers declaring they are for 1 party or another and writing accordingly. I'd prefer they remained as unbiased as possible and gave both sides an even run but, if they feel the need to support one side over the other, then be honest and declare it up front and daily - almost like a paid advertisement.

The Courier Mail is an embarrassment to us all with its coverage of politics. Newman has been on the front page of just about every weekend edition for the last month with flattering photos and supportive headlines. The only time I recall the ALP even getting a mention was an unflattering photo of their leader with a headline about a supposed budget black hole.

Unfortunately, the majority of people still see it as a trusted source of information and won't think critically to work out what is really going on.
 
LNP will win but will lose a few seats, will scare them. Wouldn't be surprised to see no Palmer United elected. First year I can vote so I am pretty excited.
 
Billy Puller said:
LNP will win but will lose a few seats, will scare them. Wouldn't be surprised to see no Palmer United elected. First year I can vote so I am pretty excited.
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Have a few cones to settle your nerves before you go in Billy. You'll be fine.
 
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