Academies - What would be considered a success?

[Ichabod Noodle]

Is it fair that a successful club like Sydney gets all these advantages after recently winning a premiership?

That game can be played all day but how exactly does Sydney suffer? They generally don't lose players they want to keep, at least compared to the normal rate of movement, that have proven to be able to attract the most elite talent, recent success, financially strong. What part of the ledger needs to be balanced?

I keep going back to Sydney because you stated 'the northern clubs'. I have no issue with GWS and GCS getting something significant.

The academies are about growing the game across the whole of the northern states. If you only let GC & GWS have them, and not Sydney or Brisbane, who looks after the areas not covered by the first two? Heaney came from Newcastle - not a GWS area. So who puts the development into these areas? The VFL/AFL haven't bothered for a hundred years. We come along and put the effort in and start producing results.

But all four clubs need to work at this to grow the game, not just the newbies.

 

[Lethality]

If the host club gets the player for a lower pick if a trade isn't reached, they have no incentive to trade.

There would be safeguards put in place for that, I'm just proposing the method.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

The academies are about growing the game across the whole of the northern states. If you only let GC & GWS have them, and not Sydney or Brisbane, who looks after the areas not covered by the first two? Heaney came from Newcastle - not a GWS area. So who puts the development into these areas? The VFL/AFL haven't bothered for a hundred years. We come along and put the effort in and start producing results.

But all four clubs need to work at this to grow the game, not just the newbies.

It's still meant to be a professional competition, I can't think of any other sporting competition in the world where a handful of clubs have such major advantages over the rest of the league.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

It's still meant to be a professional competition, I can't think of any other sporting competition in the world where a handful of clubs have such major advantages over the rest of the league.

It's not a major advantage. It's an effort to overcome a century of disadvantage.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

It's not a major advantage. It's an effort to overcome a century of disadvantage.

A century of disadvantage...

How old are you? That's the most pathetic thing I've seen on bf.

Well done kid

 

[dlanod]

It's still meant to be a professional competition, I can't think of any other sporting competition in the world where a handful of clubs have such major advantages over the rest of the league.

There's not too many serious ones that have half the teams within an hour of each other but all the rest an hour or more's flight away, or have such a "go home" culture, or have such a strong split between areas traditionally supportive of the code and areas that are not, or require players to sign off on trades.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

A century of disadvantage...

How old are you? That's the most pathetic thing I've seen on bf.

Well done kid

46

But you're right - it's closer to a hundred and twenty years of the VFL/AFL/Powers that be ignoring the majority of my state. Leaving it undeveloped or underdeveloped.

But your response and your attitude definitely reveals the insular small minded myopic and quite frankly pathetic view of what this sport is, and what it could be.

Typical Victorian s#it who doesn't believe the game should be played north of the Murray and hates everything and everyone who tries to further the game outside your pathetic little backward state.

 

[AliceCat]

46

But you're right - it's closer to a hundred and twenty years of the VFL/AFL/Powers that be ignoring the majority of my state. Leaving it undeveloped or underdeveloped.

But your response and your attitude definitely reveals the insular small minded myopic and quite frankly pathetic view of what this sport is, and what it could be.

Typical Victorian s#it who doesn't believe the game should be played north of the Murray and hates everything and everyone who tries to further the game outside your pathetic little backward state.

Going to have to be patient mate. It'll take a couple generations before all those Victorians get on board.

Im baffled by the entire discussion around the Academies. Some people clearly don't want Aussie rules to be our national game.

 

[philthy05]

You can tell me you need academies to try to correct the home / interstate player ratio ....and I buy that as an answer ...


... But if you are telling me that you need academies to give players in the region a pathway / develop the area I would ask why the only way this is viable is if the clubs get dibs on the players. Like if they don't get dibs it's not worth their time or effort to develop kids in the area? Maybe that's true but then I would say you have the wrong people running these clubs if that's the case.

 

[go_the_dockers]

They need to
Increase percentage of home grown talent in northern states
Devolop the game at all levels in northern states.
Do not give northern states a massive advantage over other states

The 1st two Will take time, but if the advantage is too great they won't have time because the academies will be gone.

The 1st thing we need to do is stop the northern clubs trading to later picks for more points.

 

[M Malice]

There's not too many serious ones that have half the teams within an hour of each other but all the rest an hour or more's flight away, or have such a "go home" culture, or have such a strong split between areas traditionally supportive of the code and areas that are not, or require players to sign off on trades.

totally agree. australia is a unique place, having 4 footy codes and cricket all vying for the elite young talent. most other countries have 1 very dominant code ie soccer (europe, south america), and if they dont ie basketball, baseball and gridiron in the usa they have a massive population base to support them.

 

[dlanod]

You can tell me you need academies to try to correct the home / interstate player ratio ....and I buy that as an answer ...


... But if you are telling me that you need academies to give players in the region a pathway / develop the area I would ask why the only way this is viable is if the clubs get dibs on the players. Like if they don't get dibs it's not worth their time or effort to develop kids in the area? Maybe that's true but then I would say you have the wrong people running these clubs if that's the case.

The clubs have always developed kids (and the AFL) in the area, but these are professional organizations - there's a world of difference between looking after kids and looking after your kids.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

It's a rort. The idea of the draft is to ensure there is equalisation, a team on the bottom gets access to higher draft picks, that allows them to climb the ladder. Last night, Melbourne, which finished in the bottom 5, had a team in the Top 6 and one which had won a flag as recently as 2012, get a higher pick than Melbourne.

That defeats the purpose of the draft.

Did you have the same concerns when you were given priority picks, when the second worst team got the third best pick ?
Were you worried about the implication when Scully got the same compensation as Gary Ablett?
We're you concerned about the integrarity of the Draft when you got Jack Viney for pick 26, when Port bid pick 7?
What about the time you pre-listed a highly rated junior 2012, considerably weakening the top end talent of the draft the following year?
How about the generous compensation for Frawley?
Not to mention Tyson and Bugg as well, As this is one of the main reason why the academies are in place.

Melbourne have been given nearly every compensation mechanism the AFL has, it's a little hard listening one of their supporters scream it's a rort.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

They need to
Increase percentage of home grown talent in northern states
Devolop the game at all levels in northern states.
Do not give northern states a massive advantage over other states

The 1st two Will take time, but if the advantage is too great they won't have time because the academies will be gone.

The 1st thing we need to do is stop the northern clubs trading to later picks for more points.

The trading to later picks is an interesting one, it arguably made for increased player movement elsewhere. Saints and the Bombers were at stalemate until Sydney got involved.
It potentially benefits sides like Fremantle as well, if they were agressive early they could of secured a top 10 pick. Something a top four team has had trouble doing in the past, without giving up something of decent value.

I do tent to think it does need some changing thou, something along the line of only one pick gets loaded (25%) compared to getting a discount on the whole pick. Means having a higher pick gets loaded more, and make the later picks worth their real value. It would make it harder to secure multiple academy player by cashing down too, but there's still incentive if a decent offer is made for a higher pick.

 

[philthy05]

The points could probably be tweaked a little bit. Compounding so many late picks to pick up a first round talent is a bit so so.


The interesting thing is how it worked for Brisbane.


In reality keays and hipwood could have been bid on much higher , but once mills hopper Kennedy and himmelberg were bid on it pushed a lot of picks back so it was less points.

Bris were fortunate that there was a lot of academy kids this year... They got bargains ...

 

[Cleric]

How old are you? We are ony 4 years in. You cant be that impatient

Then dont take credit for the kids coming out of traditional football areas like the riverina.

 

[go_the_dockers]

The trading to later picks is an interesting one, it arguably made for increased player movement elsewhere. Saints and the Bombers were at stalemate until Sydney got involved.
It potentially benefits sides like Fremantle as well, if they were agressive early they could of secured a top 10 pick. Something a top four team has had trouble doing in the past, without giving up something of decent value.

I do tent to think it does need some changing thou, something along the line of only one pick gets loaded (25%) compared to getting a discount on the whole pick. Means having a higher pick gets loaded more, and make the later picks worth their real value. It would make it harder to secure multiple academy player by cashing down too, but there's still incentive if a decent offer is made for a higher pick.

Hypothetically the NSW and QLD all trade out of the 1st round because they multiple academy selections that would have gone in the 1st round before there picks, it means it pushes every ones selection back.

The dockers pick 16 would become pick 20, as NSW and QLD clubs were not going to use their picks on non academy players.

Agree, the discount should only be applied to one pick.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Then dont take credit for the kids coming out of traditional football areas like the riverina.

And I'll ask again, and again, and again, whenever someone raises this... When was the last time there were 4 kids drafted from the Riverina in a single year? (With a couple of possible rookies to come on Friday)

Yes the Riverina is a stronghold for AFL, we all acknowledge that, but it has always been very hit and miss when producing high end talent. Now that the GWS Academy is in place, and we've been developing these kids since the age of 12/13 there is a marked upswing in the number of not only draft eligible players, but draft worthy players.

 

[Cleric]

Its not just about the teams, kids should also have an opportunity to play in their home state a bit more. SA and WA kids have a 9% chance of playing in their home states. Qld and NSW kids have a 99% chance of playing in their home states while Vic kids have a greater than 50% chance of playing in their home state. How about the AFL stop making SA and WA kids carry the burden of having to move interstate? But we know the AFL dont care about SA and WA.

 

[Colonial]

Its not just about the teams, kids should also have an opportunity to play in their home state a bit more. SA and WA kids have a 9% chance of playing in their home states. Qld and NSW kids have a 99% chance of playing in their home states while Vic kids have a greater than 50% chance of playing in their home state. How about the AFL stop making SA and WA kids carry the burden of having to move interstate? But we know the AFL dont care about SA and WA.

And i ask whats the ratio for home grown kids for the traditional teams?

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

Hypothetically the NSW and QLD all trade out of the 1st round because they multiple academy selections that would have gone in the 1st round before there picks, it means it pushes every ones selection back.

The dockers pick 16 would become pick 20, as NSW and QLD clubs were not going to use their picks on non academy players.

Agree, the discount should only be applied to one pick.

Understand where you coming from, but it potentially gives you access to upgrade your pick 16 which is normally hard to upgrade to a top 10.

The team that really benefits is the team trading the pick in, theacademy team gets a few extra points which is handy, but those teams can potentially turn trash into treasure, generally makes dealing with teams with academy prospects easier.

 

[TropperFarquhar]

Tithe go home factor is not a valid excuse and it's a way a club such as Brisbane has hid behind a toxic offield culture that has been the real reason players have left.

 

[Cleric]

And i ask whats the ratio for home grown kids for the traditional teams?

Geelong have as many SA kids in their team as the Crows do.
Surely you cant defend SA and WA kids having a 9% chance of playing in their home town. Especially when you have sold that ability to defend your academies.

 

[dlanod]

Its not just about the teams, kids should also have an opportunity to play in their home state a bit more. SA and WA kids have a 9% chance of playing in their home states. Qld and NSW kids have a 99% chance of playing in their home states while Vic kids have a greater than 50% chance of playing in their home state. How about the AFL stop making SA and WA kids carry the burden of having to move interstate? But we know the AFL dont care about SA and WA.

Geelong have as many SA kids in their team as the Crows do.
Surely you cant defend SA and WA kids having a 9% chance of playing in their home town. Especially when you have sold that ability to defend your academies.

A 9% chance simply isn't true. Victorian teams preferentially draft Victorian talent, and the same with SA and WA. GWS almost never drafts WA or SA talent for example. Counting all kids drafted over the last three years SA kids have a 26% chance of staying in SA, and WA kids have 30% chance of staying in WA.

Edit: The Crows are an odd team. They're actually eligible for the old retention allowance that Brisbane and Sydney used to receive because they run with such a low percentage of local talent. Very much the outlier compared to other teams in SA and WA.

 

[Colonial]

Tithe go home factor is not a valid excuse and it's a way a club such as Brisbane has hid behind a toxic offield culture that has been the real reason players have left.

Incorrect but please continue.