Opinion Adam Goodes discussion

[Mutt]

lol mutt you won't get me this time I've worked you out

Racist or not I don't pander to the part line and think for myself unlike many.

How many indigenous mates do you have? I'm betting zero so go out and meet some and then come chat to me about racist but until then keep talking about something you know nothing about, which should be pretty much anything to you

You know nothing about me. I am like many people from rural Australia - I have Yorta Yorta and Wurundjeri cousins and aunts and uncles. My wife also has even more close relatives who are Koories. I grew up with my cousins and they remain among my closest friends. They, unsurprisingly, are upset and bewildered by this sad and unthinking vilification of Adam Goodes, as am I.

 

[Mattdougie]

Your implication that people don't think for themselves is extremely offensive. People that don't agree with you just don't think for themselves? Seems legitimate.

Lol that's my whole point here

People that "think" it's racist are right but people who don't arnt?

That's what I'm saying, the whole thing is guesswork so how can it be called racist with NO evidence other than some people's opinions ?

 

[David Schwarz]

That we today have to pay for the actions of people 200 years ago

Does every German have to apologise for the holocaust forever? Americans to native Americans ?

Your German example possesses no relevance to anything being discussed whatsoever.

Native Americans are still mistreated. What are you trying to say?

Yes we accept that they haven't been treated well at all and should be aware of that and have compassion for their situation but how long do we have to apologise for?

This proves that you simply couldn't care less. "Haven't been treated well", deary me.

Two of my best friends(AJ and Marty)are indigenous and in fact one was part of my wedding party

Funny how neither of them think this is all a racist issue but 1000 do Gooder white people who actually have no idea about the real issue bang on it is.

Is that because you asked them? Or you speaking on their behalf because you didn't get a personal phone call illustrating their opposition to the booing?

Is there any reason that you have to specifically note that indigenous Australians were at your wedding party?

But I guess actually standing up and saying no this isnt racist I just think that bloke is a d!ckhead no matter what colour he is isn't acceptable unless he is white

When there's thousands of people calling Luke Hodge a white dog and that he can't talk about white issues because he doesn't do anything for the white community, then we'll discuss this absurd "point".

What is happening at the moment is wrong. The fact that it is being seen as a "debate" is nothing short of a disgrace.

If you can't see that there is something wrong with tens of thousands booing and heckling one, single Indigenous player - week in, week out - then I don't think that there's much hope for you.

 

[Mattdougie]

You know nothing about me. I am like many people from rural Australia - I have Yorta Yorta and Wurundjeri cousins and aunts and uncles. My wife also has even more close relatives who are Koories. I grew up with my cousins and they remain among my closest friends. They, unsurprisingly, are upset and bewildered by this sad and unthinking vilification of Adam Goodes, as am I.

And you know nothing about me other than assumptions

I've said from the very first minute if its racial then sort it out and punish those for it but how the hell do we know it all is and how can you punish people simply coz they don't like Goodes and that has zero to do with his colour?

Are you honestly saying that the majority are booin him on due to his colour? You HONESTLY think that?

So society can no longer boo a man of colour if they don't like him but booing white people for the same reason is ok?

 

[Some Idiot]

Because if you look at Adam Goodes body of work compared to the work 9f the others on the list for that year his is far from comparible in timespan and amount.

Google it and look at the people that were around the mark that year and their individual efforts. And that is in no way demeaning Goodes work it just stating that in comparison it's not on the same level.

i can honestly say i do not care who wins oz of the year and think at times it's a patronising Award with little merit as some people are well and truly worthy winners but then every few years they seem to throw in a "celebrity" winner.

I don't pay much attention to it, but you can't ignore the adversity that Adam Goodes faced that year, and that of course had to be taken into consideration by those giving out the award.

Ironically, part of the reason that Adam Goodes is disliked is similar to why you are disliked, because he has a differing opinion to the majority of people, and is extremely vocal about it and the majority of people aren't comfortable with that. As it happens a lot of his opinions that people don't agree with are his stances on racial issues. And that is where the racist element of the booing comes from.

 

[Mutt]

And you know nothing about me other than assumptions

I've said from the very first minute if its racial then sort it out and punish those for it but how the hell do we know it all is and how can you punish people simply coz they don't like Goodes and that has zero to do with his colour?

Are you honestly saying that the majority are booin him on due to his colour? You HONESTLY think that?

So society can no longer boo a man of colour if they don't like him but booing white people for the same reason is ok?

I'm embarrassed and saddened by some of what I read on here - your contributions in particular. You should hang your head in shame.

 

[Mattdougie]

I don't pay much attention to it, but you can't ignore the adversity that Adam Goodes faced that year, and that of course had to be taken into consideration by those giving out the award.

Ironically, part of the reason that Adam Goodes is disliked is similar to why you are disliked, because he has a differing opinion to the majority of people, and is extremely vocal about it and the majority of people aren't comfortable with that. As it happens a lot of his opinions that people don't agree with are his stances on racial issues. And that is where the racist element of the booing comes from.

But they didn't boo Michael Long or Nicky Winmar(apart from pies fans) for their own battles in bringing light to the issue ?

I guess people who boo Anthony Mundine are all racists also?

I don't doubt that SOME people boo Goodes due to racism and I believe the majority are sheep but I also believe that some that boo him simply don't like the bloke due to his attitude and the way he plays and I believe those people are more than entitled to boo him or anyone else.

The issue is working out who is who and what I'm asking is how the hell do you do that ???????

 

[Mattdougie]

I'm embarrassed and saddened by some of what I read on here - your contributions in particular. You should hang your head in shame.

Lol what have I said that's embarrassing other than you now having an issue with me again

I'm not falling for your baiting again mutt

I have not condoned racism in anyway or defended it only said that people have rights and not everyone is a racist because you think they are

 

[Some Idiot]

But they didn't boo Michael Long or Nicky Winmar(apart from pies fans) for their own battles in bringing light to the issue ?

I guess people who boo Anthony Mundine are all racists also?

I don't doubt that SOME people boo Goodes due to racism and I believe the majority are sheep but I also believe that some that boo him simply don't like the bloke due to his attitude and the way he plays and I believe those people are more than entitled to boo him or anyone else.

The issue is working out who is who and what I'm asking is how the hell do you do that ???????

A lot of indigenous players have had their battles, but no one has been as loud and vocal as Goodes on the issues especially in recent times. I believe in the Modern day, people like to pretend that racism is no longer an issue, when really it's still there, just bubbling under the surface.

The Bolded part from your statement is the reason that the AFL, the AFLPA, the coaches, and captains want all the booing of Adam to cease. No one thinks that all the booing is racist. It's for the very reason that you've typed here that everyone wants all the booing to stop.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Bringing up other players, past or present, black or white, is irrelevant to this particular situation. Don't you think it should stop now that the "point" has been made? (Whatever it is) or are you still defending the booers right to boo, over Goodes' right not to feel harassed?

 

[Mattdougie]

A lot of indigenous players have had their battles, but no one has been as loud and vocal as Goodes on the issues especially in recent times. I believe in the Modern day, people like to pretend that racism is no longer an issue, when really it's still there, just bubbling under the surface.

The Bolded part from your statement is the reason that the AFL, the AFLPA, the coaches, and captains want all the booing of Adam to cease. No one thinks that all the booing is racist. It's for the very reason that you've typed here that everyone wants all the booing to stop.

Mate so many people are pushing this as a solely racist issue its laughable

Rebecca Wilson
Gerard Wheatley
Mark Robinson
Etc

All said it's a pity racist issue and have called EVERYONE that boos racist.

That is wrong! Morons or sheep are better words but to label 1000000s of people racist coz they boo a bloke is god damn ridiculous.

These same people applaud Rioli Burgoyne
Yarran Betts etc eye

Are they selectively racist?

 

[Mattdougie]

Bringing up other players, past or present, black or white, is irrelevant to this particular situation. Don't you think it should stop now that the "point" has been made? (Whatever it is) or are you still defending the booers right to boo, over Goodes' right not to feel harassed?

I defend anyone's right to boo anyone if it's based on what they do on the field

Clearly this is a larger issue and has IMO a small racist group at its base and then many many sheep so the majority of booing should stop and that's not just for Goodes that for anyone that suffers it.

But I maintain the rite for those that just don't like him for their opinions of him(diving sooking whatever their reason) to continue booing him.

 

[Some Idiot]

Mate so many people are pushing this as a solely racist issue its laughable

Rebecca Wilson
Gerard Wheatley
Mark Robinson
Etc

All said it's a pity racist issue and have called EVERYONE that boos racist.

That is wrong! Morons or sheep are better words but to label 1000000s of people racist coz they boo a bloke is god damn ridiculous.

These same people applaud Rioli Burgoyne
Yarran Betts etc eye

Are they selectively racist?

No, the media make incredulous generalisations to push their agenda, it's what they've always done, and it's what they will always do.

 

[Mattdougie]

No, the media make incredulous generalisations to push their agenda, it's what they've always done, and it's what they will always do.

And that's why I said those that can't think for themselves follow that path.

 

[the conch]

Sorry mate, we'll have to agree to disagree. Booing opponent players is part of attending the footy - as much as eating a meat pie, screaming blue murder at the umpires and marvelling at a great mark from an opposing player or howling in triumph as your team comes from behind to win.

Free will and speech is under threat from political correctness, I for one hate the thought that people are being told what to do because of one players self absorbed, narcissistic over reaction to a situation caused, in part, by his own actions.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Like a lot of others you got an issue with a black man who doesn't know his space.
He kicked up about being called a sub human. He's dignified and articulate. He's been singled out and picked on by loudmouth resentful ignorant uncharitable white trash.

 

[the conch]

I've no doubt a significant portion of the Goodes booing has a racist basis whether the booer (or booer sympathiser) realises their racism or not. And there is probably a significant portion who are just losers that think it's funny.

Either way it's so wrong. It's like that kid at highschool that people teased everytime they walked past. It's not acceptable or defendable. Even worse that it's happening to Goodes - an Aboriginal leader, a genuine legend of the game playing in his last matches. It's bloody disgraceful and unbelievable people are even doing it or justifying it.

Great post. Spot on.

 

[the conch]

Lol that's my whole point here

People that "think" it's racist are right but people who don't arnt?

That's what I'm saying, the whole thing is guesswork so how can it be called racist with NO evidence other than some people's opinions ?

I know genuine racists that agree with you

 

[DogDays]

Like a lot of others you got an issue with a black man who doesn't know his space.
He kicked up about being called a sub human. He's dignified and articulate. He's been singled out and picked on by loudmouth resentful ignorant uncharitable white trash.

You know nothing about me, my beliefs or my reasons for what I believe. Don't proceed to speak for me or believe you even have a clue about my motivations or thought patterns. I have not personally attacked a single person in this thread however because my view is different from yours apparently you are insinuating that I hold the beliefs mentioned above. This is exactly the sort of rubbish being perpetuated by this entire sensationalist topic.

Don't bother responding, I'm not going to reply nor read this thread any longer, I won't give this topic any more oxygen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mattdougie]

I know genuine racists that agree with you

Mate if I was racist I'd have the balls to say I am and not hide behind words and attempt to deflect.

And I'm happy to admit I've done and said some racist things in my lifetime so am not in anyway saying I'm innocent.

I have 2 genuinely good friends who are indigenous, this year I met a Sudanese bloke through my mates and I can readily say he is one of the nicest guys I have ever met. My "circle" of mates contains all creeds and colours and religions.

I don't say this to defend myself I Don't need to, if you blokes think I'm racist then enjoy that but the people I know and call friends don't think I am or they wouldn't be my friends would they? Yes I do have friends oddly enough

All I was saying is people have the rite to express themselves and not all expressions are racially based. And not all people who boo are ignorant and have some unknown hidden agenda due to that ignorance.

 

[the conch]

Lol what have I said that's embarrassing other than you now having an issue with me again

I'm not falling for your baiting again mutt

I have not condoned racism in anyway or defended it only said that people have rights and not everyone is a racist because you think they are

To LOL Mutts response and carry on your aspergerish knit picking argument is pretty abnormal. Get a heart.

 

[Mattdougie]

To LOL Mutts response and carry on your aspergerish knit picking argument is pretty abnormal. Get a heart.

Conch mutt attempted months ago to make a comment I made about drafting indigenous players racist so he is banging on that drum again trying to bait me

For clarity I said as a club we should stay away from indigenous players because every one we get lately is awful and our development and selection of them is poor at best, slightly tongue in check but factual in honesty.

I then went on to say Brett Goodes shouldn't have been given another year(again proven correct) but should be hired to help us improve in this area.

Somehow he pulled the rope and made it that I was saying we should never draft them due to their colour which I never ever meant, I meant we are poor at selecting them and need to improve in that area by hiring someone to help us and made that very clear. Mutt was the only one to take issue and most actually agreed with me

So yeah I will lol him all day and that's what he deserves

 

[the conch]

Conch mutt attempted months ago to make a comment I made about drafting indigenous players racist so he is banging on that drum again trying to bait me

For clarity I said as a club we should stay away from indigenous players because every one we get lately is awful and our development and selection of them is poor at best, slightly tongue in check but factual in honesty.

I then went on to say Brett Goodes shouldn't have been given another year(again proven correct) but should be hired to help us improve in this area.

Somehow he pulled the rope and made it that I was saying we should never draft them due to their colour which I never ever said

So yeah I will lol him all day and that's what he deserves

Seperate issue, though.
Mutt was opening up about how the tearing down and delegitimising of Goodes is affecting his extended family with aboriginal heritage.
You might have a minor point Matt but you got to see the forest from the tree and how this stuff is very insulting and hurtful to first Australians who have lost so much and continue to be the most disadvantaged, with shocking suicide and health realities, wealth disparities, etc.
Adam Goodes to most aborigines is a beacon of hope and pride in an arena or public space where they have an equal or better standing. It's a terrible thing for many Australians, particularly the largely dispossessed first Australians, that he should be belittled and hunted down... So I'm suggesting forgetting past issues and recognising the hurt for many this is causing.

 

[TMoney22]

Might as well shut down sports all together. This is an absolute joke.

 

[Mattdougie]

Seperate issue, though.
Mutt was opening up about how the tearing down and delegitimising of Goodes is affecting his extended family with aboriginal heritage.
You might have a minor point Matt but you got to see the forest from the tree and how this stuff is very insulting and hurtful to first Australians who have lost so much and continue to be the most disadvantaged, with shocking suicide and health realities, wealth disparities, etc.
Adam Goodes to most aborigines is a beacon of hope and pride in an arena or public space where they have an equal or better standing. It's a terrible thing for many Australians, particularly the largely dispossessed first Australians, that he should be belittled and hunted down... So I'm suggesting forgetting past issues and recognising the hurt for many this is causing.

Mate I've never argued that the racist part of this should be dealt with and never will.

But won't be attacked by anyone who doesn't know me from Adam that calls me a racist because I defend people's rote to expression

lets play Devils advocate and admit that some of Goodes behaviour on field is p!ss poor and in fact some people may indeed be booing him for this, my point is that those people are well and truly entitled to do so and continue doing so.

To draw a string and say the whole issue is racial is rubbish IMO.

The problem we have is differentiating the racist and non racist boos and Goodes inability to admit that at times on field he is an idiot and some of the booing is genuinely about that point and nothing to do with colour.

Will there be an issue with Richmond fans booing Rioli tonite when he lined up for goal in the last qrt? Quite a significant boo and although nothing like Goodes how do we know some of those boos weren't because he is indigenous?

The whole thing is completely bloody painful and over the top IMO and the racial connotations make it a no win situation for those that actually don't think it's not entirely a racial issue

 

[the dog's kennel]

I really don't think the debate of "Is this racist?" is very helpful. It involves lots of reading people's minds, and makes everyone defensive and more likely to say stupid things - witness much of the sorry "debate" on BF.

By contrast, what doesn't involve any mind-reading is looking at the facts:

- Adam Goodes has been booed at varying levels for over a year now.
- The booing is not obviously tied to any particular incident.
- Goodes has tried to ignore it and let it die away, but it has not died away. If anything it has increased.
- It clearly greatly upsets Goodes.

There - no motivations, no blaming, no mind-reading. All of those statements are easily verifiable facts.

So leaving aside all issues of race, the question is: "Why would people continue to pursue an action for over a year that provides very little benefit to them, but which greatly upsets someone else?"

I'm not saying that people shouldn't boo bad behaviour. But to just boo someone endlessly long after the relevant incident(s) to the point where no-one knows exactly why you are booing him, even though that person clearly hates it, and takes great offence at the booing for whatever reason... well that's just $%#^wit behaviour. And bullying. And that's without even considering racism.

I think David Lipson summed it up pretty well with this Venn Diagram