Administration - The AFL v NRL *Moderator Approved* - Rules in OP

[Gigantor]

Only going to get worse for them too. rights are up for negotiation a year before the BBL - the chaps over at fourfourtwo are expecting a Union type increase, even though they dont have the overseas market tension that Union had between in Europe. The BBL rights will go through the roof next time, its rating so damn well its not funny, and womens BBL is rating ok too.

Im expecting almost no increase at all for the Aleague in their next deal, and any increase may well be because of an Optus bid to get more soccer content - Fox to throw everything at a shot for the BBL rights. 2018 the BBL will expand, id expect two more teams - probably canberra and gold coast - and maybe even New Zealand, along with a longer BBL season.

There's a fair bit of delusion amongst A-League fans. Many still believe that commercial FTA is waiting in the wings to throw barrow loads of money at a league which gets bugger all ratings on Fox.

I think there will be a bit of an increase overall, but far too small for the FFA to consider expansion any time soon.

 

[The_Wookie]

I could see something similar working for the suns if the gold coast were to get a BBL team.

The AFL through the Suns have full management rights of Carrara, not only would they love it, but theyd make crap loads of money from it

As for Canberra, I think they are an obvious choice, would get good crowds immediately, and would ensure ongoing investment in Manuka, which is good for footy as well.

Some point down the track, Newcastle will have to face that all of Canberra, Gold Coast and Geelong would get BBL teams ahead of them - and that comes down to having an AFL presence in all cases.

There is a somewhat dilapidated Newcastle No.1 Sports Ground which has an estimated capacity of 20,000. Hosted a state T20 game, some AFl preseason games about a decade ago, and has hosted some NEAFL matches. The AFL has been trying to upgrade it since 2010.

 

[Rob]

There's a fair bit of delusion amongst A-League fans. Many still believe that commercial FTA is waiting in the wings to throw barrow loads of money at a league which gets bugger all ratings on Fox.

I think there will be a bit of an increase overall, but far too small for the FFA to consider expansion any time soon.

I would have thought FTA rights are worth zero at best. And I say at best because at worst they're going to have to pay them to broadcast it. The numbers they get on FTA any network can get with filler programming that costs them nothing. The WBBL is slaughtering them, and that hasn't got a lot of value.
There's some value for Fox - any growth in the rights value is going to come from them. And it's hard to say what Fox are thinking - the loss of the EPL rights could push the A-League rights up or down.

 

[RodneyMaynard]

A Canberra team would sell out manuka every match, and with two teams playing out of the ground, increase the likelihood of investment in ground development.

That being said, a sell-out at Manuka is only 12k people, whereas a sell-out at GC or Geelong would be 20k and 30k respectively when sight-screens are factored in.

 

[Demonoid]

A Canberra team would sell out manuka every match, and with two teams playing out of the ground, increase the likelihood of investment in ground development.

That being said, a sell-out at Manuka is only 12k people, whereas a sell-out at GC or Geelong would be 20k and 30k respectively when sight-screens are factored in.

I'm all for a Canberra Big Bash team. FFS if Hobart can get one with their population being only a bit more than half of Canberra/Queanbeyan, than I don't see why Canberra can't be in the mix.

And should they get it, I dare say that will bring forward the redevelopment of the ground to about 20k which really would make it a great boutique stadium for the Giants as well (which they would go close to filling with proper opposition).

Next test will be the ODI against India on January 20 - last check of tickets had only GA (hill) available with single seats in the stands so hopefully some good weather will see a full house.

Master Plan here (refer to Mo2 option): http://www.manukaoval.com.au/about/options_for_future_development.php

 

[saviour01]

I could see something similar working for the suns if the gold coast were to get a BBL team.

As for Canberra, I think they are an obvious choice, would get good crowds immediately, and would ensure ongoing investment in Manuka, which is good for footy as well.

Some point down the track, Newcastle will have to face that all of Canberra, Gold Coast and Geelong would get BBL teams ahead of them - and that comes down to having an AFL presence in all cases.

Average crowd of 27k so far this season, smallest home team average of 16k in Hobart. With a capacity of 13.5k, why would you possibly say "
As for Canberra, I think they are an obvious choice, would get good crowds immediately" when they could AT BEST get half the league average?

 

[saviour01]

2018 the BBL will expand, id expect two more teams - probably canberra and gold coast - and maybe even New Zealand, along with a longer BBL season.

Any links on this? I can't see them wanting to change a winning formula too much. There is already some average park cricketers getting a run, adding 2 more teams would just dilute the talent even further.

Canberra might be decent if they had a better stadium but I can't see GC getting one. Not sure about Geelong either. Doubt they go 2 teams anywhere else either. Maybe NZ? But I doubt it. They have their own version which seems to be going decent, putting a NZ team in ours would kill that.

 

[Gigantor]

Average crowd of 27k so far this season, smallest home team average of 16k in Hobart. With a capacity of 13.5k, why would you possibly say "
As for Canberra, I think they are an obvious choice, would get good crowds immediately" when they could AT BEST get half the league average?

As you say yourself, Hobart with the lowest average crowds, and both Canberra and Gold Coast would immediately attract crowds a bit lower than Hobart's (which is more than acceptable).

Last year Manuka Oval was used for the grand final venue, i.e. a neutral venue, no link with either team in the final, and attracted a tick under 12k.

Canberra would easily average that same number if it had its own team. Canberrans turn out in good numbers for quality cricket fixtures - a BBL team is about their best hope for regular cricket.

Manuka and Carrara present very good venue options for an expanded BBL.

 

[saviour01]

Has the gold coast ever had a game of cricket?

Yes they would attract crowds a bit lower than Hobart's, and would stay that way for at least the next 5 years (and even then depends on funding for a ground that gets used 7 times a season - 4 bbl and 3 afl) when the rugby codes are pushing for a new ground that would be used ~20 times a season.

Would the BBL be happy with 12k crowds for 4 home games i.e. 48k people over a season when 4/8 sides will probably get that amount in just 1 game (just saw scg was only 46k capacity, 4/8 side get 46k then). More than acceptable to who?

 

[Experimental]

Has the gold coast ever had a game of cricket?

Yes they would attract crowds a bit lower than Hobart's, and would stay that way for at least the next 5 years (and even then depends on funding for a ground that gets used 7 times a season - 4 bbl and 3 afl) when the rugby codes are pushing for a new ground that would be used ~20 times a season.

Would the BBL be happy with 12k crowds for 4 home games i.e. 48k people over a season when 4/8 sides will probably get that amount in just 1 game (just saw scg was only 46k capacity, 4/8 side get 46k then). More than acceptable to who?

Keep in mind that over the summer months the Gold Coast's population increases from 600k to 1 million, roughly. These tourists are both domestic and international visitors, some of whom already enjoy cricket, and some of whom would be hugely eager to attend a local sporting event. Seeing as the BBL has such a limited season, selling the majority of tickets to a Metricon based cricket team's home game certainly isn't impossible, nor improbable.

 

[Gigantor]

Has the gold coast ever had a game of cricket?

Yes they would attract crowds a bit lower than Hobart's, and would stay that way for at least the next 5 years (and even then depends on funding for a ground that gets used 7 times a season - 4 bbl and 3 afl) when the rugby codes are pushing for a new ground that would be used ~20 times a season.

Would the BBL be happy with 12k crowds for 4 home games i.e. 48k people over a season when 4/8 sides will probably get that amount in just 1 game (just saw scg was only 46k capacity, 4/8 side get 46k then). More than acceptable to who?

It's true the rugby codes are looking for a new ground - looks like they will have to wait a bit with some pretty hefty demands on the ACT government's budget right now.

Manuka exists, it already has a 14,000 capacity - it will always be Canberra's main cricket and footy ground. A BBL side would guarantee more investment in the ground, and capacity could be increased to around the 16k to 17k range, which would be perfect for Canberra.

Would CA be happy with a Canberra team getting a full house of around 14k spectators?

Of course it would!

They are eyeing off a big increase in TV rights next time round, and they will get it plus some - an expansion of the BBL is a given.

 

[saviour01]

Why does increase in tv rights mean increase in teams?

How do you know CA is happy with 13.5k crowds at best for an expansion team, when the lowest drawing team averages 16k and everyone else is 20k+

 

[Hawkers]

I'm all for a Canberra Big Bash team. FFS if Hobart can get one with their population being only a bit more than half of Canberra/Queanbeyan, than I don't see why Canberra can't be in the mix.

And should they get it, I dare say that will bring forward the redevelopment of the ground to about 20k which really would make it a great boutique stadium for the Giants as well (which they would go close to filling with proper opposition).

Next test will be the ODI against India on January 20 - last check of tickets had only GA (hill) available with single seats in the stands so hopefully some good weather will see a full house.

Master Plan here (refer to Mo2 option): http://www.manukaoval.com.au/about/options_for_future_development.php

Manuka needs to sort out parking before expanding any further. It's hard to get a close park as it is now and forget about taking public transport.

Whatever they do Manuka is the perfect location for football and cricket. Excellent sized ground and very good amenities around it.

The worst option, and this is by far the worst option, is to move football back out to Bruce. That place is terrible.

 

[The_Wookie]

Why does increase in tv rights mean increase in teams?

How do you know CA is happy with 13.5k crowds at best for an expansion team, when the lowest drawing team averages 16k and everyone else is 20k+

Because these days its not just about crowd numbers. If it was, the NRL wouldnt get within coo-ee of the AFLs broadcast rights. It comes down to more matches = more viewers = more broadcast revenue.

 

[saviour01]

Because these days its not just about crowd numbers. If it was, the NRL wouldnt get within coo-ee of the AFLs broadcast rights. It comes down to more matches = more viewers = more broadcast revenue.

Then why doesn't the NFL go to 25 games? Why are they happy to stay at 17? If you have a good product, why dilute it. If anything they could go to playing everyone twice, instead of just the "derby" team.

Surely that is more likely than adding 2 more teams in places that cannot draw a crowd and diluting the talent pool even further.

 

[The_Wookie]

Then why doesn't the NFL go to 25 games? Why are they happy to stay at 17? If you have a good product, why dilute it. If anything they could go to playing everyone twice, instead of just the "derby" team.

Surely that is more likely than adding 2 more teams in places that cannot draw a crowd and diluting the talent pool even further.

We arent the US market. Why did the AFL expand to 18 teams? Why is there so much talk about probable NRL expansion? And Aleague expansion? etc etc. More games = more viewers = more money. its that simple.

 

[saviour01]

We arent the US market. Why did the AFL expand to 18 teams? Why is there so much talk about probable NRL expansion? And Aleague expansion? etc etc. More games = more viewers = more money. its that simple.

Afl expanded to 18 because they had no presence in western sydney and only 1 team in the biggest state in Australia. 4 or 5 years in would you say either of them are a success? I don't really know about GC but you couldn't argue GWS are... Sure in 20 years yada yada yada but BBL is into what it's 5th year? Will it be around in 20?

Lots of people have been putting in bids for NRL sides, pretty sure CC even had like 8k members at one point without a team. Plus all the brisbane/central qld sides and perth has had a bid going for probably 10 years now. And NRL head office hasn't even talked about it properly yet.

Obviously there is at least 2 in the NRL that could have been up and running ready to go for the next tv deal if the broadcasters thought their was value in it. Plus it dilutes the talent making the games not as high quality.

If the NRL isn't ready to put a second team into brisbane (where there are like 3 bids and demand) and perth (which gets 20k crowds, decent stadium) then why would the BBL rush to put a side in a place where they cant get more than a 13k crowd and GC where it wont even add ratings due to not being in the 5 metro's anyway.

They would be better off keeping 8 sides and making it 14 matches instead of 8.

 

[The_Wookie]

Afl expanded to 18 because they had no presence in western sydney and only 1 team in the biggest state in Australia. 4 or 5 years in would you say either of them are a success? I don't really know about GC but you couldn't argue GWS are... Sure in 20 years yada yada yada but BBL is into what it's 5th year? Will it be around in 20?

Lots of people have been putting in bids for NRL sides, pretty sure CC even had like 8k members at one point without a team. Plus all the brisbane/central qld sides and perth has had a bid going for probably 10 years now. And NRL head office hasn't even talked about it properly yet.

Obviously there is at least 2 in the NRL that could have been up and running ready to go for the next tv deal if the broadcasters thought their was value in it. Plus it dilutes the talent making the games not as high quality.

If the NRL isn't ready to put a second team into brisbane (where there are like 3 bids and demand) and perth (which gets 20k crowds, decent stadium) then why would the BBL rush to put a side in a place where they cant get more than a 13k crowd and GC where it wont even add ratings due to not being in the 5 metro's anyway.

They would be better off keeping 8 sides and making it 14 matches instead of 8.

Again, because apparently you have trouble with this, crowds mean bugger all when it comes to broadcast rights.

 

[saviour01]

I thought regionals don't matter in broadcast rights?

 

[The_Wookie]

I thought regionals don't matter in broadcast rights?

Who the hell said anything about regionals in this context? go back to LU.

 

[Gigantor]

I thought regionals don't matter in broadcast rights?

Correct. At least your visit here has been worthwhile and we have been able to educate you.

 

[saviour01]

So why would adding 2 teams not in the 5 metro's help the broadcast rights?

 

[Gigantor]

So why would adding 2 teams not in the 5 metro's help the broadcast rights?

Do warriors games still get decent ratings on Fox?

Their home base isn't even in the country!

 

[The_Wookie]

So why would adding 2 teams not in the 5 metro's help the broadcast rights?

because its not like those games arent also going to be broadcast in metro areas is it? We're talking about Big bash sides here, not AFL ones.

 

[saviour01]

Do warriors games still get decent ratings on Fox?

Their home base isn't even in the country!

Do they get decent ratings on fta? What about canberra or newcastle?