Administration - The AFL v NRL *Moderator Approved* - Rules in OP

[Rob]

You obviously havent been to any NRL teams licensed clubs in Sydney/NSW or spent any real time there. They are inextricably linked to the football club because usually down the road is a competing RSL club


Never said you did. Its the only ground I questioned you on and agreed with your other criteria.


Once again you dont have the experience of these clubs. Most clubs charge a nominal $5-$10 and 98%+ dont turn up to the AGM or vote in the elections. The clubs in their constitutions usually have clauses about supporting the football club and junior development and other community sports.

I am aware of all of that, but some of these clubs are massive. They generate tens of millions a year and are based in buildings worth similar amounts. A couple of million a year in grants is chicken feed when they're spending many times that on new and improved facilities.

If these places have such strong links then you'd think more than a handful of them would show up to games. The football teams are actually going the other way, moving away from their traditional homes (in some cases where the pokie palaces are) to play at grounds like ANZ and the SFS.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I am aware of all of that, but some of these clubs are massive. They generate tens of millions a year and are based in buildings worth similar amounts. A couple of million a year in grants is chicken feed when they're spending many times that on new and improved facilities.

If these places have such strong links then you'd think more than a handful of them would show up to games. The football teams are actually going the other way, moving away from their traditional homes (in some cases where the pokie palaces are) to play at grounds like ANZ and the SFS.

Sydney people dont like travelling to watch sport. When Penrith goes and plays Cronulla 60-70km away most of their fans stay and watch the game live at Panthers. Hell the same thing happens when they only have to travel 20-25kms to Parramatta stadium. When the Roosters play at home at the SFS (or next door at the SCG occasionally) about 4km away from Easts licensed club the place is deserted. When they play away from home even as short a distance as about 12 km to Balmain's old oval at Leichhardt or similar distance to Kogarah against St George, the place is packed and people watching on TV and a couple of big screens.

Panthers is the Behemoth of NRL licensed clubs that massively outgrew the football club compared to the other Sydney based NRL clubs, but still at its core in its constitution is to support the football club. Plus in the books of the football club it has an asset of $100mil+ receivable from the licensed club for land that it granted to the licensed club, to use to derive income and profits to distribute back to the football club. The Swans dont have a $100m asset on their books like Penrith RL club.

I know what you are saying and agree in part, but it is incorrect to completely ignore the relationship between the football and licensed clubs for the Sydney and NSW based NRL teams.

 

[The_Wookie]

anyone else notice the massive drop off for the A-League since the NRL and now the preseason AFL has started, with the cricket world cup on as well I think we may be seeing the true standing of football soccer in Australia. Crowds and viewer's seem to have dropped by a ton.

The Aleague basically has to gain as much as traction as possible in early october-november. After that, Cricket/BBL take over, and when thats done, its time for AFL/NRL/Super Rugby

 

[Gigantor]

I did notice the Fox ratings for the A-League on the weekend were horrendous. A couple of games rated in the low 20k's, remarkably bad numbers especially given that includes regionals and the AFL hasn't started. It's probably an indication of how much of their fan base is located in Queensland and NSW.

The grand final replay, featuring the all-conquering Wanderers and the most successful A-League club of the last five seasons, achieved a rating of 39k on the weekend, which pretty much summarises where the A-League is at when one strips away all the BS.

 

[walhawk]

Crowds
Membership
Turnover
Number of employees
Player salary roll

True, but Souths (and the other big NRL clubs) have triple the amount of people in the street interested in them and much, much higher TV ratings.
If you did a census, Swans would not be close to the most popular football club in Sydney.

But, AFL in Sydney is perhaps three times bigger than NRL is here.
I follow Storm to some extent but am yet to meet anyone without a NSW/QLD/NZ/UK background who has any interest.
p.s. are we still on the membership thread?

 

[Bomberboyokay]

NRL in Melbourne is on about the same level as AFL in Sydney ... no surprise.

AFL in Sydney is well ahead of NRL in Melbourne. Swans have the biggest average home crowds in the whole city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Australian_football_code_crowds#Attendances_by_team

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Sydney people dont like travelling to watch sport.

That's the cop out for Sydney NRL clubs not drawing and State of Origin being the essential part of the TV rights, to put it in blunt terms.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

That's the cop out for Sydney NRL clubs not drawing and State of Origin being the essential part of the TV rights, to put it in blunt terms.

You ever lived in Sydney?

Tackle Pennant Hills Road and you will know why people stay at their local

Fwiw, they may not rock up to the games in person, but the pubs and leagues clubs were packed up there for the big games

Much easier to enjoy a feed and brew at the pub and watch the game live, than fight traffic for an hour plus

 

[bombersfan4000]

Turnover isnt correct - you have to factor in the licensed club component. When pokies legislation was introduced in NSW in the early 1950's the licensed clubs had to be separate legal entities to the football club, but historically they have had the same boards and multi million dollar grants transferred to the football clubs every year. Sydney Roosters + Easts licensed club is way bigger than Sydney Swans. Penrith RL football club was set up in mid 1960's as part of the Panthers group. Group turnover of Panthers was about $150m when I looked at their 2012 annual report.

If you look at membership $ + sponsorship/marketing $ + matchday receipts from public and corporates + distributions from AFL / NRL then Im 99% sure you are right, but its not the full picture. Its why a couple of years ago, a branding expert valued the Penrith Panthers as the highest value brand of all Oz sporting clubs and Collingwood second, when looking at revenue generation. Its why I looked up their 2012 annual report.

yes but penrith carry anywhere from 40 to 60 million in debt, that James packer lent them the money.

the penrith panthers football related revenue was is around 15 million at best
the exact figures are somewhere on the net.

my point is how do you separate a worth of a football club like the Pies compared to Penrith
one has 79 k members and a home crowd average of 48k to the 16k members & home crowd average of 11k.

 

[Rob]

True, but Souths (and the other big NRL clubs) have triple the amount of people in the street interested in them and much, much higher TV ratings.
If you did a census, Swans would not be close to the most popular football club in Sydney.

Like Roy Morgan? Yeah, that has the Swans in front by miles. A lot more people would have a passing interest in the Swans than any Sydney NRL team. As in wouldn't watch a lot of them but wouldn't mind if they won.

TV ratings is where the Swans fall down, but that's not necessarily a great indicator of support given it's likely the bulk of viewers watching an NRL game in Sydney aren't supporters of either team.

 

[Rob]

The grand final replay, featuring the all-conquering Wanderers and the most successful A-League club of the last five seasons, achieved a rating of 39k on the weekend, which pretty much summarises where the A-League is at when one strips away all the BS.

I dunno about the BS part, but it's clear a lot of their viewers are primarily supporters of another sport first. As soon as there's something else on a lot switch over.

 

[fabulousphil]

yes but penrith carry anywhere from 40 to 60 million in debt, that James packer lent them the money.

the penrith panthers football related revenue was is around 15 million at best
the exact figures are somewhere on the net.

my point is how do you separate a worth of a football club like the Pies compared to Penrith
one has 79 k members and a home crowd average of 48k to the 16k members & home crowd average of 11k.

If you have ever been to a leagues club it is not hard to work out hardly anyone gives a stuff about RL, the exact same scenario would occur at Lions @ Springwood or Collingwoods pokie venues.

Not sure how you separate it all, but Collingwoods revenue is somewhat misleading.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

If you have ever been to a leagues club it is not hard to work out hardly anyone gives a stuff about RL, the exact same scenario would occur at Lions @ Springwood or Collingwoods pokie venues.

Not sure how you separate it all, but Collingwoods revenue is somewhat misleading.

you have obviously never asked a leagues club if they can switch ONE screen to the AFL game

 

[bigleague]

'League's clubs' exist primarily to raise revenue for the purpose of supporting rugby league, it's in their constitution, but they are separate entities to the clubs. However, they are inextricably intertwined for a few clubs.

 

[fabulousphil]

you have obviously never asked a leagues club if they can switch ONE screen to the AFL game

Nope can't say i have, most people are not staring at the TV screen but a poker machine screen.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

yes but penrith carry anywhere from 40 to 60 million in debt, that James packer lent them the money.

the penrith panthers football related revenue was is around 15 million at best
the exact figures are somewhere on the net.

my point is how do you separate a worth of a football club like the Pies compared to Penrith
one has 79 k members and a home crowd average of 48k to the 16k members & home crowd average of 11k.

sorry but I dont know what your point and argueme t was as my posts were transfered from another thread.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

'League's clubs' exist primarily to raise revenue for the purpose of supporting rugby league, it's in their constitution, but they are separate entities to the clubs. However, they are inextricably intertwined for a few clubs.

anyone who thinks leagues clubs in Sydney are separate in anyway other than business structure for tax purposes needs their heads read.
the entire point of a leagues club is to support local footy and footy sides.

many clubs see massive numbers attend during away games, and its packed when the sides playing across the street mulga rd for example gets busier than central station, before and after a home game. come finals there's zero room to move let alone sit in many leagues clubs. they are all filled to the brim with moving jerseys.

the NRL has never been funded directly by members with a massive focus on crowds like the AFL has, it's always been about the leagues club, they aren't just pokie dens. for many of the suburban clubs they are the focal point for social interaction and central parts of the community.

this is why even some hillbilly fourth division club in milperra will have a leagues club attached to it. the leagues and the club are two sides of the same thing.

 

[bombersfan4000]

That's the cop out for Sydney NRL clubs not drawing and State of Origin being the essential part of the TV rights, to put it in blunt terms.

around 20% of the whole overall broardcast deal

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Nope can't say i have, most people are not staring at the TV screen but a poker machine screen.

They are not just about pokies, that's what we are getting at. Mine was always packed on game days, and with young blokes, not old farts like you get at our rsl's

 

[walhawk]

Like Roy Morgan? Yeah, that has the Swans in front by miles. A lot more people would have a passing interest in the Swans than any Sydney NRL team. As in wouldn't watch a lot of them but wouldn't mind if they won.

TV ratings is where the Swans fall down, but that's not necessarily a great indicator of support given it's likely the bulk of viewers watching an NRL game in Sydney aren't supporters of either team.

No, the Morgan poll asked everyone in Sydney which AFL club they follow. Which was obviously Swans.
If you asked 'what football club' you support, Swans would be behind Souths, WSW, Canterbury, Parra, St George at least.
My extended family is near Wollongong. They all 'follow' the Swans. They might check the ladder on the news and might watch the finals. But they all watch every Friday and Sunday NRL game on Ch9.
Other family is in Western Sydney (Bringelly). Not huge AFL fans but two years ago they were not aware that there was a team called GWS. They asked what is stood for.

 

[Colonial]

No, the Morgan poll asked everyone in Sydney which AFL club they follow. Which was obviously Swans.
If you asked 'what football club' you support, Swans would be behind Souths, WSW, Canterbury, Parra, St George at least.
My extended family is near Wollongong. They all 'follow' the Swans. They might check the ladder on the news and might watch the finals. But they all watch every Friday and Sunday NRL game on Ch9.
Other family is in Western Sydney (Bringelly). Not huge AFL fans but two years ago they were not aware that there was a team called GWS. They asked what is stood for.

I get the feeling this is a troll.
*reads wsw as one of the biggest clubs
Yep a troll

 

[walhawk]

I get the feeling this is a troll.
*reads wsw as one of the biggest clubs
Yep a troll

You need to get in touch with your feelings.
Do you know what a troll is?
I might be wrong about WSW as I have not been up there in the last few years, but the others are spot on.
How many people in Sydney do you think would list GWS ot Swans as their favourite football team?

 

[bombersfan4000]

If you have ever been to a leagues club it is not hard to work out hardly anyone gives a stuff about RL, the exact same scenario would occur at Lions @ Springwood or Collingwoods pokie venues.

Not sure how you separate it all, but Collingwoods revenue is somewhat misleading.

they are, the annual reports can be some times miss leading but most occasions the money, gaming revenue will be listed separately.
so a good way to tell how a club is going look at the total revenue then, take out the gaming revenue & see what you end up with

 

[ringleader]

No, the Morgan poll asked everyone in Sydney which AFL club they follow. Which was obviously Swans.
If you asked 'what football club' you support, Swans would be behind Souths, WSW, Canterbury, Parra, St George at least.
My extended family is near Wollongong. They all 'follow' the Swans. They might check the ladder on the news and might watch the finals. But they all watch every Friday and Sunday NRL game on Ch9.
Other family is in Western Sydney (Bringelly). Not huge AFL fans but two years ago they were not aware that there was a team called GWS. They asked what is stood for.

Much like the same poll conducted in Melbourne http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport...gpies-says-poll/2009/10/21/1255891860561.html

 

[walhawk]

Much like the same poll conducted in Melbourne http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport...gpies-says-poll/2009/10/21/1255891860561.html

Exactly.
there would not be 50,000 people in Melbourne who would put Storn first as their preferred footy club.