AFL "integrity rule" re Freo and North resting players

[madman]

I don't think it's correct calling them tankers. They're preparing for the finals and at the same time they're giving other players a chance to perhaps get into the first team for the finals.

What I don't like about this is that they're giving 0 respect to Port who want to finish on a high note. I know it's a nothing game, but Port still have something to prove to their fans and themselves. I know Freo are obviously thinking about next week, but I hope Port give them more to think about.

 

[PerfectFooty]

I thought the AFL invented this rule when Freo did this against the saints a couple of years back. I know it has no effect on the finnish of the season for freo but what was the point of even making the rule?

 

[TiggerMan22]

When you tank your aim is to lose.
Fremantles aim is still to win the game, they just wont be doing everything they can to win.
Theres the difference.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

How about Port, Adelaide, West Coast and Freo all play at home and host Collingwood, Richmond, Geelong and Hawthorn?
Get the picture?
Try thinking outside the square or outside the State once in a while.

I am thinking outside the state, I'm in WA.

Freo in the AFL final round of the season :

1995 v West Coast H
1996 v Fitzroy H
1997 v Melbourne MCG
1998 v Hawthorn Waverley
1999 v Geelong Kardinia
2000 v Brisbane GABBA
2001 v Adelaide H
2002 v Adelaide H
2003 v West Coast A
2004 v St Kilda Etihad
2005 v Port Adelaide Football Park
2006 v Port Adelaide H
2007 v Port Adelaide Football Park
2008 v Collingwood H
2009 v Geelong Kardinia
2010 v Carlton H
2011 v Western Bulldogs Etihad
2012 v Melbourne H
2013 v St Kilda Etihad
2014 v Port Adelaide H
2015 v Port Adelaide Adelaide Oval

21 complete seasons.

9 home games
1 derby as the away team
11 away games

last 10 seasons including this one.

5 home games
5 away games 2 in Adelaide, 2 in Melbourne, 1 in Geelong.

Why should Freo get a home game in the last round? They did last year against Port and Port then had to come back 2 weeks later and they won.

I think the general argument has been put up before about the last round being a Derby, Showdown and Sydney playing Brisbane so that there is virtually no travel and the Western Australian clubs haven't been that interested due to the physical nature of the games heading into finals.

If they're not going to play a Derby every year for the last round then why should Freo get to play every final round at home? Playing in Adelaide seems better than having to travel further east.

Another entitled Freo supporter with a big chip on their shoulder.

 

[james brayshaw]

As far as i can tell there are no laws of the game prohibiting resting players as long as the players coming in try. We shouldn't even have to ask.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I thought the AFL invented this rule when Freo did this against the saints a couple of years back. I know it has no effect on the finnish of the season for freo but what was the point of even making the rule?

The point of making the rule is

• Being perceived by the general public to making a change.
• Ensuring Fremantle had to apply to the AFL, which allowed them to tell the betting agencies before the general public.

 

[Somebody]

Whilst the result of this game won't affect the 8, this kind of tactic could easily have an effect on a team's position in the 8 in the future. You can't simply apply this rule when you feel like it. Either it is allowed with all the possible repercussions or it isn't.

Personally, I'm against it purely on the 'what-if' factor. When a team gets bumped from the eight or the top four, or loses home advantage because another team has let themselves get flogged, then people will be asking questions.

Since the olden days when every game every week of all the big leagues was played at the same time in the same city, nothing has been absolutley fair about the draw. Just knowing results of other games before playing in the same round is often a great advantage especially at this time of the year. So it's meaningless to complain about any unfairness mass resting could cause to other clubs - it's just another part of the "luck of the draw" just like the weather or something. Clubs should be able to pick a side to suit themselves and if it affects another club "unfairly" tough t***ies, deal with it.

EDIT: and as another poster reminded me, since the days when every team played every other team twice, once at home and once away...

 

[Kram]

I thought the AFL invented this rule when Freo did this against the saints a couple of years back. I know it has no effect on the finnish of the season for freo but what was the point of even making the rule?

They only made a rule about doing it to try and manipulate the finals draw, it's not actually against or to do with what we are doing now or in the past.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

You're not 'throwing' it, but you're not worried about the result either. These players might well try their hardest, but they are not in your best 22.

I understand why Freo would do it, but you can't have a rule that is applied depending on the ladder position or the possible outcome of the match.

What if the Brisbane Lions change their entire 22 in preparation for next year. Richmond beat North by 1 point, but the Dogs belt the crap out of the Lions and jump over them on the ladder on percentage? It might be the difference between playing at home or going to Adelaide.

They might not be a best 22 but a best 22 player could pick up an injury in the game, they could be injured at training or they could get injured at anytime during the finals series and players that currently aren't best 22 would be wanting to put stake a claim in case an injury should arise.

 

[chazwazza]

I am thinking outside the state, I'm in WA.

Freo in the AFL final round of the season :

1995 v West Coast H
1996 v Fitzroy H
1997 v Melbourne MCG
1998 v Hawthorn Waverley
1999 v Geelong Kardinia
2000 v Brisbane GABBA
2001 v Adelaide H
2002 v Adelaide H
2003 v West Coast A
2004 v St Kilda Etihad
2005 v Port Adelaide Football Park
2006 v Port Adelaide H
2007 v Port Adelaide Football Park
2008 v Collingwood H
2009 v Geelong Kardinia
2010 v Carlton H
2011 v Western Bulldogs Etihad
2012 v Melbourne H
2013 v St Kilda Etihad
2014 v Port Adelaide H
2015 v Port Adelaide Adelaide Oval

21 complete seasons.

9 home games
1 derby as the away team
11 away games

last 10 seasons including this one.

5 home games
5 away games 2 in Adelaide, 2 in Melbourne, 1 in Geelong.

Why should Freo get a home game in the last round? They did last year against Port and Port then had to come back 2 weeks later and they won.

I think the general argument has been put up before about the last round being a Derby, Showdown and Sydney playing Brisbane so that there is virtually no travel and the Western Australian clubs haven't been that interested due to the physical nature of the games heading into finals.

If they're not going to play a Derby every year for the last round then why should Freo get to play every final round at home? Playing in Adelaide seems better than having to travel further east.

Another entitled Freo supporter with a big chip on their shoulder.

Umm, I'm not a Freo supporter.
My point is that there's certain Victorian clubs that never seem to travel in the last round, the AFL mostly makes sure they're not leaving Victoria. Those that do are normally the lesser lights like Bulldogs, Melbourne, North, St Kilda etc.
So I'm not suggesting both SA & WA clubs play their last round at home all the time, just putting the example forward that if it's ok for the AFL to look after the big Victorian clubs what's to stop them from making sure the big non Vic clubs are all looked after one year?
Again, it's these clubs that have to work harder to prop up the big Vic clubs that get it easier. It's not even shared across the league evenly.

 

[Somebody]

If a team drops a position on percentage and loses a home final just because another team has thrown a game and gets belted, there will be hell to pay.

Throwing a game because your position in the top eight is secure is no different than throwing a game because your position in the bottom 10 is secure. If a bottom 10 team made 15 changes to the final game which allowed a team in the top 8 to change a position they probably wouldn't have, then that affects the integrity of the competition.

that's like when the guy who misses the shot after the siren that loses a game is blamed, when all the other misses during the game also lost the game. Jsut because some "bad luck" happens in the last game of the season doesn't make it any more important than the totally unfair draw that is the AFL today, with top 8 teams from last year having to play other top 8 teams twice much more often, or just because those games make more money for the AFL (Collingwood is a good example of this). that's just the "luck" - or bias - of the draw and no good using it as an excuse.

 

[Nostradumbass]

The AFL carrying on about integrity?

 

[Struggle]

They shouldn't have announced it until Thursday night. Who cares what the being agencies think. They're parasites, the lot of them. The more money they lose, the better.

 

[Sweetback]

Are any of the other finalists resting players this week? I'd imagine Hawthorn would.

 

[PerfectFooty]

They only made a rule about doing it to try and manipulate the finals draw, it's not actually against or to do with what we are doing now or in the past.

It's a stupid rule anyway a coach should be able to field any side they choose. If Freo are clever enough to rest their players knowing it will have no effect on the final ladder positions they should be allowed to and not have to go through the AFL to do so. Although at the same time i also understand practically playing your own Bye before finals is a bit advantageous compared to other sides, but then again with the top eight set in stone whats to stop all sides from fielding B sides, Hawthorn could do it on friday

 

[The King!]

The only issue I have is that Freo even have to ask, they should be able to pick whomever they want

They have earned the right to take a bigger risk of defeat if they so wish by managing players

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I don't think it's correct calling them tankers. They're preparing for the finals and at the same time they're giving other players a chance to perhaps get into the first team for the finals.

What I don't like about this is that they're giving 0 respect to Port who want to finish on a high note. I know it's a nothing game, but Port still have something to prove to their fans and themselves. I know Freo are obviously thinking about next week, but I hope Port give them more to think about.

And that fact seems to have been forgotten in all of this. There will be 22 Fremantle players trying their guts out on the weekend to give themselves a chance of being picked in a finals team.

It's not like Freo are tanking, ergo deliberately trying to lose.

As far as I am concerned, any coach, at any time reserves the right to select any player on his list for any game he sees fit. It's smart coaching from Lyon. The "welfare" of the grubby betting agencies should be of concern to nobody, least of all the dipshits at AFL House. Nor should they concern themselves with Port "trying to finish on a high note." That is not Ross Lyon's problem.

 

[Dugdale2Dwyer]

Are any of the other finalists resting players this week? I'd imagine Hawthorn would.

Mark Stevens suggesting North should rest Goldstein this week.

 

[Randomizor]

Mark Stevens suggesting North should rest Goldstein this week.

Probably not the worst idea. Imagine him getting injured just before finals!

 

[Peter Bosustow]

This rule was definitely introduced to appease Channel 7 and the betting agencies - now they account for perennial Carltankers and the odd finals team taking the piss. Freo shouldn't have to justify its decisions at the selection table to anyone! This is a non-issue in the NFL when a team has stitched up home-field advantage/locked into their playoff seed.

 

[stewie griffen]

And that fact seems to have been forgotten in all of this. There will be 22 Fremantle players trying their guts out on the weekend to give themselves a chance of being picked in a finals team.

It's not like Freo are tanking, ergo deliberately trying to lose.

As far as I am concerned, any coach, at any time reserves the right to select any player on his list for any game he sees fit. It's smart coaching from Lyon. The "welfare" of the grubby betting agencies should be of concern to nobody, least of all the dipshits at AFL House. Nor should they concern themselves with Port "trying to finish on a high note." That is not Ross Lyon's problem.

 

[Frigate]

Why would Ross want to rest players? Surely the club made sure every player did a preseason that made them prepared for the 23 rounds + finals....

Are you taking the piss?
Surely Franklin, Tippett, Parker, Kennedy, Reid, McVeigh, Heeney, Smith all did the preseasons but still can't get through a season. They get managed throughout the year depending on opposition (Parker would have played every game though). At least you do have the common sense to acknowledge if you get yourself in the position to rest players, then you can.

It is comical to think that all players can play every game in one of the most taxing games in the world, shown by the average number of games played over a career, and the average retirement age.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Mark Stevens suggesting North should rest Goldstein this week.

Could do, depending on who they want to play in the finals.

 

[D-N-R]

that's like when the guy who misses the shot after the siren that loses a game is blamed, when all the other misses during the game also lost the game. Jsut because some "bad luck" happens in the last game of the season doesn't make it any more important than the totally unfair draw that is the AFL today, with top 8 teams from last year having to play other top 8 teams twice much more often, or just because those games make more money for the AFL (Collingwood is a good example of this). that's just the "luck" - or bias - of the draw and no good using it as an excuse.

There is a difference between something happening through luck or misfortune and something happening through a very deliberate action like resting half a team.

 

[Aldo]

When I heard about this, this is what went through my head.

AFL: Ok Ross, so what are you planning?
Lyon: I'm resting everyone.
AFL: But Ross...
Lyon: