Review AFL Round 18 autopsy - GWS Giants defeated by Geelong by 7 points

[Catman]

North, Freo and us have been flat this round and I don't reckon it's a coincidence... Heavy training for all leading into the bye?

So we've been in a heavy training phase since Round 5?

 

[rooie]

So we've been in a heavy training phase since Round 5?

since 2012 preseason.

 

[Partridge]

... I told you exactly how it's biased

Biased is picking a random sample of games and ignoring others, for convenience. Taking the entire season in its totality is about as unbiased as you can get.

Unless of course it doesn't suit someone's argument, then it is truly hideous.

 

[Partridge]

You can make whatever argument you want, but I think CS will have Blicavs in the side again.. It seems clear to me that he likes him in the side. I don't think all 3 will play in all games from now on, so given CS will probably pick blitz, Simpson and McIntosh are probably fighting it out for 1 spot

Never said they wouldn't. The only thing I want is only two selected; not three. Pick any combination you prefer.

As for the argument (debate) you're having over the ruckmen, surely the hitouts to advantage numbers are more important, we're getting creamed in the clearances pretty much every week.. So either the ruckmen aren't giving our mids quality hitouts or our mids aren't structuring up well at stoppages.

Or if both the above are fine, then we just don't have good clearance midfielders, it has to be one of the 3 scenarios surely?

I think the midfielders are a part of it for sure. We think they're all great old and young, but all the young guys are promising and have their best years in front of them. They're not going to be clearance machines just yet.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Exactly what I've been. Thinking ever since our loss to Port. We actually looked pretty damn good up until that loss. We were the only undefeated side in the comp, and had beaten Adelaide, the magpies, hawks, lions and west coast. And we were not only winning games, we were actually somewhat playing four quarters (or at least close). IMO, we were actually playing quite well.

I'm pretty sure in all of those good games we has Simpson, Hmac, and Blitz all playing. Also Mcarthy and Varcoe both playing as pressure forwards.

 

[Shai]

Imagine manning up Boyd, Patton and Cameron in three years' time with the midfield service they'll be getting.

Very impressive, their backline is not too shabby either, Mohr & Davis are both strong & smart defenders..

 

[winty]

After 17 rounds, we've played every other side once (only team to do so) for a 13-4 record, and the 4 losses we had were at grounds where the home side have a combined 26-6 win/loss record.

Not a bad effort considering we've got a few things to iron out between now and the business end of the season.

 

[DanA]

I haven't read through the thread so don't know if it's been mentioned but Josh Hunt was superb and he's another that I would have liked to have kept if there wasn't so many over 30's at the club. Jimmy is a good match up for him though. He'll never out body Hunt and won't run him into the ground either.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Never said they wouldn't. The only thing I want is only two selected; not three. Pick any combination you prefer.

Personally I prefer McIntosh and Blicavs, there's a bit of Robbie Warnock about Simpson, good with the hit outs but generally ineffective around the ground.

I think the midfielders are a part of it for sure. We think they're all great old and young, but all the young guys are promising and have their best years in front of them. They're not going to be clearance machines just yet.

On evidence this year, I doubt we are going to suddenly start winning clearance counts from now on. Hope I'm wrong but best case scenario appears to be improving this area in 2015

If opposition coaches realise that more than likely we will beat geelong at clearances, tagging our running HBF seriously curtails Geelongs ability to win, if we can't win it out of the middle and opp teams stop our run of half back... We then are relying on our back line to hold up the dam wall

 

[JUBJUB]

Wonder why Bundy missed?

Allen ChristensenVerified account‏@achristensen_28 Jul 18
All is well

just a little sniffle and cough that playing and hard work would only make worse #probablyjustsoft

 

[AM]

I went looking for the efficiency stats on our ruckmen's hitouts last week. To me, it seems as if Simpson is 10% better than HMac. I found- somewhere (but can't remember where) that he was only a few % ahead. unfortunately the stats are very sparse- and it doesn't tell you how many contests each ruckman presents at, e.g. a bloke who gets 20 hitouts out of 60 occasions is doing nowhere near as well as a bloke who hits 20 out of 30 contests, with 10 of them to advantage. I guess the stats are available to the coaches and they would know who is doing what. We can't meaningfully say that Blicavs has 100 less hitouts than McIntosh or Simpson without looking at how many stoppages and centre bounces he lines up at, compared with McIntosh. If I'm making sense? And then we look at the efficiency of the hitouts on top of that.

You're absolutely correct the club has access to far more player data than us along with specialists who know how to interpret it. Was more than a little surprised at the number of people beavering away taking stats at the VFL game today. Weren't all in the coaches box either. A very tasty piece working her cute butt off outside too. Sorry! A little distracted there.

Even taking into account the raw figures, the disparity in the hit outs to advantage was quite marked. HMac was 20 @ 20% to advantage. Dawson 20 @ 60% to advantage.

 

[DanA]

no Christensen and Blicavs is a lot of extra run through midfield missing. Wonder why Bundy missed?
Likely would have allowed us to hold a 3 goal lead late in the final term had they played.

Bundy had the flu/cold

 

[MarkCatsFan]

I'm far more worried about North Melbourne than what I am of Fremantle and Hawthorn coming up. The latter are tired and carrying some old aching bodies. North Melbourne were not prepared to run on Friday, more between the ears for that side which is why they are going to be set for us after we got them earlier in the season too.

North have been a real bogey team for us since 2012. I can definitely see them showing up again, especially at Etihad. Have had it pencilled in as an L all season, but I also think we will beat Freo and Hawthorn.

 

[Hello Kitty]

As winty would say... "Meh"

You stole my one word summary! winty's comment from last week has gone down in Cats Big Footy history

It was a bit like that again this week. Although, I have to say that being at the game it was great to see the action not shown on TV. Speaking of TV, I wish I could remember who posted recently just how much Varcoe does behind play a few of times last night he positioned himself to bump a Giants player away from position to either mark or intercept handballs, resulted in turnovers to our advantage.
Am curious why Varcoe was moved to our defence?

 

[Cat Addict]

After decades of watching football I'm comfortable with my ability to see reality - which is that Geelong's premiership window is probably shut, that they won 1 less flag than they might have, and that the 2007+ sides were some of the best ever in the VFL/AFL. Certainly at their best the football style and execution was a joy to watch - as non-Geelong fans remarked to me on numerous occasions. The likelihood of "our" slide won't stop me from supporting the Cats any more than some wet behind the ears BF supporter demanding total support will stop me from discussing the obvious, verbally with friends or on this forum. The one redeeming feature of our play has been that, with a fair bit of luck, we've managed to get over the line despite playing some junk football in the past couple of months. We could just as easily be marginal top 8 and we won't be top 4 without a massive improvement in attitude. Young players can develop bad habits and lose confidence quickly. I'll be more than pleasantly surprised if the lads beat North next up but unlike last year, which was an opportunity lost, I'm not expecting to see us at the big dance in 2014.

Not questioning your support, or demanding total blind support. Was just disagreeing with the fact about under achieving this year. We would all love to see the world beating style of 2008 return, but our team and footy as you well aware has changed forever.

Purely IMO I think our team is better than last year. We have 2 fit ruckman, a fit Hawkins, and guys like Rivers and Duncan playing better also. So I rate them as good of a chance this year as last. Is the opposition better, maybe, well have to see how it works out.

 

[Hello Kitty]

To put things into context, GWS did beat Sydney and got within 7 points of Hawthorn at the MCG earlier this year as well. They're not as bad as their record suggests.

Not at all + my concern was our team might approach the game with complacency? GWS had the youth + energy to play four quarters well. They show great prospect, which will keep them improving with more experience, like our Kittens + we need to remain mindful that we have many young guys, so well done Cats for staying high in the ladder.
I think too many expect too much from our team, rebuilding, setlting the side + we've had some horrible injuries. Let's keep it all in perspective + think, who would have thought that at Rd18, we'd be second on the ladder?

Why not enjoy it?

 

[Shai]

Anyone notice the bit of play where he almost got himself caught by the man on the mark, wheeled around him then just blazed long? Hawkins was royally pissed off and rightly so.

Did see this and agree but not sure about the wisdom of swapping him for Smedts..

 

[Seeds]

Personally I prefer McIntosh and Blicavs, there's a bit of Robbie Warnock about Simpson, good with the hit outs but generally ineffective around the ground.


On evidence this year, I doubt we are going to suddenly start winning clearance counts from now on. Hope I'm wrong but best case scenario appears to be improving this area in 2015

If opposition coaches realise that more than likely we will beat geelong at clearances, tagging our running HBF seriously curtails Geelongs ability to win, if we can't win it out of the middle and opp teams stop our run of half back... We then are relying on our back line to hold up the dam wall

Its a bit of a defeatist attitude you have there. We aren't doing well in an area so lets not try and focus on other areas???

We can't win a premiership without getting better at the clearances. It doesn't have to be our strength. But we have to get a lot better than we currently are. The first step is to put in the ruckman that gives us the best advantage. The second step (and most important) is to get our set ups right to read the ruck work and move the ball out of the area.

 

[Shai]

Yep Hartman back to the 2's bring back bundy

Blicvas for Simpson

And give Billy a chance over the next 2 -3 weeks to see if he can add something to the side, rest a few of the players who are struggling.

Who do you believe is in this category..?

 

[fpm84]

So we've been in a heavy training phase since Round 5?

We have played some terrific football since round 5 - premiership quality stuff against finalists in North Melbourne and Essendon, and dominant quarters against the likes of Bulldogs and Melbourne who have shown they can trouble good teams.

Our problem has been an inability to play four quarters. But certainly, our best is still as good as anybody else's.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Its a bit of a defeatist attitude you have there. We aren't doing well in an area so lets not try and focus on other areas???

We can't win a premiership without getting better at the clearances. It doesn't have to be our strength. But we have to get a lot better than we currently are. The first step is to put in the ruckman that gives us the best advantage. The second step (and most important) is to get our set ups right to read the ruck work and move the ball out of the area.

I never said we wouldn't or couldn't get better, just don't think that the potential improvement will see us suddenly winning clearance counts... Results so far suggest otherwise. I'd still prefer Hmac over Dawson.... and I have a feeling CS will go with him.

 

[Shai]

Jeez Guthrie looks good with his pressure acts!!

Not just that for mine, think he's consistently playing good football, doing the job that is asked of him and a little more each week..

 

[Spazz Cat]

Its a bit of a defeatist attitude you have there. We aren't doing well in an area so lets not try and focus on other areas???

We can't win a premiership without getting better at the clearances. It doesn't have to be our strength. But we have to get a lot better than we currently are. The first step is to put in the ruckman that gives us the best advantage. The second step (and most important) is to get our set ups right to read the ruck work and move the ball out of the area.

I don't think we should worry bout clearances too much. Come finals well probably put Bartel,Kelly and Selwood around the ball. Guthrie to half back. Problem solved!

 

[FredLeDeux]

I don't think we should worry bout clearances too much. Come finals well probably put Bartel,Kelly and Selwood around the ball. Guthrie to half back. Problem solved!

I think Guthrie will be playing in the middle. It's one of the very few, if any, MC decisions I would nearly be prepared to bet on.
I also think we'll continue to be whacked in clearances, and will continue to play around the problem as we have for the past 2-3 seasons.

 

[David the Cat]

Agreed Fred…..Guthrie is destined for the midfield role for large parts of games now.

And looks the goods too! One hell of a pick up for Geelong.