Review AFL Round 18 autopsy - GWS Giants defeated by Geelong by 7 points

[FredLeDeux]

I would bet that Lonergan has been given more frees against him than anyone playing on Hawkins- and I see less of him holding jumpers than I do of Hawkins getting held off the ball.

Probably right on both counts, though I think Lonners is very skilled at subtly holding the elbow (Bruce Doull, anyone?).
The truth is that the mistreatment of all good big forwards by umpires is a standing blot on the game.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I read somewhere that the Geelong Footy club has surpassed ASIO as the hardest place to get a clearance in Australia now.

BS, I reckon you just made that up.

 

[Pivo]

BS, I reckon you just made that up.

Probably still true though.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Probably still true though.

Definitely.

 

[Seeds]

Keep your pants on. I said our form is disappointing, not that winning is disappointing.

Recent form:

L Belted by Port
W Scraping past Richmond
L Comfortably beaten by Freo
W Scraping past North Melbourne
L One of our worst losses in history to Sydney
W Scraping past Carlton by continually letting them back in the game
W Smashing St Kilda (equal last, percentage of 61%)
L Losing to Gold Coast by 40 points
W Scraping past Essendon after going to sleep for the third quarter when the game should have been over
W Scraping past the Bulldogs (14th)
W Half a game's effort vs Melbourne (equal last, percentage of 72%) followed by slacking off for a half
W Almost losing to GWS (equal last on the ladder, percentage of 73%)

So since round 6 that's:

3 heavy losses to other top 4 aspirants
1 heavy loss to a team currently placed 9th
2 beltings of the teams placed 16th and 18th
6 games where we've scraped over the line mostly due to a lack of sustained effort allowing very mediocre teams to come back at us repeatedly

That is not an 'occasional bad game'. That is a run of ****house form where we have not displayed a single four quarter effort against quality opposition in three months.

even though youve biased how far youve gone back to maximise your argument thats still 8 wins and four losses. A close win is still form that aint disapointing unless anything but being the best is disapointing. thumping bottom of the road teams these days is also no easy task and requires good form these days. Look what those two teams did on Saturday.

Why does the Port game count and the hawks game doesnt when measuring current form? they were 6 days apart 3 months ago.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

I love the argument of "we are only just beating the crap teams!", yep, we are. While other top 4 teams lose to them.
That's why we are second.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Keep your pants on. I said our form is disappointing, not that winning is disappointing.

Recent form:

L Belted by Port
W Scraping past Richmond
L Comfortably beaten by Freo
W Scraping past North Melbourne
L One of our worst losses in history to Sydney
W Scraping past Carlton by continually letting them back in the game
W Smashing St Kilda (equal last, percentage of 61%)
L Losing to Gold Coast by 40 points
W Scraping past Essendon after going to sleep for the third quarter when the game should have been over
W Scraping past the Bulldogs (14th)
W Half a game's effort vs Melbourne (equal last, percentage of 72%) followed by slacking off for a half
W Almost losing to GWS (equal last on the ladder, percentage of 73%)

So since round 6 that's:

3 heavy losses to other top 4 aspirants
1 heavy loss to a team currently placed 9th
2 beltings of the teams placed 16th and 18th
6 games where we've scraped over the line mostly due to a lack of sustained effort allowing very mediocre teams to come back at us repeatedly

That is not an 'occasional bad game'. That is a run of ****house form where we have not displayed a single four quarter effort against quality opposition in three months.

the Bolded is all that matters.

FWIW we didn't just scrape by NM, we had the game in control all night, and led by 41 at the 5min mark of the last. They got a couple of junk time goals which made it look respectable, but in reality they were well beaten.

Bulldogs game we had control of the whole game. Same with Richmond as we had control for all of the game. Again all that matters is the W

 

[Serpounce]

Does anyone have a view on Murdoch (apologies if it has been discussed earlier)

Foy my mind he does not do enough, goes missing for large parts, would not know a contested ball if it hit in the face and not

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Does anyone have a view on Murdoch (apologies if it has been discussed earlier)

Foy my mind he does not do enough, goes missing for large parts, would not know a contested ball if it hit in the face and not

I like a lot of his attributes, and if he can put them all together consistently, I think he could be a real weapon for us in the not so distant future. That said, he is in some pretty ordinary form at the moment, and I would be in favour of sending him back to the VFL to find some touch, bringing in either Schroeder or McCarthy to play at Hawkins'/Kersten's feet.

 

[cats_09]

Does anyone have a view on Murdoch (apologies if it has been discussed earlier)

Foy my mind he does not do enough, goes missing for large parts, would not know a contested ball if it hit in the face and not

I wonder if it is just a case of a long season and he is starting to feel it - in 2012 he played 8 games, last year he played 11 and this year he has played all 17 games, so hopefully this weekend off will help him refresh a bit and run out the season in better form then he has shown the last 4 or 5 weeks.
I don't think it would have hurt to have managed his game time a bit better, used him as sub or sub him off if not having a week off during the season to allow him to keep fresh because going from 11 games to it seems they are anticipating 20+ will take stepping up to.

 

[caitsith01]

even though youve biased how far youve gone back to maximise your argument thats still 8 wins and four losses. A close win is still form that aint disapointing unless anything but being the best is disapointing. thumping bottom of the road teams these days is also no easy task and requires good form these days. Look what those two teams did on Saturday.

Why does the Port game count and the hawks game doesnt when measuring current form? they were 6 days apart 3 months ago.

I listed our continuous run of recent form, which has been crap. Our only good wins in that run have been against cellar dwellers.

Rounds 1-5 were much, much better. No conspiracy in not listing them, my point was that you can draw a straight line of crap form back to round 6.

Not thumping crap teams is why our percentage is so bad that we are effectively a game behind everyone else.

 

[caitsith01]

the Bolded is all that matters.

FWIW we didn't just scrape by NM, we had the game in control all night, and led by 41 at the 5min mark of the last. They got a couple of junk time goals which made it look respectable, but in reality they were well beaten.

Bulldogs game we had control of the whole game. Same with Richmond as we had control for all of the game. Again all that matters is the W

Nope. The wins that matter are in September. No point qualifying for the finals only to get murdered. You might recall this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_A...d_elimination_final_.28Geelong_v_Fremantle.29

and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_A...nd_qualifying_final_.28Geelong_v_Fremantle.29

and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_AFL_finals_series#First_preliminary_final_.28Hawthorn_v_Geelong.29

I guess people just see what they want to see. I see a team playing pretty bad football but with enough talent and experience to get over the line against relatively crap opposition. What I want to see is a team that is obviously better in both talent and workrate than its opposition - the latter has been missing for many weeks now.

I really, really hope C. Scott has a masterplan to bring back some of that early season form. I guess we'll know a lot more after we play North, Hawks and Freo.

If the boys are under a "heavy training load" they better be the fittest team of all time come finals to justify current output.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

Jesus F Christ you can't please some people can you.
So, the Cats first made a prelim in 2004. Won Premierships in 2007, 2009 and 2011 while competing for them all years since and between apart from 2006.
While doing so beating the "system" the AFL has engineered to ensure those teams who do hit the top quickly head towards the bottom (case in point: Saints, Dogs and Port, who are now heading on the up).
Now is 2014. We sit second on the ladder when we should be fighting it out for second last, with old players and young rookies and not much in between, again during years the AFL tells us all should be cellar dwelling years.
And yet you still sook about it?!
I don't care if we bomb out in the finals, the fact we will be there AGAIN is a massive achievement on it's own let alone being in a position to actually win the damn thing.
Just the fact we sit 2nd on the ladder as a challenger for the flag an entire decade after we started becoming a force is enough to fill me with pride, the fact we have done so with the greatest ever winning margin for any period of time you wish to use, while playing arguably some of the greatest football we are likely to see, with zero concessions that other clubs around us are given, is simply amazing.
You want to sook about success? Go follow Melbourne.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

Sorry for the rant, it isn't particularly directed at any one poster.
I'm just getting sick of the overt pessimism I keep reading on this board.
We sit 2nd (or 3rd) on the ladder on 13-4 after playing every other team once, some at a disadvantage (6 day breaks traveling interstate etc) playing ordinary football, during a year that we shouldn't even be thinking finals while we rebuild from one of the Greatest eras in memory.
I can't be anything but optimistic.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Nope. The wins that matter are in September. No point qualifying for the finals only to get murdered. You might recall this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_A...d_elimination_final_.28Geelong_v_Fremantle.29

and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_A...nd_qualifying_final_.28Geelong_v_Fremantle.29

and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_AFL_finals_series#First_preliminary_final_.28Hawthorn_v_Geelong.29

I guess people just see what they want to see. I see a team playing pretty bad football but with enough talent and experience to get over the line against relatively crap opposition. What I want to see is a team that is obviously better in both talent and workrate than its opposition - the latter has been missing for many weeks now.

I really, really hope C. Scott has a masterplan to bring back some of that early season form. I guess we'll know a lot more after we play North, Hawks and Freo.

If the boys are under a "heavy training load" they better be the fittest team of all time come finals to justify current output.

I struggle to comprehend why you provided links to finals series of seasons past. This won't help or influence what happens for the remainder of this year, all it does is highlight the failures of seasons past, but does not glean anything about what will happen later in the year... That is the giant unknown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_AFL_season#Finals_series

There you go, there's the finals series that matters... not 2013... not 2012... but 2014.... and so far in 2014 we have a respectable 13-4 record and currently (but not necessarily at the end of r18) sit 2nd on the ladder.

As for your point about getting murdered, then we might as well reduce it back to a finals system of only 4 teams, as teams 5-8 never win the flag and are more likely to get murdered in september

I see a side that is playing at about 65% capacity and yet having played every side once, and is better than 15 or 16 teams.... Scary prospect if we start playing close to 100%, I would have thought.

I had a discussion with Bobby_ about our prospects for the remainder of this year and finals. Freo is the only side I lack confidence in beating come September, especially in Perth

The Sydney loss despite its magnitude was an aberration, a couple of key outs + no caddy/bundy.... Combined with the worst display of skills I have seen from the cats for a while, fumbles etc.

Hawthorn I will always be confident of beating, to the point where putting a bet on the cats winning doesn't even seem a gamble, more like free money!

The only time I will be a bit worried is Freo in Perth, having been to our last 2 finals against Freo, they appear to have our measure... and personally I have not much idea on how to rectify that problem.

As for the rest (whoever makes it) Collingwood/NM/GC(without Ablett)/Adelaide/Essendon, I am confident we can beat any of those sides in Victoria.

Port is the side I'm struggling to get a read on, any ideas? Hopefully they're recent fading continues because we were comprehensively beaten by them with their spread and speed, albeit at the AO.

For me though, the manner in which we play, the manner in which we win from now until finals will dictate my confidence levels. If we kick on from the Melbourne game with solid performances, this could become a good September, if we revert to our 'stuck in 2nd gear' form then things might have to fall our way a bit

So I'll back the boys to win in any game bar Freo in Perth, not that they're not good enough to win... Just I think CS gets out coached by Lyon.

**regaining Stokes will be important too**

Jesus F Christ you can't please some people can you.
So, the Cats first made a prelim in 2004. Won Premierships in 2007, 2009 and 2011 while competing for them all years since and between apart from 2006.
While doing so beating the "system" the AFL has engineered to ensure those teams who do hit the top quickly head towards the bottom (case in point: Saints, Dogs and Port, who are now heading on the up).
Now is 2014. We sit second on the ladder when we should be fighting it out for second last, with old players and young rookies and not much in between, again during years the AFL tells us all should be cellar dwelling years.
And yet you still sook about it?!
I don't care if we bomb out in the finals, the fact we will be there AGAIN is a massive achievement on it's own let alone being in a position to actually win the damn thing.
Just the fact we sit 2nd on the ladder as a challenger for the flag an entire decade after we started becoming a force is enough to fill me with pride, the fact we have done so with the greatest ever winning margin for any period of time you wish to use, while playing arguably some of the greatest football we are likely to see, with zero concessions that other clubs around us are given, is simply amazing.
You want to sook about success? Go follow Melbourne.

Only missed finals once since 2004.... says it all really

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Sorry for the rant, it isn't particularly directed at any one poster.
I'm just getting sick of the overt pessimism I keep reading on this board.
We sit 2nd (or 3rd) on the ladder on 13-4 after playing every other team once, some at a disadvantage (6 day breaks traveling interstate etc) playing ordinary football, during a year that we shouldn't even be thinking finals while we rebuild from one of the Greatest eras in memory.
I can't be anything but optimistic.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/afl-2014-ladder-predictions.1038901/

Having read this thread over the course of the season, not many tipped us to be inside the 4 (they may yet be proven right... but fingers crossed they're not) let alone top 2... So we have exceeded the expectations of not just us cats fans (sometimes one eyed) but also opposition fans as well. I'm with you this season fill me with pride regardless on the result of finals.

 

[Cattery]

The game was almost predictable, delivering with equal parts frustration, despair, boredom and an ultimately empty feeling.

This is the AFL's expanded 'competition' - a wider, weaker spread of playing talent which can see even a so-so team like we currently are sitting 2nd on the ladder. Boring games with no atmosphere against fabricated, soulless teams at the tail end of a looong season.

I only really watched this game out of a sense of duty, because I was %100 sure going in that it was going to be a tedious match.
Footy shouldn't be like that.

One of the most depressing posts I've read on here for some time, unfortunately also one of the most accurate.

Reckon we've played one decent quarter of footy out of our last six, not sure whether the fact we're sitting second on the ladder is a testament to our resilience or a damning indictment on the state of the competition.

If we serve up what we have in the last few weeks we won't remain in the top four for long, just hoping that after the break some quality opposition will bring out the best in the cats and we can return to the form we displayed in the first five weeks of the season, do that and we're a chance against anyone.

The class is still there, just need some of the bottom tier players (Caddy, Murdoch, Kersten etc) to contribute more and who knows, we may prove the doubters wrong once again.

 

[Cursed Cat]

ah; sorry to bring you down Cattery !
agree with your post, too, btw

 

[Shai]

The class is still there, just need some of the bottom tier players (Caddy, Murdoch, Kersten etc) to contribute more and who knows, we may prove the doubters wrong once again.

Thought Caddy stepped it up again on the w/end and can only improve, imo the other 2 were ok as well but can also improve..

 

[candiehappy]

Thought Caddy stepped it up again on the w/end and can only improve, imo the other 2 were ok as well but can also improve..

Kersten was Ok'ish, but not his best. Have to be realistic after only a handful of games. I liked Caddy's game, he'll improve.

 

[dazbroncos]

Is anyone suggesting they're not good enough? Most are commenting aboiut our arroga

My guess is that most of those who express their dissatisfaction at what they're seeing are, like me, long time followers of footy and supporters of Geelong. I was probably supporting them before some of the "anti-whinging" brigade was born so the argument that "we've been spoilt" and are "setting the bar too high" based on the last 7 years is nothing more than trash talk from johnny-come-latelys as far as I'm concerned. This team, with all its limitations, is capable of FAR better than it's currently producing. Both coach and players have to bear the responsibility for that. Personally I have zero expectation that Boris, Jimmy, Kells, SJ and co will be at the top of their game even 3 weeks out of four. Nor will they be able to chase and run down the league's younger players. Simple fact of life. As long as the effort is there and the coaching realistic no-one can complain. BOTH need significant attention imo. In 2007 the effort against North at home was the catalyst for some soul searching. Something similar wouldn't go astray now. I doubt if we have the talent and ability to match it with the other "contenders" but we can do 100% better than the rubbish which has been rolled out now for months.

Ive sat thru 34 years of supporting Geelong. Put me in whatever category you want. Bottom line is Ive seen some great Geelong sides fail to get it done. Im very happy with the last 8 years and I expect more greatness. But im also willing to accept that what I've seen over the last 8 years has never been seen before in terms of % of success and that it is gonna have ebbs and flows. If the bottom dips can be minimized then i'm all for it - lets be competitive every year but im not toss the dummy if we aren't. It is just not possible to be Cats of 07 every year.

Go Catters

 

[son of meto]

And Chris Scott wants respect...LOL

 

[Cataholic]

And Chris Scott wants respect...LOL

What??

We've played every side, and right now we're sitting second on the ladder.

No matter how people might trash talk us, they can't deny that fact.

He's well within his rights to ask for respect.

 

[candiehappy]

And Chris Scott wants respect...LOL

and why shouldn't he ?

 

[Seeds]

I listed our continuous run of recent form, which has been crap. Our only good wins in that run have been against cellar dwellers.

Rounds 1-5 were much, much better. No conspiracy in not listing them, my point was that you can draw a straight line of crap form back to round 6.

Not thumping crap teams is why our percentage is so bad that we are effectively a game behind everyone else.

Would you rather we have a higher percentage but one less win like Port and Freo? There high percentage is really helping them with their ladder position relative to us.

Form only matters leading in to finals. Up until now it is irrelevant after you take account of wins and losess. If we were playing like this leading into September I would be disappointed. But lets come to that when we get there.