Review AFL Round 18 autopsy - GWS Giants defeated by Geelong by 7 points

[Partridge]

And Chris Scott wants respect...LOL

Don't know why any coach craves respect. Wins are enough I would have thought.

 

[candiehappy]

Don't know why any coach craves respect. Wins are enough I would have thought.

possibly because they are human beings and we all ( or most) want respect for the role we perform.

Roos can have respect for his job winning a flag, or winning 4 games.

 

[caitsith01]

Would you rather we have a higher percentage but one less win like Port and Freo? There high percentage is really helping them with their ladder position relative to us.

Form only matters leading in to finals. Up until now it is irrelevant after you take account of wins and losess. If we were playing like this leading into September I would be disappointed. But lets come to that when we get there.

No, I'd rather have a higher percentage and the same win/loss ratio we have now.

I'm confident that if/when we get to the lead in to finals and our form is still bad you'll have some other reason why no-one is allowed to say that our form is poor...

Don't get me wrong. I want us to go deep in the finals. But IMHO the evidence at the moment suggests we'll get there, then get spanked by a team that plays 4 quarters of contested footy. Hoping form does turn around - there aren't that many rounds left.

 

[jacross]

If you ain't first your last.

I look at the team on the top of the ladder, remember the last time we played them, remember that my mate supports them, and I shudder.

Being 2nd is nice. It gives you the double chance. However, we aren't playing premiership winning footy and that's the bottom line. I'm hoping we get into some great form heading into finals.

 

[Magnus McFysh]

They missed some goals late that could have won it for them. We missed some goals early that could have put it out of reach. Swings and roundabouts. When we needed some composure in the last, we found it with a couple of steadying marks coming out of defence.

GWS played a lot better than I expected given their outs, short turn around and flight back from Perth. They will be scary good in a few years. They also play us well (level at 1/4 & 1/2 time at Kardi in 2012 and a kick in it at 3/4 time last year) they don't get run over so much in the last now either.

We won. Take the four points and run. Others can't say the same this weekend.

 

[YY_Cat]

I don't think we should worry bout clearances too much. Come finals well probably put Bartel,Kelly and Selwood around the ball. Guthrie to half back. Problem solved!

No, no, no. I remember we played like that last time with Swans at SCG.

 

[Partridge]

No, no, no. I remember we played like that last time with Swans at SCG.

Bartel and Kelly are simply too old and too slow now to play midfield every week. Now and again sure. But people have to recognise they aren't 26-year-olds anymore.

 

[Vdubs]

Don't know why any coach craves respect. Wins are enough I would have thought.

What is the context for CS wanting respect?
I realise it wasn't you that made the comment, but questioning minors has not been fruitful for me.

 

[Catastic82]

Jesus F Christ you can't please some people can you.
So, the Cats first made a prelim in 2004. Won Premierships in 2007, 2009 and 2011 while competing for them all years since and between apart from 2006.
While doing so beating the "system" the AFL has engineered to ensure those teams who do hit the top quickly head towards the bottom (case in point: Saints, Dogs and Port, who are now heading on the up).
Now is 2014. We sit second on the ladder when we should be fighting it out for second last, with old players and young rookies and not much in between, again during years the AFL tells us all should be cellar dwelling years.
And yet you still sook about it?!
I don't care if we bomb out in the finals, the fact we will be there AGAIN is a massive achievement on it's own let alone being in a position to actually win the damn thing.
Just the fact we sit 2nd on the ladder as a challenger for the flag an entire decade after we started becoming a force is enough to fill me with pride, the fact we have done so with the greatest ever winning margin for any period of time you wish to use, while playing arguably some of the greatest football we are likely to see, with zero concessions that other clubs around us are given, is simply amazing.
You want to sook about success? Go follow Melbourne.

All good points, however I would hate to see the club waste an opportunity to go hard for the flag .

Let's face it last year was a major disappointment , I want redemption.

 

[Whit3y]

I see a side that is playing at about 65% capacity

why is that do you think?
can't be arsed attitude?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

why is that do you think?
can't be arsed attitude?

That is a question for CS, I have no idea why. Anyway it doesn't concern me too much.

We're not playing as badly as some might suggest. As I mentioned earlier in this thread all that matters is the W

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Don't know why any coach craves respect. Wins are enough I would have thought.

On the topic of wins CS has won just a tick over 78% of games as coach! he may not crave respect but he has mine regardless

 

[vinum coupe]

That is a question for CS, I have no idea why. Anyway it doesn't concern me too much.

We're not playing as badly as some might suggest. As I mentioned earlier in this thread all that matters is the W

We aren't playing badly at all. Just not sure our standard is good enough to win multiple finals.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

We aren't playing badly at all. Just not sure our standard is good enough to win multiple finals.

and tbh I won't be disappointed if we don't win multiple finals. I will be disappointed if we lose a GF... again!.... But we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.

However as I replied to someone earlier in this thread, the fact that we are where we are a decade after playing the all conquering Brisbane team in a PF (which our coach was a part of ) fills me with pride.... Regardless of what the remainder of 2014 has in store for the GFC

 

[DanA]

We've had three big wins this season and so brutal losses so I can understand why people don't consider us in the same light as Sydney Hawthorn or Fremantle. Still we are up there in the top 4 and we've got a fit list. We just need to find a way to be a middle of the road in clearances rather than the second worst. If we can do that and I think it's possible then we're in with a shot at the flag.

 

[vinum coupe]

What I am happy about though is that Scott is definitely trying to find the right formula.
Moving players like Varcoe down back to generate run. Fiddling with the ruck setup etc.
He is tweaking that's for sure. So he's not under any illusions. Which is a good thing!

 

[JUBJUB]

He is tweaking that's for sure.

 

[OzeSparky]

What I am happy about though is that Scott is definitely trying to find the right formula.
Moving players like Varcoe down back to generate run. Fiddling with the ruck setup etc.
He is tweaking that's for sure. So he's not under any illusions. Which is a good thing!

Lets hope he doesn't bring Billie back.

 

[vinum coupe]

Lets hope he doesn't bring Billie back.

I reckon you will see that.
It's interesting that he is so intent on going tall down back.
Yet he throws Varcoe down there and leaves Bews out. He is working on something. I have no doubt.

 

[OzeSparky]

He reckon you will see that.
It's interesting that he is so intent on going tall down back.
Yet he throws Varcoe down there and leaves Bews out. He is working on something. I have no doubt.

He obviously trying to get the team to match Sydney.
Franklin, Reid, Goodes, Tippett and Pyke

Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Rivers, Blicavs

 

[vinum coupe]

He obviously trying to get the team to match Sydney.
Franklin, Reid, Goodes, Tippett and Pyke

Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Rivers, Blicavs

No I don't think that. They only play Sydney once or twice a year.
I'm honestly not sure why he is doing it though. But it seems he realises we lack pace down back.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

We've had three big wins this season and so brutal losses so I can understand why people don't consider us in the same light as Sydney Hawthorn or Fremantle. Still we are up there in the top 4 and we've got a fit list. We just need to find a way to be a middle of the road in clearances rather than the second worst. If we can do that and I think it's possible then we're in with a shot at the flag.

What I am happy about though is that Scott is definitely trying to find the right formula.
Moving players like Varcoe down back to generate run. Fiddling with the ruck setup etc.
He is tweaking that's for sure. So he's not under any illusions. Which is a good thing!

After Partridge made mention a few days ago of the ruckmen and their Hitout numbers so far this season, I decided to find out more about our clearance numbers which haven't been great this year.

On 9 occasions we have played with all 3 recognised ruckmen (Simpson, McIntosh and Blicavs) and it has yielded clearance differentials of 4, -7*, -1*, 4*, 1#, 0, -18, -13, -20. for an average differential of -5.55

On 5 occasions we have played with (McIntosh and Blicavs) as the ruck combo which has resulted in clearance differentials of -10#, 5, -12#, -21#, 8* for an average differential of -6

On 2 occasions we have played with (Simpson and Blicavs) as the ruckmen and the clearance differentials were -7* and 3 for an average differential of -2

and on 1 occasion (last game vs GWS) we have gone in with the ruck combo of (Simpson and McIntosh) which resulted in a clearance differential of -12#




* denotes a match where we played one of the 5 worst clearance teams (apart from us who are 17th in this category) which are ( Melbourne, Collingwood, Brisbane, St.Kilda, West Coast)
# denotes a match where we played a top 5 clearance team. which are (Hawthorn, GC, GWS, WB and Port Adelaide)




So which combination is better?

on the surface Simpson and McIntosh who are our big no.1 rucks have the worst average, but that was against a top 5 clearance side (GWS) with a very good ruckmen in Mumford ( who I wish we still had )

Simpson and Blicavs combination has the best average, but were beaten in clearances in one of the two games together by a bottom 5 clearance team (St.Kilda), but it is probably too small a sample size so far to know definitively how effective/ineffective they operate together.

The all 3 ruckmen combination has been tried the most and yet considering 3 of the 5 worst clearance sides featured this combination, the fact they don't have the best differential doesn't fill me with confidence, also has to be noted the # result was against Hawthorn (who are the best clearance side).

However 3 large negative differentials against middle of the road clearance teams is not flattering either.

Lastly we have the McIntosh and Blicavs combo which has featured 5 times and on 3 of them against top 5 clearance sides ( is that CS showing his hand over which combo he prefers against good clearance teams?? who knows). They appear to perform quite well against teams that are not top 5 clearance teams but are well beaten against teams that are.

As of today the current top 8 ranks accordingly in terms of clearances.

• Hawthorn (1st)
• Geelong (17th)
• Sydney (7th)
• Fremantle (8th)
• Essendon (11th)
• Port Adelaide (5th)
• North Melbourne (12th)
• Collingwood (16th)

So maybe as you suggest DanA if we can find a combination that will be able to make us a middle of the road clearance team against the above teams, then we will be in with a shot for a flag, but what combination will work the best against those teams??

 

[Shai]

I reckon you will see that.
It's interesting that he is so intent on going tall down back.
Yet he throws Varcoe down there and leaves Bews out. He is working on something. I have no doubt.

Rewatching the '11 GF made me remember how good TV was as a crumber yet when we now really need some1 to step up in that role he is still playing mostly @ the other end. His run off the back is very good & apart from mistakes (he's not the Lone Ranger there) he has improved that area.
I made a comment in the vs NM thread asking how many games since he hasn't put his body in, no bites so guess that's improved as well..

 

[Teriyakicat]

We've had three big wins this season and so brutal losses so I can understand why people don't consider us in the same light as Sydney Hawthorn or Fremantle. Still we are up there in the top 4 and we've got a fit list. We just need to find a way to be a middle of the road in clearances rather than the second worst. If we can do that and I think it's possible then we're in with a shot at the flag.

I'm not sure what the big deal is about clearances. I think the average number we concede per game is something like 2.5 ???
Yeah, I know we can be 20 down in some games and 20 up in others... but we seem to be tracking OK despite this apparently insurmountable problem

 

[Teriyakicat]

After Partridge made mention a few days ago of the ruckmen and their Hitout numbers so far this season, I decided to find out more about our clearance numbers which haven't been great this year.

On 9 occasions we have played with all 3 recognised ruckmen (Simpson, McIntosh and Blicavs) and it has yielded clearance differentials of 4, -7*, -1*, 4*, 1#, 0, -18, -13, -20. for an average differential of -5.55

On 5 occasions we have played with (McIntosh and Blicavs) as the ruck combo which has resulted in clearance differentials of -10#, 5, -12#, -21#, 8* for an average differential of -6

On 2 occasions we have played with (Simpson and Blicavs) as the ruckmen and the clearance differentials were -7* and 3 for an average differential of -2

and on 1 occasion (last game vs GWS) we have gone in with the ruck combo of (Simpson and McIntosh) which resulted in a clearance differential of -12#




* denotes a match where we played one of the 5 worst clearance teams (apart from us who are 17th in this category) which are ( Melbourne, Collingwood, Brisbane, St.Kilda, West Coast)
# denotes a match where we played a top 5 clearance team. which are (Hawthorn, GC, GWS, WB and Port Adelaide)




So which combination is better?

on the surface Simpson and McIntosh who are our big no.1 rucks have the worst average, but that was against a top 5 clearance side (GWS) with a very good ruckmen in Mumford ( who I wish we still had )

Simpson and Blicavs combination has the best average, but were beaten in clearances in one of the two games together by a bottom 5 clearance team (St.Kilda), but it is probably too small a sample size so far to know definitively how effective/ineffective they operate together.

The all 3 ruckmen combination has been tried the most and yet considering 3 of the 5 worst clearance sides featured this combination, the fact they don't have the best differential doesn't fill me with confidence, also has to be noted the # result was against Hawthorn (who are the best clearance side).

However 3 large negative differentials against middle of the road clearance teams is not flattering either.

Lastly we have the McIntosh and Blicavs combo which has featured 5 times and on 3 of them against top 5 clearance sides ( is that CS showing his hand over which combo he prefers against good clearance teams?? who knows). They appear to perform quite well against teams that are not top 5 clearance teams but are well beaten against teams that are.

As of today the current top 8 ranks accordingly in terms of clearances.

• Hawthorn (1st)
• Geelong (17th)
• Sydney (7th)
• Fremantle (8th)
• Essendon (11th)
• Port Adelaide (5th)
• North Melbourne (12th)
• Collingwood (16th)

So maybe as you suggest DanA if we can find a combination that will be able to make us a middle of the road clearance team against the above teams, then we will be in with a shot for a flag, but what combination will work the best against those teams??

Great work, NSFB. Doesn't really immediately give an answer to our problem but it seems that, looking at those ladder positions vs clearance stats, clearances are only part of the picture and possibly can help a team that's a little poorer around the ground get a leg up, while a team that's stronger around the ground manages to get away with being fairly average in the middle and at stoppages. I know that our stoppage numbers have been very poor this year, which means that teams wanting to exploit that weakness will just force stoppages as much as possible.

I guess it's more what happens after the clearances that is important. No point in clearing the ball if we lose it two handpasses later.

One thing that I'm pleased about is that I haven't seen as many goals kicked against us in the opposition 50 after a ball up. Might just be my imagination but we seem to do those a bit better than last year.