Review AFL Round 21 autopsy - Carlton defeated by Geelong by 6 points

[Herne Hill Hammer]

You are spoton with this post on all points. My son reckons Rivers is no good, but now I am starting to think my son is crazy.

He gets it from his mum.

If not top 3 then I reckon top 5 at worst in the b&f.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Not to mention Caddy missed 2 sitters, Blitz the same, Bundy from 25 on the run. That is at least 4 gimmes we should have had. And Hawk missed 5.

Nuff said.
Go Catters

But there's 5 separate threads devoted to Trav, who missed one...
Oh- and gave up the chase...
Oops- probably shouldn't have mentioned him, should I?

 

[JUBJUB]

You are spoton with this post on all points. My son reckons Rivers is no good, but now I am starting to think my son is crazy.

He gets it from his mum.

You're only just starting to think this after 21 rounds,which Rivers has been very good in most ?
Might want to get yourself tested while testing the son.

 

[00VicWard001]

But there's 5 separate threads devoted to Trav, who missed one...
Oh- and gave up the chase...
Oops- probably shouldn't have mentioned him, should I?

After a while certain vitriol and animosity looks to be personal than objective.

Clearly, and thankfully, CS and the MC look at a thousand other things (as professionals) when deciding on the team. And guess what? We've only lost 4 games this year.

 

[00VicWard001]

Adding to this, there are things that an experienced player does and knows that a new player cannot even comprehend. Varcoe has 100 plus games of experience in formation, in setups, in plays, in big games. He's won games for us and he's saved games. He knows the way each of his team mates play. He knows where to be and what to do in each situation of the game. This is only gained through years of training, years of pre-seasons, years of weekly video analysis, coaching, and obviously years of playing at senior level.

So what if Hartman got 30 possessions in the VFL? He might have excellent physical ability, but he still doesn't have the experience to slot in seamlessly into a top 3 team going for a premiership at a senior level. He could go kick-hunting in the AFL and completely stuff up team structures, I remember Ablett getting caned on here after the 2010 prelim against Collingwood.

The only way players are going to get dropped is if they don't do certain non-negotiables associated with their roles.

So what if Varcoe couldn't chase Yarran down. Join the club. Rioli couldn't chase Jetta down either and that was in a grand final. It's not because he didn't feel like it, it's more likely because he had done 3 repeat sprints of 400m up and down the ground - getting into positions that his coach and team wanted him in.

There were far more positives than negatives. I recall seeing far more kicking from him during the game too. And he was hitting targets coming out of the backline.

If the coach thinks that Kersten is doing his job (without taking grabs or kicking goals) or that Hawkins played well (after missing 5 shots) then he likely thinks that Varcoe is doing his job too. And CS and the match committee would know exactly what was required by the team. They may not get it 100% right, but that's okay too. It's an environment with a multitude of ever-changing variables. I suspect that what they want to control is what they can actually control. And that goes back to team discipline, structures and roles. If the ball spills from Kersten attempting a mark, then that's okay. At least he was in the right position. If Tomahawk misses 5 goals, that's okay, because at least he was able to take 5 shots.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

A Geelong supporter would be more safe in Gaza right now than on the main board.There's bombs coming from every direction.......and it's fun

You thought we were copping it on the main board.

I'm so glad that having just been reading the Carlton board, that no geelong posters went there (like Bobby), would have been torn down in 5 seconds. It's like Chernobyl in there atm.

Slightly satisfying though to see the usual Dawk fans flocking to our opponents board to whinge, but there is still quite a few norf/freo flogs with a bit of offended

 

[The rabbi]

No thanks, seeing the live show last night was enough.

Yep, a bloke about 40 was sooking like a little girl about how "the umpires got Geelong over the line again". He was ranting at the top of his voice to all around us as we departed our seats. It was hard not to have a little chuckle to myself.

 

[The rabbi]

Get over it Samuel.

I still love you Meto.
In my own Ned Flanders, Christian, and may I stress...non penetrative way.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Yep, a bloke about 40 was sooking like a little girl about how "the umpires got Geelong over the line again". He was ranting at the top of his voice to all around us as we departed our seats. It was hard not to have a little chuckle to myself.

You have superb self-control, rabbi! I salute you!!

 

[dazbroncos]

Adding to this, there are things that an experienced player does and knows that a new player cannot even comprehend. Varcoe has 100 plus games of experience in formation, in setups, in plays, in big games. He's won games for us and he's saved games. He knows the way each of his team mates play. He knows where to be and what to do in each situation of the game. This is only gained through years of training, years of pre-seasons, years of weekly video analysis, coaching, and obviously years of playing at senior level.

So what if Hartman got 30 possessions in the VFL? He might have excellent physical ability, but he still doesn't have the experience to slot in seamlessly into a top 3 team going for a premiership at a senior level. He could go kick-hunting in the AFL and completely stuff up team structures, I remember Ablett getting caned on here after the 2010 prelim against Collingwood.

The only way players are going to get dropped is if they don't do certain non-negotiables associated with their roles.

So what if Varcoe couldn't chase Yarran down. Join the club. Rioli couldn't chase Jetta down either and that was in a grand final. It's not because he didn't feel like it, it's more likely because he had done 3 repeat sprints of 400m up and down the ground - getting into positions that his coach and team wanted him in.

There were far more positives than negatives. I recall seeing far more kicking from him during the game too. And he was hitting targets coming out of the backline.

If the coach thinks that Kersten is doing his job (without taking grabs or kicking goals) or that Hawkins played well (after missing 5 shots) then he likely thinks that Varcoe is doing his job too. And CS and the match committee would know exactly what was required by the team. They may not get it 100% right, but that's okay too. It's an environment with a multitude of ever-changing variables. I suspect that what they want to control is what they can actually control. And that goes back to team discipline, structures and roles. If the ball spills from Kersten attempting a mark, then that's okay. At least he was in the right position. If Tomahawk misses 5 goals, that's okay, because at least he was able to take 5 shots.

My point on the Yarran chase was not so much that TV didn't get him - I get that - but it looked IMO he quit in the run. Not many can even keep pace with him so I get not getting to him to apply the tackle but the one thing I ask for each game is full effort.

I have supported TV and will continue to do so but if the effort wanes that is where I draw the line. Im not privy to his role from the coaches box and I don't count stats so I don't care of he gets 3 or 30 touches. The effort is the metric I use.

Go Catters

 

[Art Vandelay_]

My point on the Yarran chase was not so much that TV didn't get him - I get that - but it looked IMO he quit in the run. Not many can even keep pace with him so I get not getting to him to apply the tackle but the one thing I ask for each game is full effort.

I have supported TV and will continue to do so but if the effort wanes that is where I draw the line. Im not privy to his role from the coaches box and I don't count stats so I don't care of he gets 3 or 30 touches. The effort is the metric I use.

Go Catters

That was right in front of us. He gave up on the chase

 

[vinum coupe]

That was right in front of us. He gave up on the chase

Yep.
Got to choose your battles sometimes. Maybe.
Who knows had far and hard TV had run before that.

Funny that someone here was suggesting Blitz was not quick because he couldn't catch Yarran the first time we played them.
Yarran has serious jets. All whilst bouncing the ball.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yep.
Got to choose your battles sometimes. Maybe.
Who knows had far and hard TV had run before that.

Funny that someone here was suggesting Blitz was not quick because he couldn't catch Yarran the first time we played them.
Yarran has serious jets. All whilst bouncing the ball.

For me its not so much catching Yarran, from where we were, he was never going to do that.

However, had he not given up, he may have been able to put enough perceived pressure on to force an error. note that Yarran strolled in to 50 and kicked the goal on the run. imo it was a soft effort, and having just watched that passage again, I'm even less impressed with TV than I was 5 mins ago.

not only that there were 3-4 geelong players in the vicinity, surely 1 can put on more pressure that what occurred?

 

[JUBJUB]

Love how the media are making Carltons injuries sound serious by saying "season ending"
Well duh,their season ends in 2 weeks

 

[manboob]

If the coach thinks that Kersten is doing his job (without taking grabs or kicking goals) or that Hawkins played well (after missing 5 shots) then he likely thinks that Varcoe is doing his job too. And CS and the match committee would know exactly what was required by the team. They may not get it 100% right, but that's okay too. It's an environment with a multitude of ever-changing variables. I suspect that what they want to control is what they can actually control. And that goes back to team discipline, structures and roles. If the ball spills from Kersten attempting a mark, then that's okay. At least he was in the right position. If Tomahawk misses 5 goals, that's okay, because at least he was able to take 5 shots.

If Tummy kicks 5 the discussion about Kersten wouldn't even take place.

 

[Pivo]

Yep, a bloke about 40 was sooking like a little girl about how "the umpires got Geelong over the line again". He was ranting at the top of his voice to all around us as we departed our seats. It was hard not to have a little chuckle to myself.

I got a running commentary throughout the game about how many frees Selwood had received this season.

That Christensen had "staged" for his free (I'm happy to admit it was soft but he hardly "staged").

And the continual "booing" from the first few minutes until the final siren when Carlton didn't get a perceived free kick was maddening.

I don't like tarring all supporters but I do find Blues supporters to be the worst.

They are bad when they lose, they are bad when they win.

Pretty sure they are even bad in the off-season.

And yes, they are worse than Hawthorn and Collingwood fans.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Love how the media are making Carltons injuries sound serious by saying "season ending"
Well duh,their season ends in 2 weeks

laughed when they did the same last night for Collingwood. They only have 2 weeks left as well

 

[JUBJUB]

laughed when they did the same last night for Collingwood. They only have 2 weeks left as well

Yep exactly the same

 

[vinum coupe]

For me its not so much catching Yarran, from where we were, he was never going to do that.

However, had he not given up, he may have been able to put enough perceived pressure on to force an error. note that Yarran strolled in to 50 and kicked the goal on the run. imo it was a soft effort, and having just watched that passage again, I'm even less impressed with TV than I was 5 mins ago.

not only that there were 3-4 geelong players in the vicinity, surely 1 can put on more pressure that what occurred?

When I saw it my thought was.

"fair enough, you were never going to get him. But what happens if he screws up a bounce?"

 

[Hello Kitty]

Let's just all hail meto (after Thursday)'twould be easier on us...

Bart's detention, fifty word essay.

"I lost my kitty, and I went out and called, Come, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty."

I'm here! Stop calling me already!

 

[Hello Kitty]

Oh well meto - the majority are joining in on Varcoe now which is good

This is the footage, which converted me

 

[Hello Kitty]

Good idea from TC. Multiple posts.
Or I might have another red and then another red...lol
Squishy can you correct the spelling to "ACTUALLY" if it's not too much trouble?
There's one re-post.

I didn't make it Sam, otherwise the spelling + grammar would be perfeck!
But I love you more for asking

 

[Hello Kitty]

Love how the media are making Carltons injuries sound serious by saying "season ending"
Well duh,their season ends in 2 weeks

Exactly! Carlton are 13th on the ladder, once they were on their way down the ladder, their season ended FFS!

 

[Teriyakicat]

For me its not so much catching Yarran, from where we were, he was never going to do that.

However, had he not given up, he may have been able to put enough perceived pressure on to force an error. note that Yarran strolled in to 50 and kicked the goal on the run. imo it was a soft effort, and having just watched that passage again, I'm even less impressed with TV than I was 5 mins ago.

not only that there were 3-4 geelong players in the vicinity, surely 1 can put on more pressure that what occurred?

One I saw was GHS who gave chase too late- why didn't he run at Yarran and force him wide? He must've been watching TV chase him down to where he was standing.

 

[Teriyakicat]

SO, after this afternoon's effort by the Hawks (or lack thereof), the Cats are now sitting 2nd on the Ladder. Who'd've thunk it?? Not too bad for a team that's rebuilding