Review AFL Round 5 - Geelong defeat Hawthorn by 19 points

[allrighty]

Who's his favourite player?
Bwuce Thyril
Hamish ?
Lethal himself
BT Big Boy

Although, I must admit I do get a little cross with our Geelong commentators being very neutral.

Our boys are humble Kitty.

And Lethal chose Selwood over Hodge as his preferred player out of the two.

 

[Olden_Polynice]

Sick of Varcoe, to be honest. Have considered doing a detailed statistical analysis to see if what my eyes are telling me is true, but don't have time at the minute.

It's clear that TV isn't getting enough of the footy. But I don't think his work rate and use of the ball should be criticized just yet, so in his defense...

1. He may run around like a headless chook and create fantastic forward pressure, as his perennial defenders will tell us, but he is a bad tackler. I've said it before, but IMO the only time he can genuinely wrap up another player is when they don't see him coming and can't fend him off. Or when it's in a pack situation and the bloke with the ball has no where to go. Otherwise he is surprisingly easy to step around for someone apparently so fast, and no where near aggressive enough with his technique when the opponent is within arms reach. Hence being easy to brush off.

TV is 18th in the AFL for total tackles and 2nd at the Cats behind only Guthrie - who has played part of the season as a tagger (11 tackles vs Adelaide). http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2014&rt=LT&st=TA

2. For every really nice bit of play he does, (nice in the sense that it is what we ultimately hope to see from fast and skilfull players), he fluffs another 2 or 3. Be it streaming forward with one or two other teammates, or trying to outrun somebody, he has an uncanny knack for turning promising passages of play into turnovers or lost opportunities.

Is going at 77.3% disposal efficiency (77.1% vs Top 8, 77.4% vs Bottom 10 teams).
7th best at the Cats behind Kelly, Rivers, Taylor & Enright (defenders), Simpson (6.2 disposals/game), and Duncan. Geelong as a team are going at 72%.

3. He doesn't want it.

Not sure you can do a detailed statistical analysis on that.

 

[winty]

Just on Varcoe, I noticed on Monday he was the 2nd best on the ground in terms of pressure acts (only Bartel was ahead of him). Hawthorn are a team who like to control the ball with little chips to free teammates further up the ground with little or no pressure on their disposal. Varcoe was instrumental in preventing such unpressured disposals. The running and harrassing on Gunston deep in defence in the 2nd term, which resulted in Gunston trying to kick the ball around the corner only to launch it into the 10th row of the Members stand highlighted this perfectly.

Once we get Motlop and Christensen back in the team and chasing and harrassing like Trav has been the last few weeks, opposition defenders will be having nightmares as they'll be paranoid they're just about to be tackled a nanosecond after gaining possession.

 

[Hello Kitty]

still hearing about the hawks not caring about home and away and always win the ones that matter...

yep, beat us in 08 GF, we were the better team but they won.

last year, and 89 for that matter, the Hawks were clearly the better team all year, if they lost those finals games to us...well...it would have been the 2012 GF type result. no way Sydney was the best team that year, in my opinion hardly top 4, but they won the big one.

but this talk about home and away not a big deal is bizarre. in 2009 we beat them twice, they missed the finals by 2 games.

in 2010 hawks missed top 4 and a double chance by 2 games...we beat them twice that year...

2011 we beat them twice, allowing us top 2 and them 3rd, the got the double chance, but if they won that QF against us would have only had wet toast to beat to get into the GF instead of the pies.

our wins over them have always had a profound impact over their season, perhaps their fans should drop the act and start caring, because they drop the 2 against us again this year, they might have to travel and play port in the QF for example, instead of playing them at the G. i think that is a big deal...

pretty much every home and away game matters almost as much as a final because it determines the finals series.

If teams don't win the H+A games, how do they make Finals?

They need an excuse to sooth them! It is like someone said in this thread previously (forgive me for forgetting who) we'd have loved to have played them in Grand Finals, it's just that other from the last two, they weren't there!

 

[Teriyakicat]

It's clear that TV isn't getting enough of the footy. But I don't think his work rate and use of the ball should be criticized just yet, so in his defense...



TV is 18th in the AFL for total tackles and 2nd at the Cats behind only Guthrie - who has played part of the season as a tagger (11 tackles vs Adelaide). http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2014&rt=LT&st=TA



Is going at 77.3% disposal efficiency (77.1% vs Top 8, 77.4% vs Bottom 10 teams).
7th best at the Cats behind Kelly, Rivers, Taylor & Enright (defenders), Simpson (6.2 disposals/game), and Duncan. Geelong as a team are going at 72%.



Not sure you can do a detailed statistical analysis on that.

Good research. Glad the stats back up what some people are seeing. The tackles aren't attempted tackles, either. The stat definition say they have to cause pressure - either stick, cause a hurried give off (which gives a teammate a chance to pick up a dropped ball), etc., or cause a turnover - or something along those lines. Just a quick arms out, attempted grab at a player who runs through unimpeded, doesn't make the tackle stats.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Just on Varcoe, I noticed on Monday he was the 2nd best on the ground in terms of pressure acts (only Bartel was ahead of him). Hawthorn are a team who like to control the ball with little chips to free teammates further up the ground with little or no pressure on their disposal. Varcoe was instrumental in preventing such unpressured disposals. The running and harrassing on Gunston deep in defence in the 2nd term, which resulted in Gunston trying to kick the ball around the corner only to launch it into the 10th row of the Members stand highlighted this perfectly.

Once we get Motlop and Christensen back in the team and chasing and harrassing like Trav has been the last few weeks, opposition defenders will be having nightmares as they'll be paranoid they're just about to be tackled a nanosecond after gaining possession.

Winty- where do you see those pressure act stats? Unfortunately the Sunday Times is the only paper we have over here that shows them and I haven't been able to see them online. Of course, being a Monday, there will be no stats for our game in next week's ST. Just interested- I started keeping a lookout for those stats last year and it was interesting, week to week, which players had the most PA stats because it wasn't the same ones each week (it was as if the specific defensive tackler role was swapped between players each week, to ensure that we didn't wear any one player out by forcing them to play that high contact role week after week)

 

[Live in hope]

Monday's game (which I finally got to see in replay today) was great, not just to continue the run (minus one) against the hawks but also to get a feel for where the newer players are at and how ready they are for big, finals type matches. I know this is a little early but on the basis that it is damned hard to significantly improve areas or resolve weaknesses in the remainder of this season -
- Horlin-Smith - a lock for finals. Like Ling, his other skills more than compensate for a lack of pace.
- Murdoch - also a lock. Even ignoring the increase in possessions this year, his pace, size, kicking ability (including for goal from a range) means he has to stay in.
- Burbury - really like this guy, likening him to Paul lynch in a Pre season post. Must say, think he may lack just a little pace for his size (good for first few metres but not express from there - really surprise how some hawks reeled him in after 5 -10 metre starts a couple of times on Monday). Given this and his inexperience I think he could be a weakness in finals, where the speed/pressure of the game ramps up several notches, and he will be under more pressure for the few scoring chances that he is currently getting each game (and missing). Really would want to start regularly taking chances/ slotting1-2 goals (and hopefully more) a game before Motlop and others start returning.
- Blicavs - again love the story about this guy and how far he has come. a little concerned about his pace, particularly in first 2-5metres Even though the fitness is legendary, I was a little surprised in this game (and some others) that he couldn't quickly get to some contests 5-10 metres away. Versatility, size and fitness probably get him in a finals starting 20 but if someone big, versatile and more ability to impact (like walker or perhaps even Jensen) could be in trouble. Sure, he played finals last year and was okay, but assuming out two rucks remain fit, the dynamic has changed from last year.
- shearingham - like the pace, hardness and ability to kick long, but doesn't have a killer element to his game and he just doesn't look like getting enough chances anyway. Probably first to go when Motlop is back.

 

[manboob]

Teriyakicat http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2014/5/geel-v-haw
Then click: FULL-TIME STATS -> Advanced Stats.
And you get something like this.

 

[winty]

Winty- where do you see those pressure act stats? Unfortunately the Sunday Times is the only paper we have over here that shows them and I haven't been able to see them online. Of course, being a Monday, there will be no stats for our game in next week's ST. Just interested- I started keeping a lookout for those stats last year and it was interesting, week to week, which players had the most PA stats because it wasn't the same ones each week (it was as if the specific defensive tackler role was swapped between players each week, to ensure that we didn't wear any one player out by forcing them to play that high contact role week after week)

They were printed in the Herald Sun and Geelong Addy. For those interested, here's the tallies for the weekend:

Bartel 30
Varcoe 24
Guthrie 19
Selwood 18
Hunt 18
Stokes 17
Murdoch 15
Simpson 14
Enright 13
Johnson 12
Burbury 12
Hawkins 11
Rivers 11
Blicavs 11
Kelly 8
Horlin-Smith 8
Duncan 7
McIntosh 5
Mackie 5
Taylor 4
Lonergan 2
Sheringham 2

 

[Willo_]

Although Shoenmakers has not had much success against the Tomahawk recently.

He hasn't had much success against anyone

Ever

 

[Hello Kitty]

Ha that was in front of us in the members and I yelled something along the lines of Hodge ball watching with a drumstick in his hand while Stevie ran away with it. Got a few head turns from the surrounding Dawks bandwagon. If Tomahawk is a fat plodder, at least he is fat plodder that can win big games.

Is that why the Poos+Wees call Tomahawk, Porkins? But he's all muscle?

 

[manboob]

Is that why the Poos+Wees call Tomahawk, Porkins? But he's all muscle?

He used to be a bit of a Tummy Porkins. Photos like this didn't help.

 

[Kittenish]

Enter Kittenish

You rang? Sorry I was not at my post today. Had a doc's appt, not to mention my cold or anything.

I liked most of what I saw from our "kittens" last match. Except Blivcavs and Varcoe. I feel like I'm always yelling at one of those two for making a mistake and turning over the ball. Sometimes I stay awake at night and wonder why they're in the team when they keep making basic mistakes over and over again. I think it's high time they had some serious VFL time, in order to learn that if they keep making basic mistakes over and over again in AFL, that's where they're headed. Anyone else have a problem with yelling at them via the TV (or I suppose at the matches, if you're lucky to be able to attend most matches)?

Maybe move up some of the good guys from the VFL to the AFL and see what they do. After all, they're potentially our future team, why not start investing in them early? (well, maybe not in a key clash like against the Hawks or Port, but a young team against someone like the Giants could be very beneficial).

 

[DanA]

The big bloke did the right thing, but I would've laughed if he'd thought, "no, get your own ball" and kicked it himself, and that would've meant 9 disposals for the mighty Varcs.

Just watched that first goal again. It was a quick passage of play where Varcoe started on the Hawks 50. The fact he gets forward to provide an option forMcIntosh to handball too when McIntosh is facing away from goal with Hodge on his tail should be commended IMO rather than belittled.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Contact between Hawthorn’s Luke Hodge and Geelong’s Steve Johnson from the second quarter of Monday’s match was assessed. The ball has gone out of bounds when Hodge and Johnson come together and Hodge makes contact with Johnson to the stomach. After viewing all the available footage and receiving a medical report from the Geelong Football Club, it was the view of the panel that the force used by Hodge was below that required to constitute a reportable offence. No further action was taken.
Contact between Geelong’s Tom Hawkins and Hawthorn’s Will Langford from the third quarter of Monday’s match was assessed. Geelong’s George Horlin-Smith is running with the ball and player Langford turns to chase him. Hawkins attempts to shepherd for his team-mate and makes body contact with Langford. Hawkins has an open hand when the contact is made and it was not a striking action. No further action was taken.

What about Roughead's elbow to Selwood's jaw? I have a video of it but can't upload it from MacBookPro

 

[manboob]

+1 Kittenish when I think of Varcoe and Ballroom I have this song playing in my head.

They'd wanna get a wriggle on with Caddy, Bundy and Motlop on the sides.

 

[barmy44]

He used to be a bit of a Tummy Porkins. Photos like this didn't help.

i guess its relative... maybe a bit softer than he should have been for a full time professional athlete.

but if that pic was the extent of the western worlds weight problem, there wouldnt be one.

 

[manboob]

i guess its relative... maybe a bit softer than he should have been for a full time professional athlete.

but if that pic was the extent of the western worlds weight problem, there wouldnt be one.

Yeah that was ages ago. I'm just giving some context to KittyAilurophile.

Now he's a hunk of man muscle

 

[Scottland2007]

Apparently, Selwood, in response to an inane media question nominated Roughead as the hawk he would most like at Geelong.

Was Selwood trolling Roughie? Reverse psychology? I don't recall the commentators mentioning him during the entire match.

got a mention when he tried to put his shoulder through Selwoods jaw.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Teriyakicat http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2014/5/geel-v-haw
Then click: FULL-TIME STATS -> Advanced Stats.
And you get something like this.

thanks manboob- I can see the DE% which I like to check but can't see pressure acts. There's a discussion on BF between me and Bobby, who was interested in the Pressure Act Stats as well and I found the definitions of both 1%ers and Pressure Acts- they aren't the same thing. 1%ers are spoils, etc. while Pressure Acts are actions that force hurried disposal and turnovers. Mostly the spoils happen in our back half, as obviously the forwards prefer to try and mark, not spoil, but PAs happen all over the ground.

If I get time later, I'll gather up my PA info that I have and try and make sense of the rounds available. I think there's only 2 rounds at this stage purely because, as I said, I've only found them in the Sunday paper.Thanks for your help anyways.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Yeah that was ages ago. I'm just giving some context to KittyAilurophile.

Now he's a hunk of man muscle

come on, now- don't be embarrassed. He'd be right up there on the "Man Love" charts of many many men!!

(in a non-sexual kind of way, of course!)

 

[manboob]

I loved him since the day he first arrived. He wouldn't have weighed more than 100kgs dripping wet. Now look at him!

 

[Teriyakicat]

They were printed in the Herald Sun and Geelong Addy. For those interested, here's the tallies for the weekend:

Bartel 30
Varcoe 24
Guthrie 19
Selwood 18
Hunt 18
Stokes 17
Murdoch 15
Simpson 14
Enright 13
Johnson 12
Burbury 12
Hawkins 11
Rivers 11
Blicavs 11
Kelly 8
Horlin-Smith 8
Duncan 7
McIntosh 5
Mackie 5
Taylor 4
Lonergan 2
Sheringham 2

Thanks so much, Winty. If you don't mind, could you put these up for me if you see them? I have never been able to find them online in either of those papers. I'd be happy to collect them and post a comparative table of the PA stats every week- which would show that some players have big numbers one week, then less in the next week or two, as if it rotates. Forwards and backmen appear to have the least but there also appears to be players whose job for the week is purely to harass an opposition player or players- eg. I see Varcoe taking on 3 opponents who play "keep things off" and he just won't let them get the clear pass out of their little 'group'. Eventually one of them will break and, even though Varcoe is buggered and can't get to the fall of the ball, it's given a teammate (sitting on the outside) a chance to grab it.

Bartel's 30 PAs is probably the highest that I've seen from our team this year- and from my limited data from last season.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Just watched that first goal again. It was a quick passage of play where Varcoe started on the Hawks 50. The fact he gets forward to provide an option forMcIntosh to handball too when McIntosh is facing away from goal with Hodge on his tail should be commended IMO rather than belittled.

it also explains why he misses some of those quick shots on goal- particularly if he's run end to end to present as an option close to goal. The sad thing is that these misses tend to stick in people's minds, though there is plenty of evidence of him nailing the shots after running end to end.

 

[allrighty]

it also explains why he misses some of those quick shots on goal- particularly if he's run end to end to present as an option close to goal. The sad thing is that these misses tend to stick in people's minds, though there is plenty of evidence of him nailing the shots after running end to end.

2011 GF for example