All the Americans are on Drugs

[blackcat]

What exactly is genetic gear ? Do you just get this stuff from online conspiracy sites run by failed athletes who make up stuff to justifying fact that they where no good ?

I have no idea, but he is in the Launceston set. See the riders from there, numerous Protour wins in European pro road cycling. Guy I spoke to, was a podium finisher in a 6 day. Failed? Depends on your criteria. He was a "jobbing" cyclist. Managed to be a pro in Europe.

Vinnicombe... well, he was someone with a profile equivalent to Sally Pearson. And a cv if excellence.

 

[blackcat]

AND

not ALL the Americans are on drugs.

Not ALL the Australians are on drugs.

hmm, probably not all the Kazakhs, and Chinese are on drugs. Some sports, undoubtedly all are.

North Koreans... lol.

See the Red Queen Effect where everyone jumps on the treadmill but they are actually default standing still. It is an arms race. Did I post the Julian Savulescu link earlier in the thread. See that. Oxford Don, read it, and then throw the conspiracy epithet.

 

[XFactor1979]

I tell you who isnt on performance enhancing drugs, the marathon runners

Theres no use pumping roids to run a hundred in 10 seconds for those guys

 

[blackcat]

I tell you who isnt on performance enhancing drugs, the marathon runners

Theres no use pumping roids to run a hundred in 10 seconds for those guys

thanks to epicycle at cyclingnews forums

The rise of Kenyans in the marathon coincided with their association with an Italian doctor named Gabriele Rosa. Not surprisingly, Rosa had been a cycling doctor before he shifted his focus to runners. Also not surprising that Rosa has been implicated in doping issues (and more recently than this NY Times article):

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/02/sp...ted=all&src=pm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fea...long_distance/

There's a lot more stuff about Rosa out there for anybody interested in searching.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I tell you who isnt on performance enhancing drugs, the marathon runners

Theres no use pumping roids to run a hundred in 10 seconds for those guys

But EPO and CERA helps a s**t load in endurance sports.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I tell you who isnt on performance enhancing drugs, the marathon runners

Theres no use pumping roids to run a hundred in 10 seconds for those guys

EPO intoroduction and how long distance running times improved at the same time.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/performance-analysis-weapon-against.html

Men's distance running

Next, look at the best time and average of the best 20 times for the men's 5,000m and 10,000m events:

​

​

I don't think I have to point out the striking change in performance, particularly in the 5,000m event, after the commercial introduction of EPO in about 1990. I'm particularly interested in how the average of the top 20 times each year changes, because the red line, which represents the best performance, and thus only one athlete, might be misleading. But the blue line, that average, very definitely heads downwards, after a period where it had begun to level off. For the top 20 athletes to all improve in a season is suggestive of a systemic change, possibly in training, possibly nutrition, possibly equipment (imagine what swimming's graphs will look like one day!), possibly increased exposure of athletes. Or, quite possibly, doping, and the co-incidental timing of EPO becoming commercially available and this drop-off is quite difficult to ignore.

NOT proof of doping, but a flag for intelligent testing

Is this an indication of EPO use among elite distance runners? We don't know. It could be. But there are many other reasons that may explain why the records fell suddenly. This is the challenge with performance analysis. Please read this before sending in the hate mail and criticizing my cynicism, because I must emphasize that this kind of analysis does NOT prove doping! As Schumacher states in the paper, there are many other factors that could explain why performance suddenly improves, so one must be careful not to infer doping without acknowledging a wide range of potential contributing factors.
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/performance-analysis-weapon-against.html

 

[Alfonz]

That chart looks like it ends in 2000. Would be interesting to see the last 10+ years of data. Or the same analysis for the marathon.

Were the likes of Gebrselassie, Komen and Bekele (from ~1995-2005) just freaks? If you look at say the best 5000m times of all-time, there are noticeable gaps ... 1995-1997 there are a bunch of best times ... then a rush in 2004-2006 ... then fast forward to 2012 where athletes again cracked the all time upper echelon. Just phases of freak athletes? A freak race (as per 2012 ... 6 of top 22 all time in one race)? Or coming and goings of new drug technology?

Anyway, I don't think the 10km blue line shows much of an anomaly at all from 1975 to 2000. The 5km moreso, but you could also argue that 1983-1992 was just an average decade. The more the red and blue lines diverge, the more it suggest to me that there is just 1 or 2 freak athletes like Gebrselassie, and that in general there is not systematic doping. The women's discus on the other hand ... clear evidence of doping.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised if the long distance runners are on the good stuff, I can't believe the times they achieve. Especially over a marathon.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Late 1999/ early 2000 is when Dr Robin Parisotto and his team from the AIS invented the EPO ON and OFF test using both blood and urine. At the 2000 games the IOC by mid year only approved ON test to be used ie could tell athletes were on EPO as their haematocrit levels were elevated, ie % of red blood cells, and the IOC only accepted urine tests, but blood samples were taken for further analysis, which 7 of the 300 blood samples were positive, so given there were 3,000 endurance athletes, would the games have survived 70 positive tests???

Within 4 years most sports, but mainly the endurance sports had taken up the ON and OFF tests and blood samples were used in Athens in 2004.

 

[blackcat]

thing to remember also, Man, should have nearly exhausted all the potential in sports science/training/dietetics/nutrition/

At this level of "potential" or potentials optimisation, there is only a very marginal improvement in the exogenous factors for an athlete.

Cant improve at all in all of these facets they have spent half a century on. Though they can on pharmaceuticals. And on genetically talented athletes when opening up the gates to the entire world, and not just a portion of all the human race.

Also, I think they have also got near potential in oxygen vectore drugs or techniques for aerobic sports, and steroids for power events. I think this is proven in the track records from the 1980s and the GED women.

 

[XFactor1979]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...our-de-France-titles-and-banned-for-life.html

^ So much fail!

I think if the Americans want to be honest, they should either take themselves out of the games, and have a free for all for athletes in their country. Most the baseballers, footballers (gridiron) and basketballers are already doing it. Its a good thing those arent Olympic sports.<- Oh s**t! basketball, lets just sweep that under the carpet...

EDIT - The Americans are ahead of the Anti-Doping agencies, because their pharmaceuticals are well ahead of the game. To quote Chris Rock: The Americans can cure AIDS FFS! They Americans sent a man to the moon FFS, but they arent going to, because there's no money in the cure, AIDS is still around to make up for the money they could have made in Polio. They are never ever ever ever ever going to cure AIDS

^ ... America- fk yeh!

 

[estibador]

You'd feel pretty hard done by as a cyclist to be stripped of your titles for doping.

That'd be like kicking a Rastafarian out of the movement for smoking weed.

 

[blackcat]

most AFL players too. I'd hazard to guess upwards of 90%, all have a plausible deniability program. And when Buddy and Stokes go for recreation drugs, it allows a figleaf of probity

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...our-de-France-titles-and-banned-for-life.html

^ So much fail!

I think if the Americans want to be honest, they should either take themselves out of the games, and have a free for all for athletes in their country. Most the baseballers, footballers (gridiron) and basketballers are already doing it. Its a good thing those arent Olympic sports.<- Oh s**t! basketball, lets just sweep that under the carpet...

EDIT - The Americans are ahead of the Anti-Doping agencies, because their pharmaceuticals are well ahead of the game. To quote Chris Rock: The Americans can cure AIDS FFS! They Americans sent a man to the moon FFS, but they arent going to, because there's no money in the cure, AIDS is still around to make up for the money they could have made in Polio. They are never ever ever ever ever going to cure AIDS

^ ... America- fk yeh!

at

 

[XFactor1979]

I honestly dont see how this American athlete :->

Is any different from this drug enhanced athlete->

 

[blackcat]

we have pics of Johan Blake and Bolt?

 

[XFactor1979]

With regards to Lance Armstrong

If he only won the tour de france only once, people probably would have seen his story as 'feel good'

But he got greedy, the idea of setting records is scrutinised

 

[Hodge is God]

*Chinese.

That girl who has the swimming record over the men. Very fishy.

 

[blackcat]

*Chinese.

That girl who has the swimming record over the men. Very fishy.

Ian Thorpe exposed himself when he compared his own performances to her. They are all on it. But Thorpes' defence and justification over her swim, was instructive to his personal stance on PEDS.

And this is not an anti-Sino post. It would not matter if she was a hungarian, french, or sKorean medley swimmer.

 

[b0ydman]

hey Bro
My Tyler Hamilton book arrives this week
Can't wait
See you around


Re the OP- Yep, many of them sure are, as are many of the Aussies too
University scholarships