Andrew Raines and Clinton Jones

Jun 23, 2008
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Would rather James Gwilt

I know St Kilda are turning towards youth, but he's still an adequate performer. Just turned 28 a couple of weeks ago. Doesn't deserve to be de-listed based on his output IMO. Wouldn't mind him for a year or two. Problem is, he's more of a genuine back pocket/half back than a midfielder tagger.
 

mike123

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I know St Kilda are turning towards youth, but he's still an adequate performer. Just turned 28 a couple of weeks ago. Doesn't deserve to be de-listed based on his output IMO. Wouldn't mind him for a year or two. Problem is, he's more of a genuine back pocket/half back than a midfielder tagger.

Yeah but Goldsack looks like he might go through free agency and Maxwell has retired and Scharenberg did his knee. Gwilt is a player capable of playing the third role and also is a long kick. The tagger role never really bothered me and IMO I thought Maccaffer's output was overrated.
 
Jun 23, 2008
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Yeah but Goldsack looks like he might go through free agency and Maxwell has retired and Scharenberg did his knee. Gwilt is a player capable of playing the third role and also is a long kick. The tagger role never really bothered me and IMO I thought Maccaffer's output was overrated.

Yeah thinking about it further, I think he could be really useful for us. Solid body, experienced in good teams and big games, can take a mark, generally pretty safe with the ball. Would seem like the type of player any young side could do with. Kind of surprised the Saints (given their list situation) are willing to let him go so easily.

Marley or Tooves can tag anyway

Would like to see Marley get used through the middle in a tagging role more next year. I think he's got the right mindset and aggression for it, and has enough tricks that he can get the footy himself and be damaging going the other way (unlike Macaffer). Getting someone like Gwilt would allow us to release someone like Marley upfield.
 
Last edited:
May 27, 2012
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Give the role to Williams next year. I am intrigued by Gwilt. St Kilda's KPD problems forced him to bulk up and play key defense after he injured his knee, when he is a running half back flanker with a thumping kick. Imagine if Lumumba or Goldsack was forced to play as a key defender, week in, week out. That's basically what the Saints did to him.

Maybe his knee is stuffed.

Then again, it could be another Jordan Russell scenario. Who knows.
 
Jun 23, 2008
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Give the role to Williams next year. I am intrigued by Gwilt. St Kilda's KPD problems forced him to bulk up and play key defense after he injured his knee, when he is a running half back flanker with a thumping kick. Imagine if Lumumba or Goldsack was forced to play as a key defender, week in, week out. That's basically what the Saints did to him.

Maybe his knee is stuffed.

Then again, it could be another Jordan Russell scenario. Who knows.

He's listed at 188cm and 96kg. If we can trim him down to 89-90kg, it would probably relieve stress on his knees and get him a bit of quickness and agility back. We don't need him to play as a key defender, so he doesn't need the bulk. Looks to have a similar body type to Harry O, and he's lean but built these days (was getting a bit over-inflated on the weights in 2011-12).

I think Gwilt has more poise and composure than Russell ever did too TBH.
 

partypie

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Give the role to Williams next year.

He's not big enough to tag the bigger, stronger on ballers, he's not quick or focused enough to consistently stick with the fast ones at the stoppages and doesn't have the tank to tag gut runners (you need two out of those three at least to be a decent tagger and he doesn't really tick any of those boxes at the moment).

I think Marley has more value to us taking an opposition small forward one-on-one down back (which he's not bad at) and sweeping the ball out of our back half with his run and carry and using that left foot of his - his decision making obviously needs a bit of work when he has the ball. but he certainly wasn't the worst player in black and white out there most weeks in that respect and he has only pulled on the jumper 40-odd times to this point in his career (having just turned 21 a couple of months ago).
 
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Sep 11, 2006
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So the off season has started and there is going to be a thread on every single player available and if we should take them. Sorry to add to this but this question has been eating away at me.

With Macaffer out for the foreseeable future and these 2 taggers available to be taken as delisted free agents, do we pick one up to fill the hole? Andrew Raines has always been a handy player and Clinton Jones was the best tagger in the league in '11 and '12 before Crowley hit his straps?


You can't be *in serious??
 

Axl the great

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I got an idea, how about using one of Williams, Toovey, or one of the younger guys like Ramsay, get Caff to work the whole off season with them as far as information and positioning goes, and use the extra pick on a kid instead.

If we had to get one from another club as a hypothetical i would take Caicha from Carlton instead of Jones.
 

mike123

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Give the role to Williams next year. I am intrigued by Gwilt. St Kilda's KPD problems forced him to bulk up and play key defense after he injured his knee, when he is a running half back flanker with a thumping kick. Imagine if Lumumba or Goldsack was forced to play as a key defender, week in, week out. That's basically what the Saints did to him.

Maybe his knee is stuffed.

Then again, it could be another Jordan Russell scenario. Who knows.


Jordan Russell found himself in no mans land. He was too slow to to man up on small opponents, too small to man up on tall forwards, didn't get enough possessions to be a rebounder, was't a good enough interceptor to be a third tall defender. His only real strength was his kicking. Gwilt however has been forced to play key position back and has done so admirably. At Collingwood if he was a key back he would do allot better as there is more pressure on the ball carrier and he wouldn't have to defend allot of underfenderbles. Gwilt also wouldn't have to play key back as well, he would only have to play third tall and back up key back if need be. Gwilt has more strings to his bow than Russell.
 

Presty For Prez

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I think it is a great idea to recruit guys from bottom four clubs who struggle to get a game. Surely this is the fast track to ensuring a meteoric rise. We should keep our ear to the ground for any Melbourne discards as well!

Yeah because Leigh Montangna, Nick Reiwoldt, Nathan Jones, Jeremy Cameron, and Tom Rockliff would find it hard to get a game over Jesse White and Jarryd Blair... Ridiculous comment
 

jabbers

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Yeah because Leigh Montangna, Nick Reiwoldt, Nathan Jones, Jeremy Cameron, and Tom Rockliff would find it hard to get a game over Jesse White and Jarryd Blair... Ridiculous comment
WTF I don't remember any of those excellent players struggling to get a game with their respective clubs this year! Both the players you mentioned have struggled to cement a regular place in their team this year which was the point I was making. If you are too stupid to comprehend simple concepts like this then perhaps posting on a forum isn't for you!
 

Flyin Pies

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I think it is a great idea to recruit guys from bottom four clubs who struggle to get a game. Surely this is the fast track to ensuring a meteoric rise. We should keep our ear to the ground for any Melbourne discards as well!
I heard Jordan Gysberts may be available......
 
If Raines, Jones, Polkinghorne, Lisle or Gwilt end up at our club next year, I will personally visit the Westpac centre & piss in Bucks's fuel tank.
For goodness sake, have we not learned anything from recruiting other teams discards yet? We need to improve the skills on the list not peg it back another few notches. I know it's silly season but is there any chance we can look for someone who wouldn't play VFL all year?
 
I think it is a great idea to recruit guys from bottom four clubs who struggle to get a game. Surely this is the fast track to ensuring a meteoric rise. We should keep our ear to the ground for any Melbourne discards as well!

What could go wrong huh? ;):p
 

Hva sher a

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Jordan Russell found himself in no mans land. He was too slow to to man up on small opponents, too small to man up on tall forwards, didn't get enough possessions to be a rebounder, was't a good enough interceptor to be a third tall defender. His only real strength was his kicking. Gwilt however has been forced to play key position back and has done so admirably. At Collingwood if he was a key back he would do allot better as there is more pressure on the ball carrier and he wouldn't have to defend allot of underfenderbles. Gwilt also wouldn't have to play key back as well, he would only have to play third tall and back up key back if need be. Gwilt has more strings to his bow than Russell.

^^ good post
I'm happy to admit I was a fan of the Russell pick up because (a) he didn't cost us much and (b) his disposal skills were something we lacked in the backline. Unfortunately that didn't work out because he got spooked with his kicking after a big error in the Anzac match (as I recall).

Anyway, Gwilt has a few more strings than Russell and I foresee him playing the Josh Gibson role IF coached properly (a big if). He is not as good as Gibson but he will suffice until Langdon grows into the role (Langdon is not there yet).

Happy to consider Gwilt (and a definite no to Clinton and Raines)
 
Oct 6, 2004
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Gwilt is hopeless. Really average player with poor decision making ability and gets smashed one on one. Has never been a good third man up either.

I'd consider rainea for a rookie pick. We will likely delist a few rookies and upgrade frost so there's a spot there.

Just for one year as insurance with Macaffer down. He has always been a decent tagger.

Id put him ahead of jones simply because his skills are slightly better.
 
Dec 1, 2013
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How bad is Raines with the ball?

I always thought he was a fine user of the ball, especially compared to Clinton Jones.
Sorry to intrude.
He's okay, not a great kick but not terrible. He wouldn't be used for his kicking anyway.
He is actually a great tagger, was especially good on Abblett. There was an article posted a year ago (niw) that had Raines as the 2nd best tagger behind Crowley, imo, would be an upgrade on Macaffer.
The only reason we are getting rid of him is that Leppa doesn't want taggers in our list.
 
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