Another ALP clunker

[Daytripper]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...p-box-from-labor/story-fn59niix-1226271235752

EVERY set-top box delivered under Labor's digital TV rollout could be costing the taxpayer an average of $698 -- almost double the government's original estimate, more than 30 times the cost of a box bought at a department store and far more expensive than a new 106cm flatscreen TV.

The scheme, which was initially funded with $69.5 million in the 2009-10 federal budget before receiving a further $309m last year, is aimed at pensioners and the disabled, who the government says are unable to buy and install their own set-top boxes to receive digital TV signals. Eligible households must be receiving one of five welfare payments at the full rate to qualify for a free box.

Can these clowns get anything right?

I must say I'm growing more and more skeptical about the governments claims that all is well with our economy. They have shown time and time and time again that they are financially incompetent.

I would not be the least bit surprised to find that after the next election the Coalition discovers that all is not as it seems with our Budget.

 

[Financialpanther]

As long as they can watch repeats of Matlock - they will be happy.

 

[Subprime]

Why even bother with a set top boxes when they've been superceded by built-in units?

For $700 you could by a 40inch LCD easily, buy in bulk and the discounts accrue.

This is the nuttiest scheme this government has dreamt up and that is saying something.

 

[evo]

For $700 you could by a 40inch LCD easily, buy in bulk and the discounts accrue.

.

I bought a perfectly good 42incher for $399 from JB a few weeks ago. It has a tuner in it.

 

[Subprime]

I bought a perfectly good 42incher for $399 from JB a few weeks ago. It has a tuner in it.

Amazing, I know JB's margin's are getting squeezed but I doubt they sold it to you at a loss.

Can they be so out of touch they don't know this.

 

[noddy]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...p-box-from-labor/story-fn59niix-1226271235752



Can these clowns get anything right?

I must say I'm growing more and more skeptical about the governments claims that all is well with our economy. They have shown time and time and time again that they are financially incompetent.

I would not be the least bit surprised to find that after the next election the Coalition discovers that all is not as it seems with our Budget.

So the cost of a set top box is less than $23 i take it, bloody HN charging more than double that

What about the cost of a digital aerial & the cost of installing that aerial?

I always laugh when i see the word "could" in the Murdoch press

 

[evo]

Amazing, I know JB's margin's are getting squeezed but I doubt they sold it to you at a loss.

Can they be so out of touch they don't know this.

Dick Smith are selling a differnt brand at the same price right now, so it's not as if it is some outlier.

You can't tell me the Australian Government couldn't have bought a 1/2 dozen container loads from China at $300 a pop. A pimply faced clerk could organise it.But somehow these clowns have manged to spend $700 just on a STB, which BTW sells for $50 at JB and Dick Smith.

Governments are unbelievable the way they waste tax payers money. And it happens day in, day out in all sorts of places the public will never even hear about.

 

[noddy]

Dick Smith are selling a differnt brand at the same price right now, so it's not as if it is some outlier.

You can't tell me the Australian Government couldn't have bought a 1/2 dozen container loads from China at $300 a pop. A pimply faced clerk could organise it.But somehow these clowns have manged to spend $700 just on a STB, which BTW sells for $50 at JB and Dick Smith.

Governments are unbelievable the way they waste tax payers money. And it happens day in, day out in all sorts of places the public will never even hear about.

I take it you are telling bullshit just for the sake of telling bullshit.

 

[Pie eyed]

While the cost (or in reality, speculated cost) of providing digital TV up grades to Pensioners and the Handicapped is widely "boxed up" as a current, stand alone issue, laid squarely at the feet of the Labor Government it is in fact an artifact of the Howard liberal Governments decision to move to Digital Television.
No-one would accept that Pensioners or the Handicapped should be disadvantaged by any decision which stood to cut them off from access to free to air television.

Maybe the decision to switch off the Analogue system should have been delayed for 30+ years to avoid the need for the upgrade, but at what cost?

That Government, Liberal or Labor, pays well over the odds in the purchase and installation of any item should not come as a shock to anybody with half a brain.

 

[King Elvis]

For $700 you could by a 40inch LCD easily, buy in bulk and the discounts accrue.

Friend of mine bought a 32" LCD from JB for $199 yesterday.

I must say I'm growing more and more skeptical about the governments claims that all is well with our economy. They have shown time and time and time again that they are financially incompetent.

The consequences wont be felt for a few years, but anybody who thinks this Government is competent is deluded.

Maybe the decision to switch off the Analogue system should have been delayed for 30+ years to avoid the need for the upgrade, but at what cost?

You're trolling, right?

Maybe we should use horse and carts as well, cars are too expensive.

 

[Subprime]

While the cost (or in reality, speculated cost) of providing digital TV up grades to Pensioners and the Handicapped is widely "boxed up" as a current, stand alone issue, laid squarely at the feet of the Labor Government it is in fact an artifact of the Howard liberal Governments decision to move to Digital Television.
No-one would accept that Pensioners or the Handicapped should be disadvantaged by any decision which stood to cut them off from access to free to air television.

Maybe the decision to switch off the Analogue system should have been delayed for 30+ years to avoid the need for the upgrade, but at what cost?

That Government, Liberal or Labor, pays well over the odds in the purchase and installation of any item should not come as a shock to anybody with half a brain.

So go for the shyte-for-brain solution of the set-top box that costs $700 to install.

What about the pensioners who already bought their new digital TV, what do they get?

 

[PottSie2]

So go for the shyte-for-brain solution of the set-top box that costs $700 to install.

What about the pensioners who already bought their new digital TV, what do they get?

It's a common theme amongst this Govt. that anybody who has the gumption to try and take of themselves and prioritise get NOTHING.

 

[Malibu#27]

So the cost of a set top box is less than $23 i take it, bloody HN charging more than double that

What about the cost of a digital aerial & the cost of installing that aerial?

I always laugh when i see the word "could" in the Murdoch press

You don't need a digital aerial in most cases - especially metropolitan where the bulk of the population is. I used bunny ears for years with my first digital set top box. (In many cases tech-unsavy people are being conned into buying them)

Fact is, a new "brand name" TV of similar or larger size than almost any analogue TV on the market will come in at less than $500 - probably $400. Set top boxes are almost obsolete these days - and I suspect are largely generic brands giving a lower quality experience. Why give out a set top box at $300 when a TV at $400 is better quality.
I purchased a full HD samsung 32" for under $400 recently.

Giving out set top boxes is a bad idea from the start, especially as it allows environmentally unfriendly old analog TV's to be in use.

My guess - knowing how some arms of government works is that they signed a contract with a supplier years ago to supply set top boxes at a set price, and they cannot get out of that contract - even though the price per STB is on a par with a TV, and that the STB's that they signed up to are older generation.
(I remember working on a government project years ago, which had a 5+ year lead time between development start and expected completion, however the hardware was purchased up front (that's the way the commonwealth purchase assets)... of course 5 years on when the project was ready to deliver the first thing they did was piss off all the outdated (and largely unused hardware) and recommissioned us to rework the product onto newer modern hardware.

I always laugh when I see people defending government stupidity such as this.

Wouldn't it have been easier to issue "vouchers" to entitled people which gave then $500 credit to be used "anywhere" on STB or TV. Stores would then receive the cash from governent upon purchase.

 

[Pie eyed]

So go for the shyte-for-brain solution of the set-top box that costs $700 to install.

What about the pensioners who already bought their new digital TV, what do they get?

If they have already got digital TV they get nothing and it costs the Government nothing.
This goes to the use of the term "could cost" in the article as they have no idea, Government or Media, how many have made their own provisions already.
It's simply a "Pensioners + Handicapped x Cost per Installation = Total Cost" speculation. The numbers are rubbery to say the least.

If it is actually going to cost $700.00, as speculated in the linked article, for a $40.00 tuner ask yourself how much it is going to cost for a $400.00 TV?

The Libs would be doing exactly the same thing, at the same cost, if they were in power and because of the polices they implemented whilst in power.

How much has it cost you just to "go digital" TV?
Not what would it cost today.
How much has it cost you up to date?

Aerial
Booster
Cable
Outlets
TV
Tuner
Installation of all.

(ps I'm not saying this is what the Pensioner is getting nor what the Government is supplying.)

The cost to the individual of the decision to go digital has been significant amount, well up there in the thousands, in many cases the tens thousands, to each person who has made the switch.

Then ask how much going to digital telephony has cost you.

The whole thing has been a vastly expensive exercise.

Has it been worth it?

 

[Daytripper]

While the cost (or in reality, speculated cost) of providing digital TV up grades to Pensioners and the Handicapped is widely "boxed up" as a current, stand alone issue, laid squarely at the feet of the Labor Government it is in fact an artifact of the Howard liberal Governments decision to move to Digital Television.
No-one would accept that Pensioners or the Handicapped should be disadvantaged by any decision which stood to cut them off from access to free to air television.

So we shouldn't have moved to digital TV ????

 

[Malibu#27]

I take it you are telling bullshit just for the sake of telling bullshit.

$700 is for the STB plus admin costs by the sounds.

Either the admin costs are way over the top or the STB's are costing a lot. It makes no sense that admin costs would be > product costs.... otherwise they would have been better served handing out cash (stimulus bonus style) to anyone that qualified.

 

[King Elvis]

Aerial
Booster
Cable
Outlets
TV
Tuner
Installation of all.

You're not serious, surely?

The vast majority of people wont need a new aerial for Digital TV, same with a booster. Those that do - I had Jim's Antennas out the other week, under $200 to replace and relocate my antenna.

It uses the same aerial cable as analogue.

Same outlets.

If you buy a TV, you don't need a Tuner, if you buy a Tuner, you don't need a TV.

Installation of it all?

You plug it in.

The cost to the individual of the decision to go digital has been significant amount, well up there in the thousands, in many cases the tens thousands, to each person who has made the switch.

What the ****?

 

[Malibu#27]

How much has it cost you just to "go digital" TV?
Not what would it cost today.
How much has it cost you up to date?

Aerial umm - zero
Booster zero
Will I need a new antenna to get digital TV

But that doesn't mean you also need to change your antenna, says Dr Stuart Hay, principal research scientist in electromagnetics with the CSIRO's Information and Communication Technology Centre.

"Antennas made for analog TV signals work just as well for both digital and high definition signals. It's incorrect to claim that you need a special antenna," says Hay.

Will I need a new antenna to get digital TV


Cable zero - cables installed for analog
Outlets zero - outlets installed for analog
TV variable - TV's now more affordable than they have ever been
Tuner zero TV has tuner
Installation of all. zero
Step 1) place TV where old one was
Step 2) plug in power
Step 3) plug in aerial that was plugged into old TV
Step 4) tune tv
Step 4) watch Tv

The cost is not the cost to install a TV from scratch, its the cost to switch from analog to digital, as such existing infrastructure (aerial/cables etc) will all be there ....

In most cases existing infrastructure is all that is required so the only cost (other than "government overheads") is the TV - or in the dumb scheme - the (most likely already outdated) set top box....

and of course in a couple years time when the old analog TV's go bang and need replacing, the set top boxes become obsolete, and the users will buy themselves a cheap TV with better picture, less carbon footprint etc

 

[Pie eyed]

So we shouldn't have moved to digital TV ????

I'm not saying that at all.

I'm pointing out that;
1) The decision has cost a gigantic amount of money to everyone who has made the switch. A cost which is largely ignored by media and Government, as the costs have been largely borne by the individual out of their own nett income.
2) We would not see Pensioners and the Handicapped excluded from what was established as, and is still seen as, a societal right to free to air television access as acceptable.
3) Any flavor of Government would still have to meet the commitments made to Pensioners and the Handicapped when the Digital System was written into legislation.
4) Anything the Government buys always costs them inordinately more than a retail purchaser.
5) The above applies to any flavor of Government.

 

[King Elvis]

1) The decision has cost a gigantic amount of money to everyone who has made the switch. A cost which is largely ignored by media and Government, as the costs have been largely borne by the individual out of their own nett income.

Except that's completely incorrect.

 

[Daytripper]

4) Anything the Government buys always costs them inordinately more than a retail purchaser.

Why is this a given?

They are in most cases buying heavily in bulk, they have the infrastructure and resources at their disposal to immediately handle procurement, delivery, install etc and there are no funding issues.

 

[Malibu#27]

I'm not saying that at all.

I'm pointing out that;
1) The decision has cost a gigantic amount of money to everyone who has made the switch. A cost which is largely ignored by media and Government, as the costs have been largely borne by the individual out of their own nett income.
2) We would not see Pensioners and the Handicapped excluded from what was established as, and is still seen as, a societal right to free to air television access as acceptable.
3) Any flavor of Government would still have to meet the commitments made to Pensioners and the Handicapped when the Digital System was written into legislation.
4) Anything the Government buys always costs them inordinately more than a retail purchaser.
5) The above applies to any flavor of Government.

Surely you're not serious ? Most of that is balderdash.
Can you provide any proof for any of this or are you plucking it from thin air.

 

[noddy]

You don't need a digital aerial in most cases - especially metropolitan where the bulk of the population is. I used bunny ears for years with my first digital set top box. (In many cases tech-unsavy people are being conned into buying them)

Fact is, a new "brand name" TV of similar or larger size than almost any analogue TV on the market will come in at less than $500 - probably $400. Set top boxes are almost obsolete these days - and I suspect are largely generic brands giving a lower quality experience. Why give out a set top box at $300 when a TV at $400 is better quality.
I purchased a full HD samsung 32" for under $400 recently.

Giving out set top boxes is a bad idea from the start, especially as it allows environmentally unfriendly old analog TV's to be in use.

My guess - knowing how some arms of government works is that they signed a contract with a supplier years ago to supply set top boxes at a set price, and they cannot get out of that contract - even though the price per STB is on a par with a TV, and that the STB's that they signed up to are older generation.
(I remember working on a government project years ago, which had a 5+ year lead time between development start and expected completion, however the hardware was purchased up front (that's the way the commonwealth purchase assets)... of course 5 years on when the project was ready to deliver the first thing they did was piss off all the outdated (and largely unused hardware) and recommissioned us to rework the product onto newer modern hardware.

I always laugh when I see people defending government stupidity such as this.

Wouldn't it have been easier to issue "vouchers" to entitled people which gave then $500 credit to be used "anywhere" on STB or TV. Stores would then receive the cash from governent upon purchase.

I always laugh when those that live in metropolitan cities think that the world stops at the 110kl road sign.

Take it from me that people that reside in the regionals & in the bush need at least a digital aerial. analogue are more or less bloody useless.

Not sure about cash handouts in lieu as who knows what or where that money would end up.

Granted in this day the price of a DTV would have been the way to go, not sure though when Howard thought of this scheme that the cost would have been cheaper.

 

[King Elvis]

My Grandmother lives in Cobram; she had to get her aerial replaced - was ~$150.

Other family who lives there didn't - they built their house ~15 years ago (instead of 50+ years ago) and their antenna from then was fine.

 

[Pie eyed]

You're not serious, surely?

The vast majority of people wont need a new aerial for Digital TV, same with a booster. Those that do - I had Jim's Antennas out the other week, under $200 to replace and relocate my antenna.

It uses the same aerial cable as analogue.

Same outlets.

If you buy a TV, you don't need a Tuner, if you buy a Tuner, you don't need a TV.

Installation of it all?

You plug it in.



What the ****?

You pre-suppose that everyone had a roof mounted aerial and cabled socket/s.

Many had nothing more than a TV and a set of rabbit ears prior to digital.
Many Analog aerials are NOT suitable for digital reception at all and many more will access certain channels and not others.
Early adopters paid enormous dollars for Digital boxes and flat screen TV's capable of HD.

The average Pensioner has no idea how to plug in let alone tune a set-top box.
You suffer from the illusion that everyone in society has the same grasp of technology as you. I know it simple as do the installers.
I installed my own aerial, amplifier, cables and socket.
Even put on additional power outlets.
Hell I even edited, "tweaked" and installed custom firmware on my PVR.

I don't expect everyone to be able to do any one of these tasks themselves.

The average person would have no chance on earth of doing any of this.


Many seem to think digital came in last month.

You seem to have built up the infrastructure to "seamlessly" switch to Digital over a long time and luckily your old analogue gear seems to be up to the task. That is rarely the case.