Another Cronulla on the way?

[RisingPhoenix]

Nobody has said that.

It's clear from our government actions that civillians in other countries are fair game.

What is the world supposed to do about IS then?

Sit by and allow these lunatics to do what they want?

I totally agree the US (and by complicity Australia) has meddled it's arse off and the consequences of that are coming to bare....but like I said, does that mean the world should now stand by and do nothing about IS?

And if we aren't going to put boots on the ground, then obviously it's from the air....which is not an exact science - innocents will get killed.

But to compare that to an off duty soldier being beheaded on the streets of the UK in full of the public....give me a break.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Ok am I going nuts here, but do we have blokes on here saying Australian soldiers are fair game when off duty on the streets of Australia?

Christ almighty.

Go back and read what is actually written, RP. Nobody advocated killing Australian soldiers on the streets of Australia.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

But to compare that to an off duty soldier being beheaded on the streets of the UK in full of the public....give me a break.

It is comparable. Drone strikes happen in full view of the public - indeed, members of the public are murdered all the time through drone strike and written off as 'collateral damage'. Look at this Amnesty International report - I quoted from its conclusion;

http://www.amnesty.org/ar/library/a...b54-47b3-b3fe-a72c9169e487/asa330132013en.pdf

...The USA’s assertion that it is engaged in an ongoing, global armed conflict against al-Qa’ida and associated forces has deeply troubling implications for human rights and the rule of law. It appears to be an attempt to license the use of intentional lethal force when it is not strictly unavoidable to protect life. Even where drone strikes are used in actual armed conflicts, statements by the US administration raise concerns as to whether basic concepts of international humanitarian law are being respected.

Suggestions that affiliation with an armed group is a sufficient basis for being targeted, together with the lack of clarity on which groups are considered “associated forces” leave a very wide scope for targeting individuals on impermissible grounds.

The practice of “signature strikes” appears prone to violating the presumption of civilian status. And secondary (or rescuer) strikes appear to violate the prohibition of targeting the injured, those who are hors de combat, and medical personnel.

US policy and practice on targeted killings and drones are not only of concern in their own right: they also set a dangerous precedent that other states may seek to exploit to avoid responsibility for their own unlawful killings. If unchecked there is a real risk that the continued use of drones by the USA and an increasing number of other states will further corrode the foundations of the international framework for the protection of human rights...

It is apparent that the Dominant World Power sets the precedent. Extrajudicial murder is cool.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I totally agree the US (and by complicity Australia) has meddled it's arse off and the consequences of that are coming to bare....but like I said, does that mean the world should now stand by and do nothing about IS?

So you seem to be saying that miltary action over there has created the monster, so let's sort it out with more military action?

Ive said this before; I dont know what to do.

But to compare that to an off duty soldier being beheaded on the streets of the UK in full of the public....give me a break.

Look if we're going off pure numbers, drone strikes are much worse. If there is a war between Islam and the West, the West has caused shitloads more casualities then them.

 

[pokerspiv]

A lot of angry racists don't get out and mobilise for anything. Cronulla was a far right wing group of extremists ruining a day that was never intended to get ugly or violent.

What race are muslims?

 

[mottrain]

What race are muslims?

Good luck. Literally love hearing the coup try to justify this that there is no different meaning between racist and religious hatred.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Go back and read what is actually written, RP. Nobody advocated killing Australian soldiers on the streets of Australia.

The Koran literally instructs Muslims to behead non-Muslims. I know Australians are apathetic and all, but concern is justified. Islam takes priority over country. I suspect the majority here tacitly support IS, and would still suspect it even if a poll claimed otherwise.

 

[Floor Pie]

The Koran literally instructs Muslims to behead non-Muslims. I know Australians are apathetic and all, but concern is justified. Islam takes priority over country. I suspect the majority here tacitly support IS, and would still suspect it even if a poll claimed otherwise.

That sounds like something you need to work on.

 

[Ron The Bear]

That sounds like something you need to work on.

No I don't think so. Taqiyya.

 

[madmug]

What is the world supposed to do about IS then?

Sit by and allow these lunatics to do what they want?

I totally agree the US (and by complicity Australia) has meddled it's arse off and the consequences of that are coming to bare....but like I said, does that mean the world should now stand by and do nothing about IS?

And if we aren't going to put boots on the ground, then obviously it's from the air....which is not an exact science - innocents will get killed.

But to compare that to an off duty soldier being beheaded on the streets of the UK in full of the public....give me a break.

If you look at some of the Wikileaks tapes, their is little protection for anyone when the USA decide to wade in & pull the trigger. Their is some comment that the other nations in the area will have to show a greater willingness to fight for them selves, rather than wit for the cavalry to do it for them.

The Saudis need to pulled into line, they have funded their own brand of lunatics in other nations for long enough. So too the Iranians. ISIS will go after them all, given enough time. So maybe some surgical airstrikes may be enough to slow them down. We do not want or need boots on the ground. I didnt work before & it wont work now. It just stirs up the crazies. The locals just need to grow a pair.

Now if we can just get the Israelis to enter into proper 2 state negotiations, we may see some progress in settling the ME mess down a little, maybe, perhaps, I hope, etc!

 

[Floor Pie]

No I don't think so. Taqiyya.

You think the majority of Muslims in Australia support IS?

You think the majority of Muslims in Australia support the IS beheadings? And the other actions of IS?

And you have said you would still believe it, even if their was evidence against it.

I stand by it being something you need to work on.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

You think the majority of Muslims in Australia support IS?

You think the majority of Muslims in Australia support the IS beheadings? And the other actions of IS?

And you have said you would still believe it, even if their was evidence against it.

I stand by it being something you need to work on.

Let's reframe the question.

When it all boils down to it, would Muslims ultimately choose there faith and there direct community over Australia and the rule of law?

I suspect the answer to that may be less black and white somehow.

 

[Ron The Bear]

You think the majority of Muslims in Australia support IS?

You think the majority of Muslims in Australia support the IS beheadings? And the other actions of IS?

And you have said you would still believe it, even if their was evidence against it.

I stand by it being something you need to work on.

Not necessarily the violence, but the cause.

Once had a friendly conversation during which I made an observation about Muslims in general, phrased as a statement, which encapsulated the principle of Taqiyya (before I'd heard of the word). The Muslim bloke I was chatting to (a well-adjusted moderate) blushed and turned away like a teenager caught perving.

Nothing against Muslims per se, but Islam's a dangerous religion.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Oh well, for better or worse, looks like a few of our 'operators' are heading over.

No bad thing.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Oh well, for better or worse, looks like a few of our 'operators' are heading over.

No bad thing.

For how long, though? The Taliban were smashed with far more military might than what is currently en-route to the Islamic State and they haven't gone away. From an article dated February of this year;

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11371138

...After more than a decade of war, the Taliban are a long way from being defeated and have been growing in strength. Many of Nato's territorial gains are by no means irreversible.

If the troop surge of 2010 was successful in stopping the Taliban's momentum in the south, it did not succeed in defeating the militants, especially in the north and centre where the alliance is thinner on the ground.

Insurgents have exacted a heavy toll - since 2001 more than 3,000 coalition troops have been killed in Afghanistan.

The pressure on Nato leaders to pull troops out has also been exacerbated by a series of "green-on-blue" attacks in which members of the Afghan security forces have turned their arms on coalition troops. At least 60 Nato personnel were killed in such attacks in 2012 - many more Afghan security force members have died at the hands of their colleagues, in so-called "green-on-green" attacks...

Is there an 'end game scenario' in place? Is there an 'exit strategy' here? The Afghan war has been the longest war deployment in U.S history - longer than World War One! Longer than World War 2!

What's gonna happen when things escalate against the Islamic State, who seem at least as well organised now as the Taliban ever were?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The Koran literally instructs Muslims to behead non-Muslims. I know Australians are apathetic and all, but concern is justified. Islam takes priority over country. I suspect the majority here tacitly support IS, and would still suspect it even if a poll claimed otherwise.

To hardliners the Koran, and more importantly Islamic laws coming from the Hadith (who have many authors from many eras in history, often contradicting one another) is indeed to be taken literally. In COMBATTING this ideology though, a holistic approach is needed.

How is it spread, this Salafist ideology? How does it feed and how does it grow?

Could Washington and pals alleviate concerns in the Islamic world by reconsidering foreign policy decisions and directions? Could they blunt the recruitment drive the Islamic State employs by righting some wrongs here and there highlighted by those concerns?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Could Washington and pals alleviate concerns in the Islamic world by reconsidering foreign policy decisions and directions? Could they blunt the recruitment drive the Islamic State employs by righting some wrongs here and there highlighted by those concerns?

These questions were asked after September 11. What do you think the US could do that would have such an effect, short of cutting ties with Israel?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Admit they made real mistakes backing tyrants like Morsi and the former Shah of Iran, because bitter resentment of Washington's meddling actually goes back DECADES in the Middle East. Stop backing the corrupt Royal House of Saud and the Gulf Monarchies, Emirates and Sultanates. They needn't ABANDON Israel, but the state in its current form leaves a LOT to be desired.

Of course, to push for change in Israel would mean locking horns with its own pro-Israel lobby. That won't be easy. But it wants to be the Sole Superpower. It has simultaneously connived and fought for 'American Exceptionalism' to be accepted internationally as the dominant worldview, but its continued belligerence leaves too many to question and doubt its motives in claiming altruism for itself and deserving leadership of the world order.

It needs to realise that it is NOT exceptional. Just another Empire, a non-territorial one this time, where Influence is as important as Possession, that demands its 'rightful' place.

In showing its human face, it may lead to trust.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Admit they made real mistakes backing tyrants like Morsi and the former Shah of Iran, because bitter resentment of Washington's meddling actually goes back DECADES in the Middle East. Stop backing the corrupt Royal House of Saud and the Gulf Monarchies, Emirates and Sultanates. They needn't ABANDON Israel, but the state in its current form leaves a LOT to be desired.

Of course, to push for change in Israel would mean locking horns with its own pro-Israel lobby. That won't be easy. But it wants to be the Sole Superpower. It has simultaneously connived and fought for 'American Exceptionalism' to be accepted internationally as the dominant worldview, but its continued belligerence leaves too many to question and doubt its motives in claiming altruism for itself and deserving leadership of the world order.

It needs to realise that it is NOT exceptional. Just another Empire, a non-territorial one this time, where Influence is as important as Possession, that demands its 'rightful' place.

In showing its human face, it may lead to trust.

You're over my head, I'm out. But cutting off Westerners' heads is no good.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

I'm aware most of these sorts of far right blokes are just keyboard and youtube hard men.....for example where were they when the sun went down and for two nights a virtual army of Lebanese Muslim youth ran amok in Cronulla Sutherland shire, bashing, stabbing, and vandalising with seeming impunity.

If there is a repeat of Cronulla, I would at least hope that aspect doesn't happen again....stand up for your communities local men.

What the actual *???

If Cronulla was to happen again, the thing you want to see is vigilantes? Seriously? I would want to see anyone involved in assaults prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And you're supposed to be an ex copper...

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Ok am I going nuts here, but do we have blokes on here saying Australian soldiers are fair game when off duty on the streets of Australia?

Christ almighty.

Who has argued that?

 

[Xsess]

According to this he was a "true warrior".
Currently serving soldier? Check.
Fought against Muslims? Check.
In their minds he was a valid target.

Good justification to end all Muslim immigration immediately. Its completely unacceptable that there's now private citizens actively engaged in "warfare" against their "own" countries.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Good justification to end all Muslim immigration immediately. Its completely unacceptable that there's now private citizens actively engaged in "warfare" against their "own" countries.

which private citizens are 'engaged in "warfare" against their "own" countries'?

 

[RisingPhoenix]

What the actual ****???

If Cronulla was to happen again, the thing you want to see is vigilantes? Seriously? I would want to see anyone involved in assaults prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And you're supposed to be an ex copper...

You have no idea what your talking about.

I'm more than happy to say I support the idea of communities defending themselves from seeing a repeat of what we saw in the nights following the Cronulla riot.

That's not to say I want to see car loads of Aussies driving around looking for 'Lebs' to bash, but if able bodied men want to defend there street with there neighbours.....no problem at all.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

You have no idea what your talking about.

I'm more than happy to say I support the idea of communities defending themselves from seeing a repeat of what we saw in the nights following the Cronulla riot.

That's not to say I want to see car loads of Aussies driving around looking for 'Lebs' to bash, but if able bodied men want to defend there street with there neighbours.....no problem at all.

Do you know what a vigilante is?