News Another Possible American Rookie

[loki04]

My theory would be to get the best and youngest possible athletic talent from the US regardless of if they are 211cm or 189cm, in the end they both need to learn the intricacies and nuance of the game but the best athlete from 188-196cm will be far more athletic and co-ordinated giving them even greater scope should they come on.

The argument ruck role is simple and can get a away with it are looking too tunnel visioned and am assuming you guys are referring to Pyke like ruck. ie provides a contest but is no star at his role although has now become competent due to Sydney's patients with his development.

For starters both the people we have recruited in Shae and now Cox are getting developed as both ruck and as a KPF so they are needing to learn both to be effective in our system.

On top of this the ART of rucking goes well beyond a "basket ball jump ball" that these 200+cm US college BBall athletes are used to, there is much more physicality needed and involved in the way our rucks contest.

Then there is body positioning,
- palming technique and cohesion with mids,
- follow up work when ball hits the deck (Good rucks should be splitting packs and contesting an art sadly lost to most this day and age Mummy being the best at it now),
- learning running patterns,
- cutting the diagonals,
- playing a kick behind play,
- dropping into the hole,
- being a link target between CHB and CHF,
- resting forward needing the full set of skills that a KPF has to really be effective in this role.

After all that they also need to learn team structures, team running patterns, hot spot zones, basic skills, game plan etc.

The theory they have less to learn is imo very very flawed.

 

[soreplums]

My theory would be to get the best and youngest possible athletic talent from the US regardless of if they are 211cm or 189cm, in the end they both need to learn the intricacies and nuance of the game but the best athlete from 188-196cm will be far more athletic and co-ordinated giving them even greater scope should they come on.

The argument ruck role is simple and can get a away with it are looking too tunnel visioned and am assuming you guys are referring to Pyke like ruck. ie provides a contest but is no star at his role although has now become competent due to Sydney's patients with his development.

For starters both the people we have recruited in Shae and now Cox are getting developed as both ruck and as a KPF so they are needing to learn both to be effective in our system.

On top of this the ART of rucking goes well beyond a "basket ball jump ball" that these 200+cm US college BBall athletes are used to, there is much more physicality needed and involved in the way our rucks contest.

Then there is body positioning,
- palming technique and cohesion with mids,
- follow up work when ball hits the deck (Good rucks should be splitting packs and contesting an art sadly lost to most this day and age Mummy being the best at it now),
- learning running patterns,
- cutting the diagonals,
- playing a kick behind play,
- dropping into the hole,
- being a link target between CHB and CHF,
- resting forward needing the full set of skills that a KPF has to really be effective in this role.

After all that they also need to learn team structures, team running patterns, hot spot zones, basic skills, game plan etc.

The theory they have less to learn is imo very very flawed.

I think recruiting players who are foreign to AFL need to have their roles simplified. Learning Structures would be difficult for them whilst trying to pick up the general skills of the game. If they were restricted to a key backman's role of sticking to their man and just punching the ball forward in contests, they may be a handy acquisition. Hopefully they will learn skills of running to position to create a shirt marking option and be able to kick over the mark.
Fwiw, I've always thought teenagers with a background in soccer, basketball and to an extent rugby, could make the tranisition into footy provided that their roles were simple

 

[suspect footskills]

My theory would be to get the best and youngest possible athletic talent from the US regardless of if they are 211cm or 189cm, in the end they both need to learn the intricacies and nuance of the game but the best athlete from 188-196cm will be far more athletic and co-ordinated giving them even greater scope should they come on.

The argument ruck role is simple and can get a away with it are looking too tunnel visioned and am assuming you guys are referring to Pyke like ruck. ie provides a contest but is no star at his role although has now become competent due to Sydney's patients with his development.

For starters both the people we have recruited in Shae and now Cox are getting developed as both ruck and as a KPF so they are needing to learn both to be effective in our system.

On top of this the ART of rucking goes well beyond a "basket ball jump ball" that these 200+cm US college BBall athletes are used to, there is much more physicality needed and involved in the way our rucks contest.

Then there is body positioning,
- palming technique and cohesion with mids,
- follow up work when ball hits the deck (Good rucks should be splitting packs and contesting an art sadly lost to most this day and age Mummy being the best at it now),
- learning running patterns,
- cutting the diagonals,
- playing a kick behind play,
- dropping into the hole,
- being a link target between CHB and CHF,
- resting forward needing the full set of skills that a KPF has to really be effective in this role.

After all that they also need to learn team structures, team running patterns, hot spot zones, basic skills, game plan etc.

The theory they have less to learn is imo very very flawed.

Very well put and right on the money IMO. It's fairly bizarre actually that generally speaking, it's an accepted theory that we should only look to recruit height from the U.S.
Irish recruits have come in all shapes and sizes and played in a wide variety of roles with great success. America has an enormous population size as well as an vast amount of ethnic/racial diversity. To go to the trouble of thinking outside the box recruiting wise and then work with such a narrow player profile seems counter intuitive.
There's a general belief that the Irish are somehow more given to learning our game faster as a result of AFL sharing some similarities with Gaelic football.
I don't accept that theory and IMO the ability of Irish players to play in as many positions as they do is due to the age at which they're recruited.
Americans coming to our game are usually 24 odd years of age and have spent time in the NCAA/College system. As a rule they're less likely to make it simply due to the much shorter timespan they have to learn the game and work at breaking their way into a side.
A time will come eventually when a U.S prospect will be recruited at a young age and set the game alight. I believe we'll eventually see a more diverse mix of player types from the states and have kids coming over after being identified at younger ages like the Irish now are.
It's not a well known fact due the sensitive nature of the topic but it's no fluke that many African American athletes have freakish physical capabilities. Slavery was big business and African American slave populations were often bred in the same way we breed livestock or thoroughbreds, resulting in bigger, stronger, faster workers. I would imagine we'll see some extraordinary players emerge from the U.S eventually. For now however it appears we're keeping to a "for needs" recruiting policy that only extends to big men.

 

[lenny&carl]

Hope not. Should give it to a highly rated local.player who actually has a chance of making it.

Uuuuurghh.. there is no "it" to give to a local, Pauline.

 

[jackcass]

hmm ok. I may be wrong. Fair enough. Perhaps I was thinking of the now defunct NSW development list and assumed it was a bit like that....where your players are basically on a VFL list but you have first right to promote them without having to go through the draft.

Cat B rookies (whatever type) are treated exactly the same as other rookies except for how they're drafted and exclusion from the salary cap. I think if they get promoted they then come under the salary cap.

 

[Markfs]

Some people seem to get upset at the thought that international players havent paid their dues to play in the AFL..... are they kidding?..

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Some people seem to get upset at the thought that international players havent paid their dues to play in the AFL..... are they kidding?..

Agree. The same could be said for Blicavs at Geelong, its a ridiculous proposition.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

There's a general belief that the Irish are somehow more given to learning our game faster as a result of AFL sharing some similarities with Gaelic football.

Its a very good theory too

 

[Markfs]

It's not a well known fact due the sensitive nature of the topic but it's no fluke that many African American athletes have freakish physical capabilities. Slavery was big business and African American slave populations were often bred in the same way we breed livestock or thoroughbreds, resulting in bigger, stronger, faster workers. I would imagine we'll see some extraordinary players emerge from the U.S eventually. For now however it appears we're keeping to a "for needs" recruiting policy that only extends to big men.

Someone needs to tell scientists about your "sensitive" theories..
http://www.livescience.com/10716-scientists-theorize-black-athletes-run-fastest.html
http://newsone.com/591035/scientists-discover-why-black-runners-are-faster-than-whites/

I'll be looking forward to hearing more of your theories about how the world works...

 

[loki04]

Someone needs to tell scientists about your "sensitive" theories..
http://www.livescience.com/10716-scientists-theorize-black-athletes-run-fastest.html
http://newsone.com/591035/scientists-discover-why-black-runners-are-faster-than-whites/

I'll be looking forward to hearing more of your theories about how the world works...

What happen to the extra muscle in their calf? might be 2 reasons as well as the whole chased by Lions their whole African ancestor history I know I'd be running faster with one of them on my arse!

 

[suspect footskills]

Someone needs to tell scientists about your "sensitive" theories..
http://www.livescience.com/10716-scientists-theorize-black-athletes-run-fastest.html
http://newsone.com/591035/scientists-discover-why-black-runners-are-faster-than-whites/

I'll be looking forward to hearing more of your theories about how the world works...

The article states that the best sprinters come predominantly from Jamaica, U.S and Canada with West African ancestry. Jamaica was part of the epicentre of the slave trade, a place where slaves would be transported to many destinations around the world. Many wound up in the U.S and many would have found their way to Canada. Probably in order to avoid the possibility of recapture and re-enslavement. Reaching a northern U.S state via the "underground railway" of safe houses along the Mississippi was no guarantee of future freedom.
I'm not sure what you find strange about my post. It's historical fact that in these centers of slavery, breeding of slaves in order to obtain desirable traits in the offspring was commonplace.
I think the fact that West African nations don't dominate says a bit also. One could argue about things that come into play such as diet etc. in allowing a person fully reach their genetic potential which is relevant. Jamaica and the U.S are vastly different however both in socio economic makeup and diet so it's very complex.
I'm sorry if you found my post in any way offensive but breeding for specific traits was very much a part of the slave trade. From the breeding of agricultural slaves with docile traits to Mandingo fighters with aggressive traits, it was widespread and not only focused on the physical aspects of the people being bred.
It makes me sick to think about it but there is historical evidence that proves it was effective. Breeding with the aim of stabilizing a certain phenotype takes time. The slave trade lasted hundreds of years in that area however and breeding of slaves began more or less from the outset.

 

[Markfs]

The article states that the best sprinters come predominantly from Jamaica, U.S and Canada with West African ancestry. Jamaica was part of the epicentre of the slave trade, a place where slaves would be transported to many destinations around the world. Many wound up in the U.S and many would have found their way to Canada. Probably in order to avoid the possibility of recapture and re-enslavement. Reaching a northern U.S state via the "underground railway" of safe houses along the Mississippi was no guarantee of future freedom.
I'm not sure what you find strange about my post. It's historical fact that in these centers of slavery, breeding of slaves in order to obtain desirable traits in the offspring was commonplace.
I think the fact that West African nations don't dominate says a bit also. One could argue about things that come into play such as diet etc. in allowing a person fully reach their genetic potential which is relevant. Jamaica and the U.S are vastly different however both in socio economic makeup and diet so it's very complex.
I'm sorry if you found my post in any way offensive but breeding for specific traits was very much a part of the slave trade. From the breeding of agricultural slaves with docile traits to Mandingo fighters with aggressive traits, it was widespread and not only focused on the physical aspects of the people being bred.
It makes me sick to think about it but there is historical evidence that proves it was effective. Breeding with the aim of stabilizing a certain phenotype takes time. The slave trade lasted hundreds of years in that area however and breeding of slaves began more or less from the outset.

I dont find things offensive. I do find them inaccurate at times. While a few people have referred to your "theory", I have seen any evidence to support it, other than "it sounds good".

I wonder why we dont see more black swimmers?

Here's another thought. The slaves were required to work long hours. Wouldnt that mean that they would be bred to be great marathon runners?

Just because something sounds possible, doesn't make it so.

As for your logic in the first paragraph...... johnny likes to eat cheese.... mice like to eat cheese....therefore johnny must be a mouse...

 

[loki04]

I dont find things offensive. I do find them inaccurate at times. While a few people have referred to your "theory", I have seen any evidence to support it, other than "it sounds good".

I wonder why we dont see more black swimmers?

Here's another thought. The slaves were required to work long hours. Wouldnt that mean that they would be bred to be great marathon runners?

Just because something sounds possible, doesn't make it so.

As for your logic in the first paragraph...... johnny likes to eat cheese.... mice like to eat cheese....therefore johnny must be a mouse...

Haha, Kenyan's say hello.

But I am not sure it was selective breeding that achieved it or the fact they have a slight genetic difference, that is not to say it hasn't also played a part.

 

[Markfs]

Haha, Kenyan's say hello.

But I am not sure it was selective breeding that achieved it or the fact they have a slight genetic difference, that is not to say it hasn't also played a part.

so black africans NOT involved in the slave trade have the endurance that cotton farmers wanted?....and yet the cotton farmers bred the slaves to be faster and better high impact workers when they probably should have been "manufacturing" slaves who could work for long hours on little food....

anyway, we should return to the burning question of whether we should rookie an overseas player who might take the spot of a little aussie battler...

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

I think it's quite encouraging we're looking outside of Australia for talent, especially America.

As someone who's been getting really into NFL over this off-season, you really notice the amount of Athletic talent within the American sporting systems, NFL of all sports is something of a future goldmine, a lot of College grade footballers won't make the NFL but have the attributes that would make them stand out above the rest in the AFL, and given some time could become great players, but unfortunately, many of those players would never, and will probably never hear about AFL.

As mentioned Mason Cox only found out about AFL through some Youtube clips, if he makes it, word reaches America about an alternate sport for aspiring young athletes to try their hand at, and due to Coxs' success, Collingwood becomes a premium destination for these Athletes.
All of a sudden we open ourselves to a pool of potentially incredible new talent we can pay outside of our salary cap.

Perhaps it won't be this bloke, but the fact we're looking outside the box is a positive start, AFL is becoming more and more an Athletes sport and it's safe to say most of the worlds best athletes aren't in Australia but in America.

Obviously give locals a shot, but if we're looking at International Rookies, America is where we should be focused.

A prescient post,Prestige Presti worthy of reposting (forgive the alliteration).

 

[suspect footskills]

so black africans NOT involved in the slave trade have the endurance that cotton farmers wanted?....and yet the cotton farmers bred the slaves to be faster and better high impact workers when they probably should have been "manufacturing" slaves who could work for long hours on little food....

anyway, we should return to the burning question of whether we should rookie an overseas player who might take the spot of a little aussie battler...

The highlands of eastern Africa weren't really accessible to many slave traders so they had to work with the gene pool they had access to. Predominantly west African.
I also doubt that endurance would have especially important when a whip was available to ensure work continued. Bigger, stronger slaves would take more punishment and would therefore be less likely to pose a problem to your finances as they'd die less often as the result of whipping, beatings etc.
This is obviously going off topic so perhaps we should kill it here. There are merits to both arguments and I think it could go on for quite awhile.
It is an interesting topic however and selective breeding is looking as though it will be a thing of the past. Now that we have the ability to isolate specific genes we'll likely see an issue arise with genetically manipulated athletes before the end of our lifetimes.

 

[Collingwood pro]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-17/nothing-will-stop-aurrichio
Just adding another article by AFL.com.

 

[vjknight]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-17/nothing-will-stop-aurrichio
Just adding another article by AFL.com.

Just read it. We gotta get this guy on board. Great writing.

 

[loki04]

Probably more advanced skills then Cox and very impressive athletically, still a LONG way off the skill needed for AFL but that will come with time.

 

[TradeDraft]

Probably more advanced skills then Cox and very impressive athletically, still a LONG way off the skill needed for AFL but that will come with time.

Well it sounds like he has been training since he made this video in Melbourne.

Looks better then what Shae Put out when he made his Video’s.

He be Worth a Go as a CAT B prospect as you can have 3 at a Time and could play VFL this year IF signed as a CAT B Prospect

 

[jackcass]

Well it sounds like he has been training since he made this video in Melbourne.

Looks better then what Shae Put out when he made his Video’s.

He be Worth a Go as a CAT B prospect as you can have 3 at a Time and could play VFL this year IF signed as a CAT B Prospect

Can we add anyone to the list outside of the draft processes? If not and we add him to our VFL squad, does that undermine his international rookie status as we'd be drafting him from the VFL?

EDIT: Just read the story and it states that if he plays VFL he COULD no longer qualify for international rookie spots. Have to wonder if clubs would take a gamble on him on their normal senior-rookie list. Guess that will depend on what he shows at VFL level.

PS: whats the story with Jordan Matera, is he on Richmonds list?

 

[TradeDraft]

Can we add anyone to the list outside of the draft processes? If not and we add him to our VFL squad, does that undermine his international rookie status as we'd be drafting him from the VFL?

EDIT: Just read the story and it states that if he plays VFL he COULD no longer qualify for international rookie spots. Have to wonder if clubs would take a gamble on him on their normal senior-rookie list. Guess that will depend on what he shows at VFL level.

PS: whats the story with Jordan Matera, is he on Richmonds list?

That is why I said we would have to put on CAT-B List before he can play VFL.

Who is Jordan Maetera?

 

[Et tu Nathan]

That is why I said we would have to put on CAT-B List before he can play VFL.

Who is Jordan Maetera?

Peters son I think I heard somewhere. Could be wrong. If it is and he has one fifth his fathers ability, he would be worth more than any speculative septic tank. He hasn't been looked at, so I'm either wrong on the parentage, or the guy has lost a limb.

 

[35Daicos]

Can we add anyone to the list outside of the draft processes? If not and we add him to our VFL squad, does that undermine his international rookie status as we'd be drafting him from the VFL?

EDIT: Just read the story and it states that if he plays VFL he COULD no longer qualify for international rookie spots. Have to wonder if clubs would take a gamble on him on their normal senior-rookie list. Guess that will depend on what he shows at VFL level.

PS: whats the story with Jordan Matera, is he on Richmonds list?

He's not on anyone's list. This appears to be his DOB:- 11-Apr-97.
So eligible for this year's draft. If he's any good we'll no doubt hear plenty about him, and he would surely end up at West Coast.

 

[Kilmo]

The article states that the best sprinters come predominantly from Jamaica, U.S and Canada with West African ancestry. Jamaica was part of the epicentre of the slave trade, a place where slaves would be transported to many destinations around the world. Many wound up in the U.S and many would have found their way to Canada. Probably in order to avoid the possibility of recapture and re-enslavement. Reaching a northern U.S state via the "underground railway" of safe houses along the Mississippi was no guarantee of future freedom.
I'm not sure what you find strange about my post. It's historical fact that in these centers of slavery, breeding of slaves in order to obtain desirable traits in the offspring was commonplace.
I think the fact that West African nations don't dominate says a bit also. One could argue about things that come into play such as diet etc. in allowing a person fully reach their genetic potential which is relevant. Jamaica and the U.S are vastly different however both in socio economic makeup and diet so it's very complex.
I'm sorry if you found my post in any way offensive but breeding for specific traits was very much a part of the slave trade. From the breeding of agricultural slaves with docile traits to Mandingo fighters with aggressive traits, it was widespread and not only focused on the physical aspects of the people being bred.
It makes me sick to think about it but there is historical evidence that proves it was effective. Breeding with the aim of stabilizing a certain phenotype takes time. The slave trade lasted hundreds of years in that area however and breeding of slaves began more or less from the outset.

Are you for real? Jesus.

"There is historical evidence" - care to provide some? Absolute nonsense my friend.