Science/Environment Anti-vacc Crazies at it again. Post appropriate outrage ITT

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All Australian
Mar 23, 2012
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It might be news to you that there is a world wide shortage of IC Nurses. Guess why?
Mate i work at the hospital i mentioned in my post above. Im giving an insight into whats happening. I watched my ex struggle to get employment as a nurse after graduating here during the outbreak of the pandemic, simply because she was born in Nepal. If you're going to ask a condescending sarcastic question you can cram it.
 

illavitar

All Australian
Jun 11, 2014
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You realise chelation therapy is outright quackery?
The American Board of Chelation Therapy, now renamed, The American Board of Clinical Metal Toxicology is made up of self appointed fakes.
Chelation therapists in the United States have set up certifying boards so they can call themselves "board certified." The American Board of Chelation Therapy (ABCT) was founded in 1982 by Charles Farr, M.D., who practiced chelation therapy in Oklahoma. The American Board of Clinical Metal Toxicology (ABCMT) was founded in 2003 and now has its headquarters in Chester, Ohio. Neither is recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS), which sets the certification standards for in the United States.

It is, like the vast majority of "organisations' involved in anti-vaccine propaganda made up of kooks and fringe loons all selling their specialist bunkum to the uneducated and gullible.
It is...all bullshit.

Chelation therapy is not quackery it's established science, I suggest you educate yourself the first study in my link for a start and it's been established to be effective countless times long before then. Where did you hear this nonsense anyway chelation therapy is even part of mainstream medicine!
 
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In recent years, chelation therapy has been recommended by some physicians and parents for children with autism. There is a belief among some people that autism is causally related to mercury poisoning from vaccinations. Some who believe this think that chelation, which, after all, removes heavy metals, might be effective as a treatment for autism. The scientific evidence, however, points strongly away from the conclusion that mercury is a significant causal factor in autism.* At best, one can say that chelation therapy is unproven for autism and could be dangerous.
http://www.skepdic.com/chelate.html
 

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illavitar

All Australian
Jun 11, 2014
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In recent years, chelation therapy has been recommended by some physicians and parents for children with autism. There is a belief among some people that autism is causally related to mercury poisoning from vaccinations. Some who believe this think that chelation, which, after all, removes heavy metals, might be effective as a treatment for autism. The scientific evidence, however, points strongly away from the conclusion that mercury is a significant causal factor in autism.* At best, one can say that chelation therapy is unproven for autism and could be dangerous.
http://www.skepdic.com/chelate.html

You don't actually understand the articles you are reading.The science is pretty clear on this since DMSA directly elevated heavy metals in the blood. Mercury poisoning is linked to autism and also shown to be a result of under methylation with DMSA effectively raising levels in the bloodstream.. The pathology of DMSA and the idea of faulty methylation was already tested in autistic individuals before this study, too bad buddy, DMSA chelated metals that weren't there in normal children. That means autistics have mercury poisoning as a result of faulty detoxification.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130225162231.htm

The pathology and effect of DMSA in autistic patients contradicts any nonsense that there is no link between the two. Read the study!
 
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Well that's bullshit of course. But I wont bother trying to reason with you as you seem to believe I and every other medical scientist and government in the world is involved in a massive conspiracy to help some drug companies profit (whilst con-artists, quacks and snake oil salespeople laugh all the way to the bank).

Just a quick point though.
If there is credible evidence that a treatment works, it's not alternative. It's mainstream.
 

Long Live HFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 30, 2010
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Chelation therapy is not quackery it's established science, I suggest you educate yourself the first study in my link for a start and it's been established to be effective countless times long before then. Where did you hear this nonsense anyway chelation therapy is even part of mainstream medicine!

not really true. chelation therapy is useful in a very select few situations. this of course gives rise to claims that go far beyond what chelation therapy is actually good for (which in typical woo fashion, becomes "everything!").

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Chelation_therapy
 

illavitar

All Australian
Jun 11, 2014
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It's absolutely hilarious that the information is there in those links for everyone to see yet you still come up with this crap that it isn't effective, nor what it means that it is effective on a biochemical level (they already understand the pathology of why it works and what it means). Come back to me when you understand the concepts of epigenetics, methylation, diet, foreign pathogens and oxidative stress and not the morning Herald.

Can you explain to me why it is scientifically incorrect or will you just keep disagreeing without any valid argument?
 

illavitar

All Australian
Jun 11, 2014
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ohhhhh sorry, I didn't realise you were a nutter. forgive me and don't bother replying to my previous post. lulz.

Yeah it's called taking samples and not administering chelation which is why the mercury doesn't show up in their flawed testing. Some people are extremely thick and unable to think for themselves. The whole concept is inadequate detoxification yet your stupid scientists blatantly test for it without DMSA expecting the body to magically move it into the blood for them like the ill-educated *s they are.

Fingers in ears. Proper testing by people who understand the actual patholgy of mercury poisoning found elevated mercury and other heavy metals in the blood, and your stupid tests didn't proving they're unreliable.

Where did all those metals come from if not from chronic exposure? Did the DMSA suck them into the blood from light energy or something?
 
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Long Live HFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 30, 2010
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cute! if you were nearly as knowledgeable as you claim, you would be publishing, not posting bollocks on a forum. good luck with that.
 

illavitar

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Just like global warming and evolution I'm sure. Shouldn't you be hotbedding in the mines somewhere offshore far far away from an internet connection?

I can't believe I have to wait another 20yrs for these backwards opinions to finally disappear from society once and for all.
 

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illavitar

All Australian
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Are you suggesting the DMSA concotced those metals out of fairy dust in those patients with elevated levels?

Or do you have another valid argument to refute that such as "conspiracy nutter" or "athiest hocus pocus"
 

Long Live HFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 30, 2010
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Just like global warming and evolution I'm sure. Shouldn't you be hotbedding in the mines somewhere offshore far far away from an internet connection?

I can't believe I have to wait another 20yrs for these backwards opinions to finally disappear from society once and for all.

you're actually on the side of the global warming deniers and creationists; as you're claiming all the established science is wrong, and that all the doctors are morons, when you are the truth and the way!

claiming something that hasn't been proven might make you a pioneer, but most often it's just some form of cognitive bias. call me old-fashioned but i'll wait for the published research before accepting your claims at face value. especially when you include such awesome nuggets like 'wakefield was right' (when I doubt you know anything about just how s**t his study actually was).
 

illavitar

All Australian
Jun 11, 2014
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you're actually on the side of the global warming deniers and creationists; as you're claiming all the established science is wrong, and that all the doctors are morons, when you are the truth and the way!

Are you suggesting the DMSA concocted those metals out of fairy dust in those patients with elevated levels?

Or do you have another valid argument to refute that such as "conspiracy nutter" or "athiest hocus pocus"

To directly explain your confusion. Science isn't one entity it is many groups of professionals funded by government, charity, private etc all over the world. Now the science you back has now been shown to be flawed and outdated by newer science.

That's the study and it's reliable source, sorry to disappoint you. I've explained how if they neglected to administer chelation prior to taking samples they would come up with the same results as your stupid scientists however these guys are far more clued on.

http://fullcircle.asu.edu/2013/02/7997
 

Long Live HFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 30, 2010
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Are you suggesting the DMSA concocted those metals out of fairy dust in those patients with elevated levels?

nope, i'm sure not saying that. what I AM saying is your inference, that the higher rates of heavy metals caused the autism, is not supported by the paper you cite.
 

illavitar

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nope, i'm sure not saying that. what I AM saying is your inference, that the higher rates of heavy metals caused the autism, is not supported by the paper you cite.

Well it's not that black and white you could say it does initially but you could say inadequate methylation/genetics caused the metals to build up over time. In the study they showed levels are directly associated with symptoms. However autism itself is a grouped disorder the autism part itself described as mitochondria deficit in cell energy, the body splits itself apart on a cellular level by initiating the Cell Defense Response. So the actual autism part is the CDR preventing the body from "talking" the drug suramin reverses symptoms completely.. However back in the 80's a study on HIV with suramin also showed it essentially reversed HIV symptoms completely also however the patients soon got sick and soon died. They're now debating whether the CDR is merely a hypo immune system that is dysfunctional or a genuine threat to cell life but it's already shown that parasites, metals, environmental toxins etc trigger the CDR response basically the CDR response is real and the body is flooded with s**t. Mercury is a key player and may be an actual cause due to it's relation with completely shutting off methylation genes along with inhibiting DPP4 enzyme (leading to dysbiosis/parsites), mercury is complicated, it can be inherited in the womb and is laced in mothers breastmlik http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15230985. Once methylation and the gut is compromised metals and pathogens get in and put the body under chronic oxidative stress initiating the CDR, lot of new science on guts and diets too, "leaky gut" syndrome and the enteric nervous system are now accepted science with strong links to autism.
 

Long Live HFC

Norm Smith Medallist
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sorry mate, I am merely familiar with that paper (and only that paper as far as this topic goes) as I have seen it previously used in this discussion to support woo conclusions/assertions.
 

Long Live HFC

Norm Smith Medallist
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I don't have a dog in this fight, but that is a pretty stupid position to take.

Fasting, for example, is a valid way to assist the body detoxify.

"detoxification" is one of those new-agey catch-all terms (like "energy") that is highly likely to indicate a practitioner of bullshit. it is rife in the alternative "medicine" literature and associated fanatics/fad diet nonsense. and you've fallen for one here (fasting). unlucky, you're a believer in bullshit.
 
"detoxification" is one of those new-agey catch-all terms (like "energy") that is highly likely to indicate a practitioner of bullshit. it is rife in the alternative "medicine" literature and associated fanatics/fad diet nonsense. and you've fallen for one here (fasting). unlucky, you're a believer in bullshit.
it may be rife, but it doesnt mean it is always bullshit.

With your throw away lines you re just demonstrating you are being as silly as the woo-merchants you deride.

Look, a detoxifying machine, must be bullshit!!!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialysis
 

Long Live HFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 30, 2010
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it may be rife, but it doesnt mean it is always bullshit.

With your throw away lines you re just demonstrating you are being as silly as the woo-merchants you deride.

Look, a detoxifying machine, must be bullshit!!!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialysis

lulz. please quote the portion that describes 'detoxification'. take your time.

there is 0 scientific evidence to support the 'detoxification' as it is commonly used in today's media/diets/fads. nor your assertion above re 'fasting' helping it along. you believe in bullshit!

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-detox-scam-how-to-spot-it-and-how-to-avoid-it/
 

Happy Mastenator

Chris Masten's Sock Puppet
Apr 16, 2010
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"detoxification" is one of those new-agey catch-all terms (like "energy") that is highly likely to indicate a practitioner of bullshit. it is rife in the alternative "medicine" literature and associated fanatics/fad diet nonsense. and you've fallen for one here (fasting). unlucky, you're a believer in bullshit.

Fortunately my crystals are blocking our your negative aura, the pyramid on my desk is actually turning that negative energy into positive energy.
 
Chelation therapy is not quackery it's established science, I suggest you educate yourself the first study in my link for a start and it's been established to be effective countless times long before then. Where did you hear this nonsense anyway chelation therapy is even part of mainstream medicine!
Off you go young man...post something which validates your claim.
 

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