Science/Environment Anti-vacc Crazies at it again. Post appropriate outrage ITT

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It might be news to you that there is a world wide shortage of IC Nurses. Guess why?
Mate i work at the hospital i mentioned in my post above. Im giving an insight into whats happening. I watched my ex struggle to get employment as a nurse after graduating here during the outbreak of the pandemic, simply because she was born in Nepal. If you're going to ask a condescending sarcastic question you can cram it.
 

swiftdog

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OK, even if the anti-vacc crazies (as per thread title) are correct and these vaccines increase the risk of autism you have two choices:

Choice 1 - Vaccinate your child and increase the chances he/she develops autism
Choice 2 - Don't vaccinate your child and increase the risk of, you know, death by completely preventable disease

Surely the choice is still an absolute no-brainer to vaccinate your child??
 

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Docker Clint

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OK, even if the anti-vacc crazies (as per thread title) are correct and these vaccines increase the risk of autism you have two choices:

Choice 1 - Vaccinate your child and increase the chances he/she develops autism
Choice 2 - Don't vaccinate your child and increase the risk of, you know, death by completely preventable disease

Surely the choice is still an absolute no-brainer to vaccinate your child??

Ive said it elsewhere, what kind of person would rather a dead child than risking a .001% of autism (assuming theyre right that autism can happen from vaccination)?
 
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Choice 1 - Vaccinate your child and increase the chances he/she develops autism
Choice 2 - Don't vaccinate your child and increase the risk of, you know, death by completely preventable disease

Surely the choice is still an absolute no-brainer to vaccinate your child??

When it comes to the anti-vaccine crowd, the term 'no-brainer' could not be more appropriate.
 
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I will never take a flu vaccination. Everyone I know who takes it at work and family has fallen sick within a week.
But did they get the flu? if they got a cold then it is completely unrelated and just a coincidence. A lot of people claim to have the fly, but the reality is they just have a heavy cold, which was made worse by there failure to act immediately upon feeling the symptons. The flu will knock you about for at least a week and a bad dose can leave you feeling it for over a month.
 
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Yeah, yeah. I am anti-science. If that is what makes you happy, keep believing it.
So what are you views about polio re-emerging in certain parts of the world then, surely there is absolutely no way you would want this disease to re-emerge. One of the greatest medical achievements of the 20th century was riding the world of Smallpox, but I guess you would've thought of it as a bit of a ho-hum thing.
 

Lebbo73

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So what are you views about polio re-emerging in certain parts of the world then, surely there is absolutely no way you would want this disease to re-emerge. One of the greatest medical achievements of the 20th century was riding the world of Smallpox, but I guess you would've thought of it as a bit of a ho-hum thing.
I am not anti-vacs. I just don't believe the flu vac is worthwhile. That is all. My children are vaccinated.
 
Bill Maher having a go at vaccines and "Western medicine".


http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2...an-antivaccine-wingnut-after-all-these-years/

Maher asked (with glee) about the news reports last week in which the CDC reported that the flu vaccine is 23% effective this year, you know, the stories and study that I discussed in depth on Friday. Maher continued by saying:

It’s a big scam to make money, but flu vaccines are bullshit. I was right, wasn’t I, Doc?

Dr. Gawande did his best to school the ever-ignorant Bill Maher, putting up with Maher interjecting periodically after parts of his explanation, “That’s why they’re bullshit.” For instance, Gawande explained patiently that flu vaccines depend on an educated guess made in February about what strains will be circulating in the fall, and that’s why their effectiveness can vary so much from year to year.
 

swiftdog

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The flu may not be a big deal for your average healthy adult, but you'd feel pretty bad if you were unvaccinated and transmitted it to an infant or an elderly person and they weren't so fortunate.

You would, but your standard anti-vaccer believes that "if your child is vaccinated then you've got nothing to worry about from my un-vaccinated child".:drunk:
 
The flu may not be a big deal for your average healthy adult, but you'd feel pretty bad if you were unvaccinated and transmitted it to an infant or an elderly person and they weren't so fortunate.
Flu vaccines are pretty hit and miss because the flu virus mutates every couple of weeks.
I think that was the posters point.
Flu vaccine simply stimulates the immune system to be active before a threat.
 

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The flu may not be a big deal for your average healthy adult, but you'd feel pretty bad if you were unvaccinated and transmitted it to an infant or an elderly person and they weren't so fortunate.

i would feel pretty shitty, I've never get the seasonal flu shot. not because i don't believe they work i'm just that lazy. full course of inoculations when i go overseas keep my vaccines up to date before flying but flu vac just before winter? i just shrug.
 
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I am not anti-vacs. I just don't believe the flu vac is worthwhile. That is all. My children are vaccinated.
Don't have a problem with people not getting the flu vaccine as it doesn't provide full cover against the flu, just the main strains and even then often will only turn it into equivalent of a cold. I used to get it when they gave me some free chuppa chups, but since they don't do that anymore at my work I couldn't be bothered.
 

CountryRace

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More evidence pot smokers will believe anything...

what are you getting at big pharma isnt after the shareholders best interest? would be the only company / industry going around with that mindset, just about, if that that case ... If it comes down to the general health of the great unwashed masses vs money why would the choose any other option outside of the most profit? Christian values?
 
what are you getting at big pharma isnt after the shareholders best interest? would be the only company / industry going around with that mindset, just about, if that that case ... If it comes down to the general health of the great unwashed masses vs money why would the choose any other option outside of the most profit? Christian values?

If pot had so many marvelous properties, they'd be extracted, refined and improved on and used in prescription medicines already.

That pot is banned doesn't mean there can't be derivatives approved for prescription use.


Sure, we certainly haven't worked out every potential medicine that can be determined from natural sources (yet), but the idea that there is this miracle cure for practically everything out there under everyones eyes and it's being hidden is just complete crap.
 
My source is:

a) it has "marvelous properties"
b) its largely not used in medicines presently

What, PROVEN "marvelous properties" does it have? (and no, stoners monthly is not a source of proof).


incorrect; money would be lost as people could and do make the like of ganja oil for free and it'd replace existing expensive items

Did you miss the bit about extracting and refining? Or the bit about the plant still being illegal, except for the drugs available by prescription?

Certain types of bark are/were the source of Asprin (IIRC), but when it comes to convenience and effectiveness, the refined, packaged drug wins every day.
 

CountryRace

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You don't consider the 43 medical studies posted a fair bit proven marvellous properties?

I got th bit on extraction and I agree. But they would eat up into other sales.

The plant is legal to sort-of-legal not in lots of places, south Aust. Act. Uruguay. Amsterdam. USA parts

Aspin can do a lot of damage.

I would assume chewing coca leaves while at work would be less damaging than doing lines. In regard to your bark comment.
 
Last edited:
You don't consider the 43 medical studies posted a fair bit proven marvellous properties?

Posted where? (if it's in this thread, sorry, but I'm not checking through 73 pages to find it).

I got th bit on extraction and I agree. But they would eat up into other sales.

The plant is legal to sort-of-legal not in lots of places, south Aust. Act. Uruguay. Amsterdam. USA parts

And if the big Pharma profit motive was as big/powerful as you presume, do you think enforcement of that
would change if it mattered?


Aspin can do a lot of damage.

I would assume chewing coca leaves while at work would be less damaging than doing lines. In regard to your bark comment.

Yeah, having known, regulated and studied quantities and qualities of active ingredients to take in defined circumstances is such a foolish way to handle medicines. Far better to go with 'use whatever seems right'.
 

CountryRace

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Brain Cancer

http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v95/n2/abs/6603236a.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11479216

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/21/17/6475.abstract

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/308/3/838.abstract

http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/10/1/90.abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17952650

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1576089/

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/37948

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/64/16/5617.full

Mouth and Throat Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20516734

Breast Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20859676

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18025276

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21915267

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/early/2006/05/25/jpet.106.105247.full.pdf+html

http://www.molecular-cancer.com/content/9/1/196

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22776349

http://www.pnas.org/content/95/14/8375.full.pdf+html

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/13/6615.abstract

http://endo.endojournals.org/content/141/1/118.abstract#fn-1

Lung Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22198381

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21097714

http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v27/n3/abs/1210641a.html

Uterine, Testicular, and Pancreatic Cancers

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/13/6748.abstract

Prostate Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12746841?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3339795/?tool=pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22594963

Colorectal Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22231745

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19442536

http://safeaccess.ca/research/pdf/MD_AndersonCancerStudy.pdf

http://gut.bmj.com/content/54/12/1741.abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25269802/

Ovarian Cancer

http://www.aacrmeetingabstracts.org/cgi/content/abstract/2006/1/1084

Blood Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12091357

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16908594

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.23584/abstract

http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/5/1612.abstract

Skin Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12511587

Liver Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21475304

Biliary Tract Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19916793

Bladder Cancer

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/803983 (Sign-up required to view)

Other Cancers

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12514108

Posted where? (if it's in this thread, sorry, but I'm not checking through 73 pages to find it).



And if the big Pharma profit motive was as big/powerful as you presume, do you think enforcement of that
would change if it mattered?




Yeah, having known, regulated and studied quantities and qualities of active ingredients to take in defined circumstances is such a foolish way to handle medicines. Far better to go with 'use whatever seems right'.

Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory
Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Source: Robyn Tamblyn, PhD; Laeora Berkson, MD, MHPE, FRCPC; W. Dale Jauphinee, MD, FRCPC; David Gayton, MD, PhD, FRCPC; Roland Grad, MD, MSc; Allen Huang, MD, FRCPC; Lisa Isaac, PhD; Peter McLeod, MD, FRCPC; and Linda Snell, MD, MHPE, FRCPC, "Unnecessary Prescribing of NSAIDs and the Management of NSAID-Related Gastropathy in Medical Practice," Annals of Internal Medicine (Washington, DC: American College of Physicians, 1997), September 15, 1997, 127:429-438, from the web at http://www.acponline.org/journals/annals/15sep97/nsaid.htm, last accessed Feb. 14, 2001, citing Fries, JF, "Assessing and understanding patient risk," Scandinavian Journal of Rheumatology Supplement, 1992;92:21-4.
Marijuana 0
Source: Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN), available on the web at http://www.samhsa.gov/; also see Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A. Benson, Jr., "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999), available on the web at http://www.nap.edu/html/marimed/; and US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition" (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 57.

http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/causes.htm



http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1082-3/aspirin-oral/aspirin-oral/details/list-sideeffects
 

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