Anyone else sick of hearing about ANZAC Day and what makes us Australian yet?

[Contra Mundum]

In the past, Roylion has mounted an argument to the effect that it was in Australia's interests to do so, because of England's pre-eminent position as a trading partner. To have done otherwise would have endangered this reliable supply of necessary goods for us, and in turn, interfered with our sales of agricultural products. He cited other reasons as well. I'm probably horribly misquoting him, for which I apologise in advance.

That makes sense actually- intuitively you would think that well over half of our trade would have been with them.

This from the ABS on historical trade:

AUSTRALIA'S TRADING PARTNERS

In 1900 the United Kingdom was Australia's primary trading partner. Total trade with the UK was over five times greater than the total trade with Australia's second largest trading partner, the United States of America. With the exception of the USA, the other major trading partners were either European countries or members of the British Empire, reflecting Australia's close historical association with the UK in its developing trading relationships.

 

[HARKER]

Politically it was because we were simply an extension of England. England entering the war on the French side and committing so many ground troops was the shock, Australia following England was automatic.
Originally the campaign was to be only a naval one, which was a direct result of the Brits trying to find a use for their navy. However the loss of ships in the Dardanelles sort of turned it into an invasion by committee which we now know was hopeless.

I'm all for remembering the day, WWI was brutal and it may lose its lustre in time but that will be 1-2 generations away at least.

It seemed to be on its way out some years ago before politicians/commentators rallied and put it back on the agenda.
I may be wrong here, as Anzac Day was never a day I chose to remember the fallen I never knew (WW1 / 2 / Korea / Vietnam etc) but the political push did take up my interest up for a couple of years.................but that moment has well gone.
I hope that anything attached to war (any war) will be viewed upon as something from a primitive age........although I don't particularly trust my hope.


"Gallipoli tends to seem strange to outsiders, as it appears to be a celebration of Australia's greatest defeat, but in essence it is rather a commemoration of those who died serving Australia in battle, be it warranted or not."

I find this part of this quote, interesting...............yet it's something that is shunned upon when opened for discussion.

 

[Qsaint]

That makes sense actually- intuitively you would think that well over half of our trade would have been with them.

This from the ABS on historical trade:

AUSTRALIA'S TRADING PARTNERS

In 1900 the United Kingdom was Australia's primary trading partner. Total trade with the UK was over five times greater than the total trade with Australia's second largest trading partner, the United States of America. With the exception of the USA, the other major trading partners were either European countries or members of the British Empire, reflecting Australia's close historical association with the UK in its developing trading relationships.

It wasn't economic other than a few Irish catholics 90% thought of themselves as English it was purely a patriotic response to the motherland by he British subjects. The Anzac myth pushed by bean etc was a later phenomenon

 

[Gus Poyet]

It wasn't economic other than a few Irish catholics 90% thought of themselves as English it was purely a patriotic response to the motherland by he British subjects. The Anzac myth pushed by bean etc was a later phenomenon

The Irish were the first true Aussie patriots.

 

[Contra Mundum]

It wasn't economic other than a few Irish catholics 90% thought of themselves as English it was purely a patriotic response to the motherland by he British subjects. The Anzac myth pushed by bean etc was a later phenomenon

The "few" Irish Catholics defeated the conscription referendum in Victoria - Dan Mannix we thank you!

 

[Gus Poyet]

The "few" Irish Catholics defeated the conscription referendum in Victoria - Dan Mannix we thank you!

One of my ancestors was at it too... He may have even met a young Mannix.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/ologhlen-sir-bryan-4331

 

[Contra Mundum]

One of my ancestors was at it too... He may have even met a young Mannix.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/ologhlen-sir-bryan-4331

I was raised to hate him because of the split - he participated in a rally in support of the Easter Uprising in about 1916 that was held at race track owned by Jack Lang and the Victorian Government where going to charge him with sedition - you got to respect that!

 

[Gus Poyet]

I was raised to hate him because of the split - he participated in a rally in support of the Easter Uprising in about 1916 that was held at race track owned by Jack Lang and the Victorian Government where going to charge him with sedition - you got to respect that!

I think you've got that round the wrong way mate. He originally opposed the Easter Uprising. He was against the Nationalists using force.

If I remember rightly it was a few years later he started to get a bit more radical on the issue. After the death of a hunger striker.

 

[Contra Mundum]

I think you've got that round the wrong way mate. He originally opposed the Easter Uprising. He was against the Nationalists using force.

If I remember rightly it was a few years later he started to get a bit more radical on the issue. After the death of a hunger striker.

Actually Guy I think it was earlier than the Easter Uprising - it was just a Fenian rally just after he got here. Still he stuck it up the powerful Protestant establishment - which is always good

 

[Gus Poyet]

Actually Guy I think it was earlier than the Easter Uprising - it was just a Fenian rally just after he got here. Still he stuck it up the powerful Protestant establishment - which is always good

And a man of true democratic beliefs. Even though he held extreme prejudiced views against the communists he still voted against banning them in the referendum.

A mind set many people could take a leaf out of his book with a great many issues today.

 

[Qsaint]

The "few" Irish Catholics defeated the conscription referendum in Victoria - Dan Mannix we thank you!

Good for something then, mannix is another matter altogether, BA's mate.

Point being there was no concept of a cultural seperate oostralia in 1914

 

[Pie eyed]

wtf how do you "fight for peace"?

Viciously.

 

[Borry]

Well I unfortunately got a glimpse of seven's morning edition news whilst on break and it seems to be a race to the bottom between the commercial stations to get the best view of these from the ones privileged to go to Gallipoli. Or even a race to see which celebrity can pull them off the best.

Despite this I am glad I do not have access to FTA at home and my Foxtel Play is currently experiencing technical problems. I don't buy papers either.

 

[kickazz]

For those who are sick of how the ANZAC story gets twisted / marketed I can recommend tuning in to ABC Extra on digital radio - they are running stories in a loop that include plenty of first-person accounts of folks who were actually there.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Good for something then, mannix is another matter altogether, BA's mate.

Point being there was no concept of a cultural seperate oostralia in 1914

The ANA (Australian Native's Association) had 10s of 1000s of members Q (and they did not mean actual natives but people who were born here)

 

[QuietB]

The ANA (Australian Native's Association) and 10s of 1000s of members Q (and they did not mean actual natives but people who were botn here)

I saw an old poster or sign for the ANA in a pub in Hawthorn once. I was surprised that the indigenous community had managed to actually organise themselves in such a way back then. Then I read the sign in more detail It appears white Australia (only those born here of course) considering themselves superior in every way is not a new concept

 

[little graham]

In front of the Aboriginal Embassy in Canberra, there is a sign saying ORIGINAL SOVEREIGNTY. Beside it flies the Aboriginal flag. Most days a fire smoulders directly in front. This confronts visitors as they stand on the steps of the old "wedding cake" Parliament House to take in the vista of clipped lawn and silvery lake, across to the Australian War Memorial, Australia's foremost secular shrine. For decades, the memorial has been Canberra's most popular public institution – its mandate "to assist Australians to remember, interpret and understand the Australian experience of war and its enduring impact on Australian society".

By the most conservative estimates some 20,000 Australian Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders, and at least 2,000 settlers, died in fighting across the Australian frontier from 1788 until the last established massacre of Indigenous Australians at Coniston, Northern Territory, in 1928. The conflicts involved colonial police and soldiers, settler militias and raiding parties. But the memorial refuses to tell the story of Australia's first colonial conflict.

Consecutive memorial directors have referred to the institution's 1980 Act, stipulating that they must tell the story of "wars and war-like operations in which Australians have been on active service, including the events leading up to, and the aftermath of, such wars and warlike operations".

This intransigence has been a source of bitter division among directors, historians and archivists for decades. At times it has hinged on little more than semantic argument over whether the conflict was "war" (were the Aboriginal fighters guerrilla warriors?) and whether the locally raised militias, police and British military units qualified as an Australian defence force.

Historian and former memorial deputy director Michael McKernan thinks so. Of the memorial's position that all this is the responsibility of the National Museum of Australia, he says: "It seems to me that is like saying that you've been put in charge of telling the story of Australia at war, but that that particular part of the story is too confronting or too uncomfortable – too hard, for whatever reason."

http://nationalunitygovernment.org/content/bone-collectors-brutal-chapter-australias-past

 

[Contra Mundum]

For those who are sick of how the ANZAC story gets twisted / marketed I can recommend tuning in to ABC Extra on digital radio - they are running stories in a loop that include plenty of first-person accounts of folks who were actually there.

I am with you brother! Did you see the last of the Anzac Diggers interviewed by Chris Masters on Four Corners - they were all appalled by the glorification of war and the Gallipoli Campaign in particular. Howard had to wait until they all died to make it into the Sacred Day for White Australia

 

[tigerninja]

I am with you brother! Did you see the last of the Anzac Diggers interviewed by Chris Masters on Four Corners - they were all appalled by the glorification of war and the Gallipoli Campaign in particular. Howard had to wait until they all died to make it into the Sacred Day for White Australia

Didn't you watch afl 360 last night? It's as much a sacred day for indigenous people as well. You're a campaigner!

 

[Gough]

White male Australia. Where are the stories of the women left behind? Or those whose husband's didn't come home, or came home strangers? If we believe the ANZAC myth, somehow you need to be shot at before your contribution can be considered sacrifice.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Didn't you watch afl 360 last night? It's as much a sacred day for indigenous people as well. You're a campaigner!

AFL 360 the essential arbiter of cultural tropes and the definitive reference point for historical controversies. Sending Australians to the slaughterhouse should be mourned not celebtrated

 

[tigerninja]

AFL 360 the essential arbiter of cultural tropes and the definitive reference point for historical controversies. Sending Australians to the slaughterhouse should be mourned not celebtrated

Well it was an Indigenous man in the current Australian navy that was on the show that reckons you're a campaigner.

Celebrating them is a part of mourning.

If we couldn't do that then there shouldn't be wake's after funerals either.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Didn't you watch afl 360 last night? It's as much a sacred day for indigenous people as well. You're a campaigner!

Sonny I have got two books for you to read

one by a German: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Quiet_on_the_Western_Front

and one by an Englishman: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/wilfred-owen

 

[tigerninja]

Sonny I have got two books for you to read

one by a German: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Quiet_on_the_Western_Front

and one by an Englishman: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/wilfred-owen

Sonny I aint reading s**t from a german or a pom.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Well it was an Indigenous man in the current Australian navy that was on the show that reckons you're a campaigner.

Celebrating them is a part of mourning.

If we couldn't do that then there shouldn't be wake's after funerals either.

The deaths were pointless, the campaign was incompetent and we had no good reason to be there. Anyway read the two books I suggested and then get back to me