Are Collingwood a flag threat?

blaisee

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Well given Buckley is 3-1 over Richmond, I was just curious as to why you'd think he's doing a bad job?

Collingwoods slide down the ladder under Buckley since he took over in 2012

2011 2nd
2012 4th
2013 6th
2014 11th
2015 11th

The trend is not your friend, my friend
 

MotleyLemon

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Dec 8, 2011
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What other 5? Here's the list you gave me.

O.Brien
Dawes
Wellingham
Beams
Dawes
Thomas

Wellingham and Beams are the only ones you could possibly make a case for, and both wanted to go. You are aware that every team has players who leave, one way or another? Should the Cats have kept Shannon Byrnes solely because he was a premiership player?
 

Darroj_6

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Jun 20, 2008
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Collingwood
O.Brien
Dawes
Wellingham
Beams
Dawes
Thomas

that's 1/3 of the team. `

No premiership players should be traded. Its a cultural thing that Buckley threw out the window. Probably because he never played in a premiership so he wouldn't know.


Collingwood for better or worse have played their post premiership rebuild (2012 trade period I'm particular) almost like someone playing a sports video game. They have traded out mid level players flipped them for draft picks and used free agency to replace them without giving anything away. For the Dawes/broomhead trade Collingwood brought in Q.Lynch to effectively replace Dawes. The Wellingham/Grundy trade Pies also brought in C.Young to be a more outside version of Wellingham. Moves were made both for the present and future simultaneously. The hope was clearly to remain competitive whilst retooling.

Did it work short term? Absolutely not. Lynch and Young were for the most part failures despite looking fairly comparable to Dawes, Wellingham when they were first brought in.

Are the Pies in a better spot now? Given current evidence I would personally prefer to have Broomhead & Grundy than Dawes & Wellingham.

What if they hadn't been traded? I doubt we could have competed for a flag with the same list and given the concerns about cap space. Culturally it may have made it harder to retain Beams and Thomas but given the returns for them (Crisp, Schaeenberg, De Goey) we haven't been losers yet. If things break well we could become a contender again or we will find ourselves as the Middle of the road team we likely would have been without the trades
 

MotleyLemon

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Shows how much you've been watching of wellingham when making a call like that, has been playing in the backline all year.

And averaging 3 R50's a game?

Looks like a spare parts utility to me, playing back due to your injuries/his failures as a midfielder.
 

10571z

Brownlow Medallist
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Are Collingwood a flag threat?

I would say yes. After these next 2 wins we should be on a bit of a roll coming into finals. With reid slotting back in i would say after defeating richmond week one and playing sydney week 2 a preliminary finals berth will be in order. We will defeat Freo who will be decimated by injury. in the grand final we will go in and destroy the hawks.
 

Soaring Magpie

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Shows how much you've been watching of wellingham when making a call like that, has been playing in the backline all year.
I would say the trade has been a win/win for both clubs, wellingham is playing good footy now he has got his body right and Grundy looks to be a future gun ruck.
Not sure why people are arguing over this teade
 

Soaring Magpie

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Are Collingwood a flag threat?

I would say yes. After these next 2 wins we should be on a bit of a roll coming into finals. With reid slotting back in i would say after defeating richmond week one and playing sydney week 2 a preliminary finals berth will be in order. We will defeat Freo who will be decimated by injury. in the grand final we will go in and destroy the hawks.
And what a lovely dream that was!!
 

Soaring Magpie

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Collingwoods slide down the ladder under Buckley since he took over in 2012

2011 2nd
2012 4th
2013 6th
2014 11th
2015 11th

The trend is not your friend, my friend
You really should be looking in your own backyard and concentrating on when Richmond will win a final again, were you even alive the last time that happened?
 

Underdog

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And averaging 3 R50's a game?

Looks like a spare parts utility to me, playing back due to your injuries/his failures as a midfielder.
He's a defender. Try watching the game.

The ball rarely ventures to our defence and our makeshift defence is full of quality rebounding players. We don't need Wellinghan monopolising the outlet from defence.
 

SA HAWK

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Collingwoods slide down the ladder under Buckley since he took over in 2012

2011 2nd
2012 4th
2013 6th
2014 11th
2015 11th

The trend is not your friend, my friend
Doubt they would be that much better now if they had kept players like Shaw, Dawes & O'Brien but i think they will be better off in 2-3 years time for having moved them on and playing kids instead.
 
Jun 4, 2005
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Shows how much you've been watching of wellingham when making a call like that, has been playing in the backline all year.
Wellingham has been good for WCE this year.

But we have been able to give Langdon and M.Williams the responsibility to play HB, they are doing a fine job.

We also have guys like Oxley, Ramsay, Seedsman and Scharenberg as other HB/wing options.

Wellingham ain't missed.

Similar to H.Shaw, Taylor Adams is killing it for us in the middle...big reason we lost the last two games was losing him, Elliott and Cloke.

The funniest thing is that people are using a guy like Dawes as a big loss, he is barely even in the Dees best 22 - Hogan, Gawn, Pederson, Watts, Howe better options.
 

LukeH10

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Jul 19, 2015
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We were never a flag threat this year. Expectations like this always meant people would look at this season as a fail but it is far from it. We've seen the development & growth of some serious young talent, still learning and moulding as a team out on the park. We have come so so close to some of the best in the comp with little lapses costing us at times which is to be expected from a young side. In time these lapses will be a non occurrence and we will be winning these games. I see 2017 & beyond as our real next shot at a flag. I'm enjoying the ride with this group and my humble opinion is that Bucks has and is doing an astounding job. FYI, our depth of talent just waiting in the wings is scary good. Go Pies
 
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Pies are building. Maybe not this year as the rounds roll on but definitely should expect to play finals in the following years. #1 trade priority should be a lock down small defender with offensive run and disposal. Of all players that have left pies in recent years Shaw and to a slighly lesser extent Lamumba are the hardest to replace structurally.

I would consider putting Pendles or Swan in that half back role and letting the Pies kids carry the load in the middle. They have the depth their to do so.
 

Seedsfan

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Pies are building. Maybe not this year as the rounds roll on but definitely should expect to play finals in the following years. #1 trade priority should be a lock down small defender with offensive run and disposal. Of all players that have left pies in recent years Shaw and to a slighly lesser extent Lamumba are the hardest to replace structurally.

I would consider putting Pendles or Swan in that half back role and letting the Pies kids carry the load in the middle. They have the depth their to do so.
Pendlebury will stay on the ball
 

northpie

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Oct 9, 2014
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How is White superior to Dawes?

In what way?

And as for Beams, he has won a Best Fairest, played in a premiership and been All Australian.

Those boys you mentioned have a long long way to go to have that resume, infact I would be betting against it as it extremely unlikely for any player to reach this level, thats why Beams is elite, and whatever you got for him was going to unders, players like that just cant be replaced.
I don't think I have
Selling wellingham well short there i think. Had a very ordinary 2013 and 2014 due to injury, but this year has been one of our most consistent performers, i'd even argue he has been top 5 or close to in most games this year. Very good decision maker, good overhead mark and an accurate kick.
I think you rcomment are fair actually
still not sure he hurt us too much in leaving THE PIES
 

Yippy Yi Yeo

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And averaging 3 R50's a game?

Looks like a spare parts utility to me, playing back due to your injuries/his failures as a midfielder.
stupid thing to say when you don't look at the context of the stat. West coast have the least amount of rebound 50s out of any team, by a fair margin as well, and a big part of that is our defenders have been so good at keeping it out, and sending it back forward. Useless stat to judge a defender on really when they could be taking 80% of their disposals 10 metres in front of the defensive 50m arc. Looks like a very useful backman to me and anyone else who watches eagles games, but to a collingwood supporter with his head up his ass, more than likely having only seen him play in the collingwood v west coast game 2 weeks ago, maybe he does look like a spare parts utility. He hasn't failed as a midfielder, adam simpson realised his potential as a defender and we haven't looked back since. 20 disposals a game at 78 % efficiency, 3 inside 50s a game as a defender, very solid contributor for mine and many others, and a big part of the reason west coast's defense has held up so well this year.
 

Yippy Yi Yeo

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Wellingham has been good for WCE this year.

But we have been able to give Langdon and M.Williams the responsibility to play HB, they are doing a fine job.

We also have guys like Oxley, Ramsay, Seedsman and Scharenberg as other HB/wing options.

Wellingham ain't missed.

Similar to H.Shaw, Taylor Adams is killing it for us in the middle...big reason we lost the last two games was losing him, Elliott and Cloke.

The funniest thing is that people are using a guy like Dawes as a big loss, he is barely even in the Dees best 22 - Hogan, Gawn, Pederson, Watts, Howe better options.
The only reason collingwood lost to west coast was because they are aren't as good as west coast, and the only reason it was a remotely close game was because the eagles had one of their off days, and the field/goal umpires desperately trying to keep the game a contest. With good umpires, both teams kicking accurately and even cloke and elliot back in the side, it would've been much uglier, the scoreline really flattered collingwood.
 
OK

My question is why did all these players all of a sudden want to leave as soon as Buckley was put in charge?

Why was one of the youngest premiership teams in history have to be dismantled and ripped apart by Nathan Buckley?

Why couldn't he build on what he had like Chris Scott did at Geelong?

IMHO there was absolutely no need for all these players to be moved on, in the hope that one day the players you got for them may one day be as good as the players you moved on. If Buckley actually had some man management skills and an ability to lead men ( like Chris Scott ) this would not have been necessary and you would have been better off. People should not forget that Buckley inherited a premiership team, and has made them worse every year he has been in charge.
I think a lot of what you say is reasonable. There are questions especially for Heath Shaw who didnt want to go. Bucks I reckon needed to find a way to keep him. There is also the question of the team going off the rails a little at the end of MMs time. Daisy, there are a lot of reports he had become a loose cannon and bad influence. Both Luke B and Pendles, who didnt need the laxity Mick gave to some, said in interviews in 2012 that we needed more disipline and things had got a bit too loose. Dont think you can sheet home all the issues here to Bucks, he could of managed better but there is also evidence MM had let things slide too much.

Bottom line is do you believe that if we had held that team together we had a good shot at another flag 2013 onwards. Remember that team pretty much stayed together in 2012 and was hit hard by injuries and Johnny Macs death so Bucks did a good job in his 1st year. 4 ACLs and a lot of other injury concerns.

I dont see a flag for that list 2013 onwards so with hindsight, i did worry at the time, Bucks path is probably best although he could still have been a better man manger early on.
 
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