Strategy Are Jack and Tyrone just a poor fit together?

[telsor]

A tad hard to gauge this year. They should be a good fit. An elite mid-size forward (Jack) who plays tall and is also good at ground level, and a 200cm+ forward who provides a contest and can either clunk a mark or bring the ball to ground level.

Ty really hasn't held up his end of the bargain thus far this year.

And for the record I'm fairly sure he had the laser eye surgery a few years back.

Jack, Mid sized? You're kidding right. He's 195cm!

Just because he isn't a giant doesn't make him 'mid sized'. That's more a description for the likes of Aaron Edwards.

 

[Bojangles17]

In my preview of the Collingwood game, I made the suggestion that we left Hampson out (he was out injured the week before) and alternate Vickery and Griffiths between ruck and forward against an inexperienced Grundy and Witts.

Vickery needs to lift but I also think he needs a bit of variety and I thought his ruckwork improved greatly last year. I also think our forward line should have only 2 talls. When Maric comes back, I don't think him and Hampson should be in the same side unless Hampson's handling of the footy improves significantly in the coming weeks. His ruckwork has been great but not enough else has. I hope he lifts in the other departments.

not as silly as it sounds,

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

not as silly as it sounds,

I'd punt Hampson to the twos and bring Vickery in to Ruck and alternate with Griff. I'd also promote Elton if one of these guys gets a niggle.

When Maric comes back one of those guys will lose their space . Hampson is never going to be the answer over griff , Tyrone and Elton. The funny thing is of they had played griff in the ruck more at Coburg last year they wouldn't have seen the reason to waste our second round pick on a dud like Hampson.

Hampson will most likely retire at years end or possibly the end of 2015. He doesn't want to be a footballer and he doesn't need the money.

 

[Spluff]

Well he's having a hard time fixing Wibur's **** ups Spluff.

What's he in charge of now? Midfield sucks, let me guess he's in there now?

Midfield spread.

 

[partycorolla]

right now, I think he can contribute more than what Griff can, however his form has been deplorable and attitude to boot. until he owns games in the VFL he should remain where is and continue to give the senior ops to griff...I might add as a twist that griff sure as heck hasn't cemented a spot in my books...Id be seriously considering pushing up Elton for a game in that same Forward/ruck role if griff doesn't take it up a notch in coming weeks

Can't agree with this. Griff is the reason TV is in the 2's.... if Griff wasn't playing reasonable footy it would be him not TV down in the magoos. The one thing Griff needs is continuity at senior level. His confidence is growing every minute he spends on the park and his contribution from his 11 possies against Bris was far more than most people manage from 11 possessions. He is only going to get better and better. When Elton starts dominating at VFL level he can be considered for a spot somewhere....

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

Or is Tyrone just not very good?

Was watching Dimma's dissection for this week just before and he showed a really interesting piece of vision to show Jack's work rate off. First of all his work rate there is exceptional. Secondly the vision shows exactly what I was banging on about earlier in the season about why he needs to play deeper. He doesn't have the ability to make 50-100m leads like his cousin but the bloke is absolutely brilliant at the 10-20m short leads and then hooking back and forward working the defender over until his opponent has no fricken idea what is going on. He's a very smart footballer our Jack.

Would really be interested to see the same sort of vision from games with Tyrone playing. Jack just seemed to have soooo much space to work into in that vision. He almost had free reign over the F50. A lot of the time Tyrone is using up that same space.

On a side note, I really like Tyrone and have stuck up for him for a few years. (His attitude has been crap lately.) Personally I think he can play AFL footy to a pretty high level. But are Tyrone and Jack just a poor fit together? Using basketball as an example (we all know Dimma loves his US sports ) if you have 2 good/star players playing together but neither are great shooters and need to score close to the rim they are easy to defend. Swap one out for a good 3 point shooter and the fit is much better and harder to defend. Using our forward line as an example are Tyrone and Jack 2 guys that need to play close to goal (the rim) and is Griff the 3 point shooter that can space the floor (forward 50 area)

Hope that makes some sense. If it doesn't I'm tired so leave me alone.

If you're using basketball as an example then it would have to be LA Lakers last season with Pau and Howard. By themselves they were significantly better and occasionally played well together (carlton). Griffiths would be a Jordan Hill who was able to work with either as he was able to bring energy and pressure into the game.

Hopefully Vickery can get some form in the 2's and preferably come into the side, being able to work in the three man tall forward line and if not then perform very well in the 2's and ask for a trade at the end of year in doing so getting a decent return for him (pick 10-20).

 

[TJTIGER]

Does Tv have the tank to Rome further up the ground like a wing ? To get more involved in the play more. I think thats where he does work well...

 

[pebblestone]

Williams isn't in charge of the forwardline anymore, Lade is.

Case closed.

 

[living_in_syd]

needs to gert bigger and better and become the new maric down the track

 

[TheProwler]

Does Tv have the tank to Rome further up the ground like a wing ? To get more involved in the play more. I think thats where he does work well...

Sure as hell isn't working just in the fwd 50. I would play him at half back for the next month (VFL) to get him into the game a little more. If he doesn't have the tank by now to roam the ground and get involved then I doubt he will ever get it.

Clock is ticking for this guy and every time he plays it's not just us but the media watching him now.

Imagine if he had half the ticker Jack does

 

[Neen]

If Dimma and co didn't fiddle with the structure over summer, I don't think the form issue with vickery may be as bad as it appears. If the coach taps you on the shoulder and tells you that the dual Coleman Medalist would play up the ground and be your decoy, it would be a huge responsibility for him, and also knowing that we are expected to play finals, that's even tougher.

In isolation, Vickery has had a bad start. In the games where he was the main target, the delivery was shocking. Now we have reverted back to a 2013 structure, this has left him totally confused and his body language reflects that. Quite simply, he has zero confidence. The only way back is to work hard and earn promotion. I agree with him being dropped, but the media crap needs to stop. Once the spotlight is off him, I'm sure he will work his way back into the team and play good football.

The clock is ticking, he deserves to be playing VFL, but the media scrutiny is not deserved. i hope he works his way back into the side and is given a definite role to work towards. If I was at the club, I'd get him to sit down with Richo. I remember he was dropped to the VFL late in his career, and almost won the brownlow the next year - starting on a wing. Vickery will come good, and he will work well with Jack if his role is defined as being a roaming CHF.

 

[Dragonss]

I think what we need is a CP3 or a Ricky Rubio. Beast passing ability.

 

[BC9_]

Tyrone Vickery is a poor fit for the Richmond side full stop (at this stage).

If he can find form and fix up his attitude, he will be okay. I hope.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

they're durant and westbrook vickery (westbrook) should know to be more of a 2nd string, he should do everything he can to allow jack (durant) to play his natural game and not get in the way

I know a Difford and Tillbrook


And in honour of Kenny Everitt

 

[tigs2010]

I think what we need is a CP3 or a Ricky Rubio. Beast passing ability.

Lids.

 

[Ralll]

At the end of 2011 TV had sticky hands and was marking most of what he got his hands to, Im not sure if the shoulders are a huge problem for him but he struggles to pull down anything these days.

 

[theflea]

A couple of seasons ago Jack & Vickery combined to be the highest scoring KPF duo in the comp so I think they are capable of working together very well.

What's changed? Vick's form and attitude for sure, but the big one for me, is the forward coach.

Danny Daly did an exceptional job, our forward line has been dysfunctional since the day Wilbur Williams took over. He has to go.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

This is who I thought was the culprit but didn't Lade say he was the fwds coach in a video just recently?

 

[theflea]

I think it comes down to having 3 195cm+ players just doesn't work or we aren't good enough just yet to make it work. TV slots into this program. With only having 2 really tall players gives Jack more rook to move but id ont think it means he must start from the goal square. He showed on that video he went from 15m out to the 50 about 7 or 8 times, so he still is getting quite high. Its all about the entries and fwd separation and the defensive capability of the team to run back for support.

 

[Harmichael]

All you dopey gen-y wigger wannabe *in' seppos far cough with ya gay arse ghettoball analogies.

 

[CHIMP MAGNET]

This is who I thought was the culprit but didn't Lade say he was the fwds coach in a video just recently?

Yeah apparently, one of the many hats Ladey now wears, Wilbur turned the forward line into a train wreck and it doesn't look like Lade is doing any better.

In 2011 when Daly was forward coach, Ty & Jack took more inside 50 marks and kicked more goals than any other combo in the comp, so the answer to the question 'Are Jack and Tyrone just a poor fit together' is a resounding no. The basketball analogies can GTFO. 2012 Ty was injured, and 2013 was the year of Wilbur. We need to get Ty back in form and get the 2011 set up back. Why they changed it in the first place, WTFK.

 

[tigs2010]

I think it comes down to having 3 195cm+ players just doesn't work or we aren't good enough just yet to make it work. TV slots into this program. With only having 2 really tall players gives Jack more rook to move but id ont think it means he must start from the goal square. He showed on that video he went from 15m out to the 50 about 7 or 8 times, so he still is getting quite high. Its all about the entries and fwd separation and the defensive capability of the team to run back for support.

I'd classify what he was doing as "playing from the square." Doesn't literally mean he has to put his feet in the square each time. Just means playing deep (I.e. inside 50 rather than up on on the wings) Those leading patterns where he sprints 15 turns to jog back and then quickly sprints back where he led the first time etc are where he's at his best and the defender can't stop him. When he pushes up to the wing with 40-50m leads the defender tends to be all over him and he's under the pump.

 

[Truetiger]

Ty Vickery is just garbage

When do we put the trash out

 

[theflea]

I'd classify what he was doing as "playing from the square." Doesn't literally mean he has to put his feet in the square each time. Just means playing deep (I.e. inside 50 rather than up on on the wings) Those leading patterns where he sprints 15 turns to jog back and then quickly sprints back where he led the first time etc are where he's at his best and the defender can't stop him. When he pushes up to the wing with 40-50m leads the defender tends to be all over him and he's under the pump.

If he is the higher fwd, then its most likely the player will run between both pockets near the 50 m line to try to get free. Unfortunately the coaches don't like that if it turned over.

 

[monstabud]

id like to see, who runs faster and has more of an engine!
vickery or penny.
i wonder if penny can take a grab.

 

[partycorolla]

If Dimma and co didn't fiddle with the structure over summer, I don't think the form issue with vickery may be as bad as it appears. If the coach taps you on the shoulder and tells you that the dual Coleman Medalist would play up the ground and be your decoy, it would be a huge responsibility for him, and also knowing that we are expected to play finals, that's even tougher.

In isolation, Vickery has had a bad start. In the games where he was the main target, the delivery was shocking. Now we have reverted back to a 2013 structure, this has left him totally confused and his body language reflects that. Quite simply, he has zero confidence. The only way back is to work hard and earn promotion. I agree with him being dropped, but the media crap needs to stop. Once the spotlight is off him, I'm sure he will work his way back into the team and play good football.

The clock is ticking, he deserves to be playing VFL, but the media scrutiny is not deserved. i hope he works his way back into the side and is given a definite role to work towards. If I was at the club, I'd get him to sit down with Richo. I remember he was dropped to the VFL late in his career, and almost won the brownlow the next year - starting on a wing. Vickery will come good, and he will work well with Jack if his role is defined as being a roaming CHF.

Great post. Too many people who simply can't distinguish between poor form and career over/no ability. The media are the ones that have started all this panic-mongering but supporters have picked it up and run with it. Hard work will fix it for TV, he has ability, he needs to combine it with hard work and then the confidence will come back.

Travis Cloke had hardly kicked a goal for the season up until the Nth game but he kept presenting and dominated the game in the first half. It will turn, just everybody needs to chill a little bit and not get swept up in the media hysteria.