Are South African racial quotas hurting the game?

[Scotland]

I don't think people appreciate the effects positive discrimination measures actually have.

People are rarely sympathetic to white South Africans. 'Oh you can't get a job with your private school education over the blacks you oppressed for decades? Poor baby...'

The reason they leave is because their standard of living is eroding over time. I don't think I need to go into the how and why of that. It's mostly the whites that leave, but they are far from the only ones who want to - but it's a lot easier to get out when you're white, tertiary educated, English speaking etc. than not. Even pretending racial tensions don't exist, South Africa is hardly a first world nation. GDP per capita is about 1/10th of what it is here, a large portion of the population live in poverty, crime rates are high... and you know, it's in Africa.

Whites leaving South Africa is a poor overall outcome for South Africa.

 

[krisholio14]

Which is why there is no such thing as positive discrimination.

 

[Scotland]

Which is why there is no such thing as positive discrimination.

Plenty believe quotas are the way forward for South African cricket.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

I'm sure whites miss out on job opportunities via affirmative action. I'm also sure there's many whites who aren't much chop at job interviews and are competing against a shitload more candidates than their parents and grandparents did. Think the university graduate rate now is 50% black (let me guess, some of you think black scholarships are racist?).

 

[krisholio14]

I'm sure whites miss out on job opportunities via affirmative action. I'm also sure there's many whites who aren't much chop at job interviews and are competing against a shitload more candidates than their parents and grandparents did. Think the university graduate rate now is 50% black (let me guess, some of you think black scholarships are racist?).

Affirmative action doesn't work either.

Scholarships are fine because they usually aren't taking a place away from anyone else.

 

[The_Reaper]

Affirmative action doesn't work either.

Scholarships are fine because they usually aren't taking a place away from anyone else.

Unless your in Malaysia lol

 

[the_interloper]

I'm sure whites miss out on job opportunities via affirmative action. I'm also sure there's many whites who aren't much chop at job interviews and are competing against a shitload more candidates than their parents and grandparents did. Think the university graduate rate now is 50% black (let me guess, some of you think black scholarships are racist?).

Whether you agree with them or not, surely you'd have to agree that by the very definition it is racist?

 

[Gough]

The legacy of Apartheid has meant this sort of thing is unavoidable, in time they will be phased out, but until then they are a necessary part of modern South Africa.

 

[Scotland]

It will make sense to phase out the quotas when the talent pool of whites becomes so shallow (due to mass migration) that they stop getting picked.

Give it another decade or two and it will be Zimbabwe Mk II if the wrong paths are traveled down.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Whether you agree with them or not, surely you'd have to agree that by the very definition it is racist?

Racism is the opression of a race of people because you believe your own/another race is superior.

That is not what's happening here. So no, by definition it is not racist. By that logic male and female bathrooms are sexist.

 

[Scotland]

The definition of racism is fluid and a qualifier of superiority is a bit convenient.

Picking players based on race is a racially discriminatory policy. If people really want to get hung up on the difference between racial discrimination and racism then good luck to them I guess.

As far as the spectrum of racism really goes, having a policy of only picking whites to play other whites is more racist than having a policy of picking blacks ahead of better credentialled whites which is more racist than picking the best available regardless of colour...

 

[Gough]

It will make sense to phase out the quotas when the talent pool of whites becomes so shallow (due to mass migration) that they stop getting picked.

Give it another decade or two and it will be Zimbabwe Mk II if the wrong paths are traveled down.

The comparison is unfair. Zimbabwe had a rural economy without much else, and Mugabe's spectacularly stupid land seizures f***ed that. South Africa has riches aside from the land, and the years of sanctions, ironically, left them better equipped to stand on their own two feet than Zim ever was.

 

[the_interloper]

Racism is the opression of a race of people because you believe your own/another race is superior.

That is not what's happening here. So no, by definition it is not racist. By that logic male and female bathrooms are sexist.

The definition of racism is fluid and a qualifier of superiority is a bit convenient.

Picking players based on race is a racially discriminatory policy. If people really want to get hung up on the difference between racial discrimination and racism then good luck to them I guess.

As far as the spectrum of racism really goes, having a policy of only picking whites to play other whites is more racist than having a policy of picking blacks ahead of better credentialled whites which is more racist than picking the best available regardless of colour...

Scotland put it better than I probably could have so I'll just leave that there. Maybe "racially discriminatory" is a better term for it but people use the term racist as a catch all for anything these days it seems.

I should add that in some ways I agree with the quota system, young black kids probably find it easier to aspire to playing cricket for SA if they can see other black players playing. But then again if they really aren't up scratch it probably does more harm than good.

 

[Gough]

Perhaps if we'd shown the same sort of strength of feeling against Apartheid as we are seeing here, this thread might not have even necessary.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Perhaps if we'd shown the same sort of strength of feeling against Apartheid as we are seeing here, this thread might not have even necessary.

Many in this thread think reconciliation means white people saying "We're sorry" then not having to change or give up anything. Even the minor, goodwill policy of a black in the cricket team means Zimbabwe 2 coming.

Gives a bit of an insight into how some white Australians despise Aboriginals to be honest.

 

[carnthemlions]

Many in this thread think reconciliation means white people saying "We're sorry" then not having to change or give up anything. Even the minor, goodwill policy of a black in the cricket team means Zimbabwe 2 coming.

Gives a bit of an insight into how some white Australians despise Aboriginals to be honest.

Let's remember that the South Africans did get a few ideas from us...

It will make sense to phase out the quotas when the talent pool of whites becomes so shallow (due to mass migration) that they stop getting picked.

Give it another decade or two and it will be Zimbabwe Mk II if the wrong paths are traveled down.

"Zimbabwe 2.0" For *'s sake, are people really this ignorant? * me, I think it's fairly obvious that SA and Zimbabwe are very different cases. Not to mention the fact that SA is relatively modern in parts at least, while Zimbabwe is an absolute trainwreck. I was once told (not so long ago) that younger people working in development there probably won't see much progress in their lifetimes.

 

[Mancey]

Sometimes it pays to read the whole wikipedia article when attempting to frame your argument

Racism is the opression of a race of people because you believe your own/another race is superior.

Wiki Quote: Racism is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

"

Racism can also lead to racial bias and employment discrimination."

The UN does not define "racism"; however, it does define "racial discrimination": According to the United Nations International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life

The UN disagrees with you

If people are being offered a position where race is being rated higher than ability, its pretty hard to argue that there isn't at least a modicum of discrimination occurring.

 

[JackOutback]

Sometimes it pays to read the whole wikipedia article when attempting to frame your argument




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

"


The UN disagrees with you

If people are being offered a position where race is being rated higher than ability, its pretty hard to argue that there isn't at least a modicum of discrimination occurring.

Except the policies aren't designed to impair the recognition, impairment or exercise of human rights and fundamental freedoms; they are designed to restore them. Unless you are going to claim blacks are already in an equal footing with whites in South Africa.

 

[Mancey]

I am not sure you can restore fundamental freedoms by enacting what is essentially an exclusionist policy. But that is only my opinion

 

[Scotland]

I am not sure you can restore fundamental freedoms by enacting what is essentially an exclusionist policy. But that is only my opinion

Exclusion of blacks is sanctionable. Exclusion of whites is progress. Funny old world we live in.

There are probably people ITT who think South Africa would be better off if all the whites upped and left.

 

[Gough]

By comparing the current quota system to Apartheid you're demonstrating a serious lack of understanding of what Apartheid was actually like.

 

[carnthemlions]

Exclusion of blacks is sanctionable. Exclusion of whites is progress. Funny old world we live in.

There are probably people ITT who think South Africa would be better off if all the whites upped and left.

Nice of you not to attempt to back up your laughable Zimbabwean comparison.

 

[The Speaker]

Racism, or racialism as it used to be known and is a word less fraught with stigma, is simply a form of discriminating between people based on the colour of their skin. The purpose of that discrimination does not change the race-based nature of the discrimination.

 

[strewthcobber]

Racism, or racialism as it used to be known and is a word less fraught with stigma, is simply a form of discriminating between people based on the colour of their skin. The purpose of that discrimination does not change the race-based nature of the discrimination.

The bit your missing is that rasicm must be based on the belief that one race is superior to another.

Which changes the whole dynamic of these quota based policies.....

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

 

[Blue1980]

I worked briefly with a bunch of Saffers in London in 2004. Every one of them, to a man, told of how they had to leave because only blacks could get hired. Saw through it pretty quickly.

Racist arseholes, too.

I second the racist a-hole part, guy I knew thought inter racial couples were morally wrong. Things that I hadn't even contemplated being an issue