ASADA Chiefs face senate estimates committee.

[sauce_head]

But that was the only difference in terms of the case itself. Its not as if WADA did what ASADA couldn't do in 3 years, as has been suggested.

The big difference was the 'strands in the cable' approach and the level of proof required.

WADA would have lost at the AFL tribunal too.

even lance Armstrong would have gotten off at the AFL assembled tribunal.

 

[Vindicater]

Lots of people quoted me so just going to answer here and hope they read it.

I am not an Essendon supporter. I believe the right outcome has occurred (As I have said in previous posts) and I believe the AFL needs to stick with the WADA code.

Having said that, let me get this straight.

Up until WADA actually became apart of this ASADA ha continually allowed the AFL and Essendon to undermine them and dictate the speed with which things happened. WADA become involved and suddenly things start to move and we see an outcome (well it should be an outcome but now the players are wrongfully appealing on technicality)

That is the equivalent of a worker who is given a responsibility ******* it up and having to have the boss come in over the top to sort it out.

That is incompetence.

ASADA is needed because WADA cannot deal with all the worlds little problems. (and this is a little problem to the rest of the world). So as I said in my original post, it needs to go or at the vewry least needs a complete and utter overhaul to how it operates.

 

[Vindicater]

But that was the only difference in terms of the case itself. Its not as if WADA did what ASADA couldn't do in 3 years, as has been suggested.

The big difference was the 'strands in the cable' approach and the level of proof required.

WADA would have lost at the AFL tribunal too.

WADA would never have let it get to an AFL tribunal.

 

[Cronos]

WADA would never have let it get to an AFL tribunal.

So you think they should have skipped steps in the process? Great way to have any decision thrown out in appeal.

 

[madmug]

WADA would never have let it get to an AFL tribunal.

When you see how FIFA 'self' monitored its own activities, can you blame WADA.?

One could argue they really care about the game more than the AFL do. The AFL are more self interested in themselves than the game & its real health.

You know, the things we care about.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

WADA would never have let it get to an AFL tribunal.

Yes, they would have. It wasn't a choice. WADA signed off on the AFL Code which ensured it went, in the first instance, to the AFL Tribunal.

 

[Just interested]

But that was the only difference in terms of the case itself. Its not as if WADA did what ASADA couldn't do in 3 years, as has been suggested.

The big difference was the 'strands in the cable' approach and the level of proof required.

WADA would have lost at the AFL tribunal too.

Yep, yep and Howman:

"Quite simply, if the BALCO cases had been decided under the principles followed by the AFL tribunal, none of the BALCO people would have been sanctioned," Howman said

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/wada-likens-essendon-to-balco-case-20151127-gl9uxt.html#ixzz40137lPDC

And, even though the US hadn't signed up to WADA, they didn't pull up at the sanctioning of athletes.

"Technically speaking, BALCO is extinct, but Victor Conte is a free man and still running a business called "Scientific Nutrition for Advanced Conditioning" or "SNAC." After serving a four-month prison sentence prior to pleading guilty in 2005, he no longer sells illegal steroids, but various supplements and vitamins. Patrick Arnold and Greg Anderson each served a three-month jail sentence after pleading guilty with Anderson serving an additional three-month house arrest sentence. Recently Anderson was incarcerated again after being found in contempt of court for refusing to testify about Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield’s use of banned steroids.[13]BALCO is not completely dead however; on the SNAC website, Conte has BALCO apparel for sale."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BALCO_scandal

They used the doping findings to get some of the principals into the criminal justice system.

I kinda figured that's what the Aperio report was about. Still, if every agency, from Customs, the TGA and the AFP, through to the DHHS in Vic, and the Vicpol "Sports Integrity Unit" (which Baillieu announced in response to Aperio, a coupla of days after Aperio was released because, you know, sport is so damn important in Victoria), all manage to sit on their hands for 3 years, and never bother to even knock on any E'dope door, thereby leaving it all to ASADA, and then WADA, and no-one seems to wonder why, why would anyone dare to think the real crooks might pay a price?

 

[Just interested]

Lots of people quoted me so just going to answer here and hope they read it.

I am not an Essendon supporter. I believe the right outcome has occurred (As I have said in previous posts) and I believe the AFL needs to stick with the WADA code.

Having said that, let me get this straight.

Up until WADA actually became apart of this ASADA ha continually allowed the AFL and Essendon to undermine them and dictate the speed with which things happened. WADA become involved and suddenly things start to move and we see an outcome (well it should be an outcome but now the players are wrongfully appealing on technicality)

That is the equivalent of a worker who is given a responsibility ******* it up and having to have the boss come in over the top to sort it out.

That is incompetence.

ASADA is needed because WADA cannot deal with all the worlds little problems. (and this is a little problem to the rest of the world). So as I said in my original post, it needs to go or at the vewry least needs a complete and utter overhaul to how it operates.

Responsibility goes a bit beyond ASADA.

Example - Subpoena powers - https://www.asada.gov.au/news/media-statement-victorian-supreme-court-subpoena-ruling

Example - "ii. The Australian government decided, for reasons it considered appropriate, to appoint a retired judge (Downes) to review the ASADA files. It took some months for Downes to complete his task in early April 2014."

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2014-09/wada-statement-on-nrl-sanctions

Example - Andrushka's affidavit of her meeting notes in the Middleton heard case, where she noted people from Ministers' offices trying to wrap it all up pronto, via agreement, and all sorts of tawdry wheeling and dealing.

Example - John Wiley, the head of the Australian Sports Commission, inserting himself into proceedings, using connections to various people at the AFL and the EFC, via business dealings (without even acknowledging the conflicts of interest inherent from those connections, and the ASC having oversight of ASADA), thereby usurping what limited powers ASADA had, and similarly trying to 'fix' it so everyone could walk away.

ASADA cannot be made to carry the can on their own.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lots of people quoted me so just going to answer here and hope they read it.

I am not an Essendon supporter. I believe the right outcome has occurred (As I have said in previous posts) and I believe the AFL needs to stick with the WADA code.

Having said that, let me get this straight.

Up until WADA actually became apart of this ASADA ha continually allowed the AFL and Essendon to undermine them and dictate the speed with which things happened. WADA become involved and suddenly things start to move and we see an outcome (well it should be an outcome but now the players are wrongfully appealing on technicality)

That is the equivalent of a worker who is given a responsibility ******* it up and having to have the boss come in over the top to sort it out.

That is incompetence.

ASADA is needed because WADA cannot deal with all the worlds little problems. (and this is a little problem to the rest of the world). So as I said in my original post, it needs to go or at the vewry least needs a complete and utter overhaul to how it operates.

Personally, I feel ASADA is fine....now.

However, upon the initial investigation taking place, Andruska simply wasn't up to the job, and I have read elsewhere, from someone claiming to know a lot more, that she was only ever placed as the head of ASADA in the belief that she'd not have a great deal to do.

From what we have seen, and know, I think that it's quite obvious she wasn't really up to it.

McDevitt on the other hand, is a different story.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Its an alleged error or law they are appealing but its still a procedural issue. They cannot appeal the decision of CAS

I was surprised they didn't attempt to appeal on the grounds of not getting a fair hearing, hence not all players getting to put all their arguments forward individually. Not that I believe that personally as as a judge dissent on a few players, meaning individual players circumstances were taken into account, plus players were allowed to put forward written submissions, which, I think, they did, and they all agreed to go as a group. Just thinking though it would've been a better grounds for appeal than whether the CAS case could be heard de novo, where they have virtually no hope. At least on the former, on the rare chance the SFT annulled it and sent it back to the CAS for review, they could re-argue their case for a not guilty verdict rather than a technicality.

The current grounds for appeal are hopeless and even on the rare chance of a win, won't really absolve them from guilt.

 

[Percel]

even lance Armstrong would have gotten off at the AFL assembled tribunal.

he would have also got a three year trip to France wagga wagga

 

[ThirtyFive]

he would have also got a three year trip to France wagga wagga

... no, Mike Rann gave him (Armstrong) a three year trip to the Tour Down Under in Adelaide, instead. And at S.A taxpayer's expense...go figure! I guess that's a bit like Wagga Wagga.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Senator John Madigan has requested a copy of the confidential ACC report for the hearings with ASADA.
Hope when he questions Mcdevitt he gets a bit excited and a loaded question gives us some juicy tid bits of info.
Mcdevitt reckons he is ready and I do get the impression he thinks he has a solid grasp of what went down at Essendon and is relishing being questioned in a public domain by the senate.


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...nate-estimates-committee-20160211-gmrtk6.html

 

[gutsroy]

ASADA did a good job under difficult circumstances with the investigation (resources, interference, obfuscation, media manipulation etc.) but there were flaws others have touched on. Similarly in prosecuting the case (generally good but issues with key witness statements, links in a chain approach etc.).

Not sure what the best vehicle for it is, but review and reform of the process (and / or more adequate resourcing) seem reasonable aims to pursue.

Can't remember who coined the 'Dennis Denuto' moniker for ASADA's legal counsel, but cable strands vs chain links did remind me at least of the Castle:

Darryl (ASADA): But Dennis tested it.
Laurie (Richard Young): I think we could test it better.

 

[gutsroy]

So many different ways to caption that:

'Mr McDevitt, how many quarters are there in a game of football?'
'On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate the Tracy Holmes / James Hird interview?'
'How many top-up players do you recommend the Bombers be allowed to pick up, Mr McDevitt?'

etc.

 

[Slartibartfast]

How many kilos of drugs do you think Essendon took?

 

[sataris]

So many different ways to caption that:

'Mr McDevitt, how many quarters are there in a game of football?'
'On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate the Tracy Holmes / James Hird interview?'
'How many top-up players do you recommend the Bombers be allowed to pick up, Mr McDevitt?'

etc.

How many AFL integrity officers does it take to sweep an issue under the rug?

 

[Percel]

So many different ways to caption that:

'Mr McDevitt, how many quarters are there in a game of football?'
'On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate the Tracy Holmes / James Hird interview?'
'How many top-up players do you recommend the Bombers be allowed to pick up, Mr McDevitt?'

etc.

Out of ten, how do you rate Gary's love for Mrs Brownless?

 

[gavaniacono]

James before medication?

Senator John Madigan has requested a copy of the confidential ACC report for the hearings with ASADA.
Hope when he questions Mcdevitt he gets a bit excited and a loaded question gives us some juicy tid bits of info.
Mcdevitt reckons he is ready and I do get the impression he thinks he has a solid grasp of what went down at Essendon and is relishing being questioned in a public domain by the senate.


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...nate-estimates-committee-20160211-gmrtk6.html

pollies versus (ex) police. Jesus! It's like a Carlton Collingwood grand final. Hope they both lose. And cause damage to each other along the way.

 

[pablo668]

he would have also got a three year trip to France wagga wagga

Too soon?

 

[gutsroy]

Out of ten, how do you rate Gary's love for Mrs Brownless?

How many goes do you think Spike McVeigh would need to pronounce Hexarelin correctly, Mr McDevitt?

 

[jenny61_99]

No, they considers new evidence in terms of molecular weight (as another poster said) and further interviews. It's not the same case. The clue is de novo (if I have spelt that correctly).

It was essentially exactly the same evidence, put forward using a different approach. There were a couple of bits of additional information, but overall it was essentially the same.

 

[ODNBlue]

Out of ten, how do you rate Gary's love for Mrs Brownless?

Some suggestion it might have been BB's daughter...

 

[chelseacarlton]

He was fearful of the Essendon supporters that showed up in the public viewing area.


They got an early warning Benny did a runner though.

I'm sure they were your best and brightest yeh?.

 

[sosos]

So many different ways to caption that:

'Mr McDevitt, how many quarters are there in a game of football?'
'On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate the Tracy Holmes / James Hird interview?'
'How many top-up players do you recommend the Bombers be allowed to pick up, Mr McDevitt?'

etc.

Just how many Mexicos are there?