No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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60sbomber said:
If you accept that the stuff imported from China was TB4 and Charter obtained it at Dank's request, how does it follow that players would be banned?
It could have been for Dank's non EFC business. It could have been destroyed by exposure to light, as Dank claimed. Lots of "could haves", but no known "definites".
There was only a small amount imported in this known shipment. If the players' consent forms and interview evidence is to be used against them, then you would need to verify the source of a lot more TB4 than this. If there is no such evidence, you are left with an unknown source of supply for the lion's share of the ASADA claimed TB4, or defence claimed Thymomodulin. Both equally unknown, and equally possible. There is no "comfortable satisfaction" in the ASADA claim that a large amount of TB4 from unknown sources was used, in the same way that there is no comfortable satisfaction in the defence claim that a large amount of Thymomodulin from unknown sources was used. Neither can be established.
But.....
THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR THE PLAYERS TO "PROVE" THYMOMODULIN USE, OR WHERE IT CAME FROM.
THERE IS A REQUIREMENT FOR ASADA TO "PROVE" TB4 USE AND WHERE IT CAME FROM.

If ASADA can establish that the imported amount from China was TB4, and somehow convince the tribunal that it was for Essendon players, and that it got to Essendon, and was used on players (a big gap in the story, where ASADA seem to be relying on the tribunal accepting their convenient guess that this is what happened), then they have to decide which players got the small amount they can verify.

It is not sufficient to have the tribunal fill gaping holes in the trail with assumptions, where there is no evidence (eg the lion's share of the amount of the claimed TB4).

At least, that is what I would interpret as a reasonable application of the burden of proof that is "comfortable satisfaction".

We don't have to "prove" thymomodulin use and source etc for the charges to fail.
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And further If I was to say "that TB4 that dank had, I bought off him from cash i got from a garage sale I had" What would ADADA'S case be then?
My point is the need documentation that leads to the players body
 
Doss said:
Exactly. That's where my frustration with him stems from.

This rope a rope, wink wink, one day I'll tell the truth act helps no one but himself. It leaves the players in limbo.
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He's always said if players get suspended he'll come out and clear them, that was for both Essendon and Cronulla.

Can someone please remind me how that worked out for the Cronulla players?
 
Pweter said:
He's always said if players get suspended he'll come out and clear them, that was for both Essendon and Cronulla.

Can someone please remind me how that worked out for the Cronulla players?
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If he's leaving it until suspensions are handed down, he's leaving it too late. It doesn't help the players and just extends the debacle for them.

There's something about the "I'll clear them if they're suspended" line that sounds just a little too convenient for mine. I don't buy it.
 

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Dank's public stance has always been, in effect, 'I'm going to help, but not right now'.

A bit like 'I want to lose weight, but not yet', 'I want to stop drinking, but now isn't the time', 'I'm going to quit smoking, but not just yet', etc.
 
Doss said:
If he's leaving it until suspensions are handed down, he's leaving it too late. It doesn't help the players and just extends the debacle for them.

There's something about the "I'll clear them if they're suspended" line that sounds just a little too convenient for mine. I don't buy it.
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If - for the sake of argument - you accept that Dank means what he says, then it implies that helping / clearing the players would impose a significant cost for Dank, which is why he's leaving it until the very end of the process in the hope that he won't have to do it.

What could the significant cost for Dank be ? In the absence of a better explanation provided by Dank, I subscribe to the theory that the cost would be the exposure of something he doesn't want exposed.
 
cymarak said:
Dank's public stance has always been, in effect, 'I'm going to help, but not right now'.

A bit like 'I want to lose weight, but not yet', 'I want to stop drinking, but now isn't the time', 'I'm going to quit smoking, but not just yet', etc.
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I'm starting my diet on monday.
 

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BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! said:
I don't get it

If the club and players were intent on using banned substances to cheat they wouldn't make them sign forms that's just asking to incriminate yourself.
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I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting that the club or the players intended to cheat.

What's being suggested is that either Dank was up to no good - and knowingly supplied the players with banned drugs - or the players were supplied with banned drugs due to negligence / recklessness (the drugs not being realised as being banned until too late).
 
cymarak said:
I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting that the club or the players intended to cheat.

What's being suggested is that either Dank was up to no good - and knowingly supplied the players with banned drugs - or the players were supplied with banned drugs due to negligence / recklessness (the drugs not being realised as being banned until too late).
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Then players shouldn't cop it imo it should be Dank and who ever else was working with him that's needs to be nailed to the wall the players are victims in this.
 
BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! said:
I don't get it

If the club and players were intent on using banned substances to cheat they wouldn't make them sign forms that's just asking to incriminate yourself.
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As Dank explained to Jobe, there's good Thymosin and bad Thymosin.

If Dank then ****ed the players by supplying bad Thymosin, then there is nothing that the club/players can actually do except to take their wack.

It sucks and will take a long time to recover- but is exactly the reason that the governance issues we had over 2012 were such a (potential) big deal*.

*ignoring the fact that the majority of other clubs shared in said governance issues
 
Walesy said:
As Dank explained to Jobe, there's good Thymosin and bad Thymosin.

If Dank then ****** the players by supplying bad Thymosin, then there is nothing that the club/players can actually do except to take their wack.

It sucks and will take a long time to recover- but is exactly the reason that the governance issues we had over 2012 were such a (potential) big deal*.

*ignoring the fact that the majority of other clubs shared in said governance issues
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It what annoys me the most

It was reported that at least 11 other clubs had similar governance issues to Essendon why aren't those clubs getting smashed from pillar to post you only have to look at the txt messages between Dr Bates and Dank.
 
Walesy said:
As Dank explained to Jobe, there's good Thymosin and bad Thymosin.

If Dank then ****** the players by supplying bad Thymosin, then there is nothing that the club/players can actually do except to take their wack.

It sucks and will take a long time to recover- but is exactly the reason that the governance issues we had over 2012 were such a (potential) big deal*.

*ignoring the fact that the majority of other clubs shared in said governance issues
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I agree with you but will raise this point for discussions sake.

Point to me a governance procdure or process that can be implemented that would stop someone if they chose to from injecting a player with a banned drug.
 
cymarak said:
If - for the sake of argument - you accept that Dank means what he says, then it implies that helping / clearing the players would impose a significant cost for Dank, which is why he's leaving it until the very end of the process in the hope that he won't have to do it.

What could the significant cost for Dank be ? In the absence of a better explanation provided by Dank, I subscribe to the theory that the cost would be the exposure of something he doesn't want exposed.
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Yup. The Dank Hail Mary is "Psych! Medicare fraud!" or "Psych! Cooking the books for free TB4 for the clinic!". I'm not full-bottle on what the evidence (or lack thereof) is for either of those possibilities, I'm not counting on them. And doubly not counting on Dank following through even if one of them is true.
 
Mercurial89 said:
I agree with you but will raise this point for discussions sake.

Point to me a governance procdure or process that can be implemented that would stop someone if they chose to from injecting a player with a banned drug.
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Yeah, this whole thing would be a lot easier to stomach if there had been some specifics AFL guidelines already in place for us to have ignored.
 
BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! said:
Then players shouldn't cop it imo it should be Dank and who ever else was working with him that's needs to be nailed to the wall
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Unfortunately, the wise minds at AFL HQ brought in rules that say even if the players were duped, they're still guilty.

Those wise minds have avoided much in the way of criticism so far, which surprises me.
 
BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! said:
It what annoys me the most

It was reported that at least 11 other clubs had similar governance issues to Essendon why aren't those clubs getting smashed from pillar to post you only have to look at the txt messages between Dr Bates and Dank.
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Agreed. But then, other clubs not being chased down doesn't make what we did right. (It just makes their supporters who blindly criticise hypocrites)

Mercurial89 said:
I agree with you but will raise this point for discussions sake.

Point to me a governance procdure or process that can be implemented that would stop someone if they chose to from injecting a player with a banned drug.
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Dank: Dr. Reid, here is the Thymosis compound that we will be injecting into our players, along with the certification from that mob that I was supposed to get to test it but it "fried from clear vials on the way".

As you can see, this documentation clearly states that the substance that I'm about to administer to these players matches what they consented to.

Reid: Cheers bigears. Get it into 'em!
 
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