ASADA Provisional Sentences - How do they work?

[Defacto]

does anyone know how the provisional sentences work?

for instance i am confused how in three cases there have been different conditions on the provisional sentence:
- VFL - Matt Clark : told by ASADA under his provisional sentence he could not train with his VFL club. so he declined the option of a provisional sentence
- AFL - St Kilda - Saad : accepted a provisional sentence and was told that he could train with the club, but could not be involved on game day be it AFL or VFL
- AFL - Essendon : accepted a provisional sentence and was told they could compete in the international rules and NAB Cup

so is the provisional sentence conditions based on the strength of the evidence or the severity alleged breach? is each case of a provisional sentenced decided on its own circumstances?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

does anyone know how the provisional sentences work?

for instance i am confused how in three cases there have been different conditions on the provisional sentence:
- VFL - Matt Clark : told by ASADA under his provisional sentence he could not train with his VFL club. so he declined the option of a provisional sentence
- AFL - St Kilda - Saad : accepted a provisional sentence and was told that he could train with the club, but could not be involved on game day be it AFL or VFL
- AFL - Essendon : accepted a provisional sentence and was told they could compete in the international rules and NAB Cup

so is the provisional sentence conditions based on the strength of the evidence or the severity alleged breach? is each case of a provisional sentenced decided on its own circumstances?

Good questions…

The AFL look after two things. Revenue and perception of their brand. Sometimes it comes down to a balance of which one is more important to them. Only Gill and co. would know where the balance lies in this case.

 

[Defacto]

Good questions…

The AFL look after two things. Revenue and perception of their brand. Sometimes it comes down to a balance of which one is more important to them. Only Gill and co. would know where the balance lies in this case.

so does that mean the VFL and AFL decided what the players involvement could be under a self imposed provisional ban?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

so does that mean the VFL and AFL decided what the players involvement could be under a self imposed provisional ban?

The AFL (and thus VFL as it is very dependent on the AFL) decides what can be done whilst under a provisional ban. I would assume in this case they would also liaise with ASADA and find out the consequences for players if they are suspended i.e. when their bans could start and how backdating bans would be affected. The AFL hand out the penalties too, not ASADA, but they would want to keep everyone involved satisfied that some sort of justice has been served so as to avoid ASADA/WADA appealing the sentence.

 

[jenny61_99]

14.7 Commencement of Ineligibility Period

Except as provided below, the period of Ineligibility shall start on the date of the hearing decision providing for Ineligibility or, if the hearing is waived, on the date Ineligibility is accepted or otherwise imposed. Any period of Provisional Suspension (whether imposed or voluntarily accepted) shall be credited against the total period of Ineligibility imposed.

Delays Not Attributable to the Athlete or other Person

Where there have been substantial delays in the hearing process or other aspects of Doping Control not attributable to the Player or other Person, the Tribunal determining the sanction may start the period of Ineligibility at an earlier date commencing as early as the date of Sample collection or the date on which another Anti Doping Rule Violation last occurred.

Timely Admission

Where the Player or other Person promptly (which, in all events, for a Player means before the Player competes again) admits the Anti Doping Rule Violation after being confronted with the Anti Doping Rule Violation by ASADA, the period of Ineligibility may start as early as the date of Sample collection or the date on which another Anti Doping Rule Violation last occurred. In each case, however, where this Clause is applied, the Player or other Person shall serve at least one- half of the period of Ineligibility going forward from the date the Player or other Person accepted the imposition of a sanction, the date of a hearing decision imposing a sanction, or the date the sanction is otherwise imposed.28

If a Provisional Suspension is imposed and respected by the Player, then the Player shall receive a credit for such period of Provisional Suspension against any period of Ineligibility which may ultimately be imposed.

If an Player voluntarily accepts a Provisional Suspension in writing from the AFL and thereafter refrains from competing, the Player shall receive a credit for such period of voluntary Provisional Suspension against any period of Ineligibility which may ultimately be imposed. A copy of the Player’s voluntary acceptance of a Provisional Suspension shall be provided promptly to each party entitled to receive notice of a potential Anti Doping Rule Violation under the Code.29

No credit against a period of Ineligibility shall be given for any time period before the effective date of the Provisional Suspension or voluntary Provisional Suspension regardless of whether the Player elected not to compete or was suspended by his team.

 

[Defacto]

14.7 Commencement of Ineligibility Period

Except as provided below, the period of Ineligibility shall start on the date of the hearing decision providing for Ineligibility or, if the hearing is waived, on the date Ineligibility is accepted or otherwise imposed. Any period of Provisional Suspension (whether imposed or voluntarily accepted) shall be credited against the total period of Ineligibility imposed.

Delays Not Attributable to the Athlete or other Person

Where there have been substantial delays in the hearing process or other aspects of Doping Control not attributable to the Player or other Person, the Tribunal determining the sanction may start the period of Ineligibility at an earlier date commencing as early as the date of Sample collection or the date on which another Anti Doping Rule Violation last occurred.

Timely Admission

Where the Player or other Person promptly (which, in all events, for a Player means before the Player competes again) admits the Anti Doping Rule Violation after being confronted with the Anti Doping Rule Violation by ASADA, the period of Ineligibility may start as early as the date of Sample collection or the date on which another Anti Doping Rule Violation last occurred. In each case, however, where this Clause is applied, the Player or other Person shall serve at least one- half of the period of Ineligibility going forward from the date the Player or other Person accepted the imposition of a sanction, the date of a hearing decision imposing a sanction, or the date the sanction is otherwise imposed.28

If a Provisional Suspension is imposed and respected by the Player, then the Player shall receive a credit for such period of Provisional Suspension against any period of Ineligibility which may ultimately be imposed.

If an Player voluntarily accepts a Provisional Suspension in writing from the AFL and thereafter refrains from competing, the Player shall receive a credit for such period of voluntary Provisional Suspension against any period of Ineligibility which may ultimately be imposed. A copy of the Player’s voluntary acceptance of a Provisional Suspension shall be provided promptly to each party entitled to receive notice of a potential Anti Doping Rule Violation under the Code.29

No credit against a period of Ineligibility shall be given for any time period before the effective date of the Provisional Suspension or voluntary Provisional Suspension regardless of whether the Player elected not to compete or was suspended by his team.

can you sum it up in plain english for me mate?

 

[Spongebob]

can you sum it up in plain english for me mate?

Provisional suspensions are not automatic, except in cases like positives to steroids at a competition.

Player is charged and can says, I'll take a provisional until all is over.

Sport organisation can say, we want to stand you down until this is over, but does not have to.

If an athlete refrains from playing under a provisional, then any later ban in backdated.

The sport organisation can set conditions, like permitted to train, or play in the international exhibition not really a sport thing.

 

[Quokka]

It still doesn't outline what are the conditions of the provisional suspension.

But if they are allowed to train and the guys playing in the NTFL have waived their chance at a provisional suspension then all the AFL has really done so far is allowed two players to play in a glorified exhibition match that's not even in the same sport.

Edit: Yeah, what sponge said

 

[Defacto]

Provisional suspensions are not automatic, except in cases like positives to steroids at a competition.

Player is charged and can says, I'll take a provisional until all is over.

Sport organisation can say, we want to stand you down until this is over, but does not have to.

If an athlete refrains from playing under a provisional, then any later ban in backdated.

The sport organisation can set conditions, like permitted to train, or play in the international exhibition not really a sport thing.

great job mate!

 

[not_working]

Ok, but do the provisionals have an ON/OFF switch, ie can the players/AFL lift the provisional bans for a a while (say when games are on), not count these days, but still credit all the other days before/after until tribunal decision?

 

[compact72]

does anyone know how the provisional sentences work?

for instance i am confused how in three cases there have been different conditions on the provisional sentence:
- VFL - Matt Clark : told by ASADA under his provisional sentence he could not train with his VFL club. so he declined the option of a provisional sentence
- AFL - St Kilda - Saad : accepted a provisional sentence and was told that he could train with the club, but could not be involved on game day be it AFL or VFL
- AFL - Essendon : accepted a provisional sentence and was told they could compete in the international rules and NAB Cup

so is the provisional sentence conditions based on the strength of the evidence or the severity alleged breach? is each case of a provisional sentenced decided on its own circumstances?

I know hey, AFL must be after Essendon.

They don't understand how lucky they have been, and how soft they have been treated

 

[Baltimore Jack]

can you sum it up in plain english for me mate?

What was difficult to understand in what Jenny posted?

 

[Defacto]

What was difficult to understand in what Jenny posted?

Just cbf trying to decipher it/read through it

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Just cbf trying to decipher it/read through it

Ah ok, got it now. Gen Y?

 

[mxett]

I know hey, AFL must be after Essendon.

They don't understand how lucky they have been, and how soft they have been treated

assuming theyre guilty

 

[Defacto]

Ah ok, got it now. Gen Y?

Nah mate. baby boomer. Don't have time for anything that's not raping the younger generation of home ownership

 

[Mningasimisonda]

Provisional suspensions are not automatic, except in cases like positives to steroids at a competition.

Player is charged and can says, I'll take a provisional until all is over.

Sport organisation can say, we want to stand you down until this is over, but does not have to.

If an athlete refrains from playing under a provisional, then any later ban in backdated.

The sport organisation can set conditions, like permitted to train, or play in the international exhibition not really a sport thing.

So I'm guessing if it's still going by then no one involved would choose to play preseason just in case, but how far into the off season would it then backdate?

 

[Gigantor]

Chris Kaias‏@ChrisKaias
While any ban given by Tribunal would generally stand pending appeal, the Appeals Board *could* decide otherwise



"Such decisions shall remain in effect while under appeal unless CAS or the Appeals Board orders otherwise.

So the way I read it, if the players appeal to the Appeals Board, it appears to have the discretion to "order otherwise", i.e. to allow the players to continue playing pending the appeal.

 

[yaco55]

My understanding is that its up to the sporting body to determine any provisional suspension. I imagine this would difficult when comparing a Positive test and a Non Analytical Finding.

 

[jenny61_99]

My understanding is that its up to the sporting body to determine any provisional suspension. I imagine this would difficult when comparing a Positive test and a Non Analytical Finding.

Provisional suspensions occurred when the INs were issued. Exceptions were given to two players in the IR match and ex players playing in NT. If found guilty it will be interesting to see if they backdate to this point for all or adjust accordingly.

 

[andrewb]

Normally it is ASADA that determines the nature of a provisional suspension. Under the AFL code it is the AFL who determines the provisional suspension.

I wrote some time ago that essendon patched up its relationship with the afl (little hosting Fitzpatrick at the footy, holding talks with Gil, etc) because of this.

The federal court decision to allow infraction notices for 'possible use', triggering provisional suspension, in late 2013 was ridiculous. I would be livid if I was an Olympian provisionally banned by Asada for 'possible use'. Judge, jury and executioner - they can make a provisional suspension last as long as the process takes and there is no redress for the athlete.

It also fundamentally altered the way that asada managed its case against the NRL players- the threat of provisional suspension, combined with misleading evidence summaries, was used to push the players to take a deal that they regret in hindsight.

While the afl remains on the players' side they can afford to go through the tribunal process. What will be interesting is whether the afl lifts suspensions if this goes into the season. It's a cat and mouse game at the moment.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

The federal court decision to allow infraction notices for 'possible use', triggering provisional suspension, in late 2013 was ridiculous. I would be livid if I was an Olympian provisionally banned by Asada for 'possible use'. Judge, jury and executioner - they can make a provisional suspension last as long as the process takes and there is no redress for the athlete.

It also fundamentally altered the way that asada managed its case against the NRL players- the threat of provisional suspension, combined with misleading evidence summaries, was used to push the players to take a deal that they regret in hindsight.

While the afl remains on the players' side they can afford to go through the tribunal process. What will be interesting is whether the afl lifts suspensions if this goes into the season. It's a cat and mouse game at the moment.

So you're not a big fan of "Bail Refused" or the "Remand Jail" system then?

 

[andrewb]

So you're not a big fan of "Bail Refused" or the "Remand Jail" system then?

You can't place someone in custody for 'possibly' committing a crime, you actually have to charge them.

 

[onemancyclone]

My understanding is that its up to the sporting body to determine any provisional suspension. I imagine this would difficult when comparing a Positive test and a Non Analytical Finding.

You know what? Go for it. Let the players take the field when they have INs served. Don't come crying to us though when we let the players and Hird know how we feel about it on our side of the fence on match day.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

You can't place someone in custody for 'possibly' committing a crime, you actually have to charge them.

I agree with your sentiments above. I don't think they should be banned from playing whilst provisionally suspended. Having said that, I was of the understanding that they have been charged with taking TB4. That is why we are at the tribunal. To see if those charges can be proven to comfortable level of satisfaction and if so, the players will get some sort of suspension. Your general example of being charged of a crime still only means that you possibly have committed it. It is not till a court of law finds you guilty that you are said to have actually committed the crime.