ASADA's case against Essendon

[FuManchu]

an interesting read.

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ests-on-injection-regime-20141027-11cgku.html

Primarily it discusses the difference between the injection regime required for TB4 which is one injection a day (5 working days) for 10 weeks as opposed to one injection a week for 6 weeks for thymomodulin.

Essendon players admitted to the 5 injections per week.

No wonder Hird and Essendon tried to have the interviews thrown out.

 

[SunshineBoy]

an interesting read.

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ests-on-injection-regime-20141027-11cgku.html

Primarily it discusses the difference between the injection regime required for TB4 which is one injection a day (5 working days) for 10 weeks as opposed to one injection a week for 6 weeks for thymomodulin.

Essendon players admitted to the 5 injections per week.

No wonder Hird and Essendon tried to have the interviews thrown out.

But but but we only took the good one.....

 

[SunshineBoy]

The real question is who leaked?

 

[FuManchu]

The real question is who leaked?

Maybe one of the 2 who are going with their own legal counsel.

 

[B0SK]

In hindsight its been obvious since the start the club is guilty of doping.

We've heard nothing but lies and bullshit from Essendon on the matter since the saga broke. I find it ironic that one of the greatest indicators of Essendon's guilt has been the club's own conduct. Evil destroys itself, truly poetic.

 

[FuManchu]

In hindsight its been obvious since the start the club is guilty of doping.

We've heard nothing but lies and bullshit from Essendon on the matter since the saga broke. I find it ironic that one of the greatest indicators of Essendon's guilt has been the club's own conduct. Evil destroys itself, truly poetic.

It was quite obvious the minute the club challenged the investigation that the club knew the investigation had the goods on them.

 

[moistie]

Essendon are straining the limits of credibility in attempting to claim they injected their players with a drug used for AIDS treatment when the alternative has been shown to have performance enhancing properties. Do they seriously believe the public are that gullible?

 

[Gigantor]

What should be interesting is GG's and Mxett's take on this. They will try and discredit, refute, deny, deflect and use all manners of avoidance.

Actually, I don't have to do any such thing, Roy has managed that all by himself.

My main interest is how Roy got to see the evidence ahead of the AFL General Counsel.

Perhaps further evidence that ASADA is angling for deals rather than having to test the evidence in the tribunal?

 

[Armchair Critic]

It's a very poorly written article,the injection schedules are actually the opposite to what is printed in the article. One big glaring * up

 

[FuManchu]

Actually, I don't have to do any such thing, Roy has managed that all by himself.

My main interest is how Roy got to see the evidence ahead of the AFL General Counsel.

Perhaps further evidence that ASADA is angling for deals rather than having to test the evidence in the tribunal?

Who cares how he got it. There's bound to be sources leaking from all areas to further their own cause.

If it's true and I imagine it is, because it's too easy to refute otherwise, it certainly is quite damning evidence. And makes the thymomodulin argument void.

 

[HoopsAhoy]

It was quite obvious the minute the club challenged the investigation that the club knew the investigation had the goods on them.

Well when it pans out how can the players not get a minimum 2 year ban - especially as Ahmed Saad got 18 months for one indiscretion on Game Day?

Punishment must be proportional and it is prima facie obvious that this was a concerted, deliberate, intentional doping regime program.

In the face of the additional evidence there is a strong basis for the AFL to impose additional penalties on key current/former EFC personnel who were involved. Major instigators like Hird and the coaches should get life bans. Others should be suspended for years from any involvement in any sport.

Essendon cheated - and they know it. Even if they are all massively gullible, stupid and deceptive.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Essendon cheated - and they know it. Even if they are all massively gullible, stupid and deceptive.

I think it's a case of "all of the above".

 

[Gigantor]

Who cares how he got it. There's bound to be sources leaking from all areas to further their own cause.

If it's true and I imagine it is, because it's too easy to refute otherwise, it certainly is quite damning evidence. And makes the thymomodulin argument void.

No, mate, you have to read this carefully and note that it is actually inconsistent in many key areas with other evidence which has made it into the public domain.

And there are not bound to be multiple sources - there is only one possible source.

 

[Unnamed1]

No, mate, you have to read this carefully and note that it is actually inconsistent in many key areas with other evidence which has made it into the public domain.

And there are not bound to be multiple sources - there is only one possible source.

I tend to agree with you, but note that Roy has generally been in the ball park of being right in his reporting of this mess

 

[Armchair Critic]

Who cares how he got it. There's bound to be sources leaking from all areas to further their own cause.

If it's true and I imagine it is, because it's too easy to refute otherwise, it certainly is quite damning evidence. And makes the thymomodulin argument void.

If Essendon players did admit to 5 injections a week schedule then they are laughing,the TB4 schedule is actually the 1 injection a week schedule

 

[FuManchu]

No, mate, you have to read this carefully and note that it is actually inconsistent in many key areas with other evidence which has made it into the public domain.

And there are not bound to be multiple sources - there is only one possible source.

I think the only evidence that is verifiable is what is in those SCNs. If you think this has been leaked from whatever source direct from the SCNs then you obviously must believe it to be true.

 

[Tazmania]

No, mate, you have to read this carefully and note that it is actually inconsistent in many key areas with other evidence which has made it into the public domain.

And there are not bound to be multiple sources - there is only one possible source.

What 'evidence' is that. Stories in newspapers don't make evidence and apart from that there has been almost nothing. To pin an argument on all the previous articles only to not include this one because it doesn't fit the previous is spurious.

For example there is another big inconsistency in the story that Roy has published. That multiple deliveries were made to Essendon over a period of time, enough for 34 X 50 injections.... but all we've ever heard previously is 26 vials were delivered that were refunded. One version fits the Essendon narrative the other fits the Asada narrative..... but neither currently are evidence. Asada has all that.

 

[FuManchu]

If Essendon players did admit to 5 injections a week schedule then they are laughing,the TB4 schedule is actually the 1 injection a week schedule

I wouldn't know because I've never delved into the dosages side of things.

But if asada have built a case on dosages, I doubt they will have got that most important aspect wrong.

 

[Armchair Critic]

I wouldn't know because I've never delved into the dosages side of things.

But if asada have built a case on dosages, I doubt they will have got that most important aspect wrong.

I doubt they have either,Roy has got it completely wrong though so it does not give much credibility to the article.

 

[FuManchu]

Just went to this page

http://tb500.bz

The dosage rates are 2-4 times a week for TB4

 

[Gigantor]

What 'evidence' is that. Stories in newspapers don't make evidence and apart from that there has been almost nothing. To pin an argument on all the previous articles only to not include this one because it doesn't fit the previous is spurious.

For example there is another big inconsistency in the story that Roy has published. That multiple deliveries were made to Essendon over a period of time, enough for 34 X 50 injections.... but all we've ever heard previously is 26 vials were delivered that were refunded. One version fits the Essendon narrative the other fits the Asada narrative..... but neither currently are evidence. Asada has all that.

Firstly, I hope you would agree that while it's exciting to get close to being able to test this all in the tribunal (if ASADA wants to get there, that is), the Masters article raises as many questions as answers.

That ASADA are now turning to this route is a further indication that they are reluctant to test this in the tribunal, which is an interesting discussion in its own right.

This is from ASADA's interim report:

Within Mr Charter’s document it is recommended that Thymosin Beta-4 be administered subcutaneously, at the optimum frequency of ‘one vial per [subcutaneous] injection per week for 6 consecutive weeks, then 1 vial per month’. (662 email from Charter and Alavi 12 January 2012 at 6.42am) The frequency rate of administration for ‘Thymosin’ on the players’ ‘Patient Information/Informed Consent’ form is ‘1 Thymosin injection once a week for six weeks and then 1 injection per month’. (663 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx).​

 

[Tazmania]

I doubt they have either,Roy has got it completely wrong though so it does not give much credibility to the article.

Actually I don't think he has. This http://tb500.bz/ website talks about the loading phase of 4-6 weeks where depending on dosages you have 2-4 injections per week. Which is relatively consistent with what Roy is saying.

Not sure where the 1 per week comes from.

 

[Gigantor]

I doubt they have either,Roy has got it completely wrong though so it does not give much credibility to the article.

I think this sums it up nicely.

Nevertheless, we are reaching the fun stage where there will be plenty of grist for the mill, looking forward to it.

 

[threesixpio]

an interesting read.

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ests-on-injection-regime-20141027-11cgku.html

Primarily it discusses the difference between the injection regime required for TB4 which is one injection a day (5 working days) for 10 weeks as opposed to one injection a week for 6 weeks for thymomodulin.

Essendon players admitted to the 5 injections per week.

No wonder Hird and Essendon tried to have the interviews thrown out.

Always said evidence in the players interviews re regularity of injections would be the clincher. I think you (Fu Manchu) said side effects too. This is why the club went to court. Add the consents and this ship is sunk.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Actually I don't think he has. This http://tb500.bz/ website talks about the loading phase of 4-6 weeks where depending on dosages you have 2-4 injections per week. Which is relatively consistent with what Roy is saying.

Not sure where the 1 per week comes from.

The consent forms from the interim report