Australia nanny state: Have we become a nation of idiots?

[TigerCraig]

We need to stop regulating actions, but penalise bad outcomes.

For example why is it that in Singapore - the definition of a nanny state to most - I can sit in a food court and down a long neck, or go to a night club and be sold sealed bottles of spirits, mixers and ice and me and my mates be left to mix drinks ourselves at our table; but in Australia I have to put up with RSA garbage? Same in Japan - free pouring spirits everywhere, beer in vending machines etc.

The difference in those places are that you are smashed if you mess up - be drunk and disorderly in public or violent, but left alone if you behave.

It used to be like that here. I started going to pubs at 14 and noone cared. In Year 11 & 12 we went to the pub in our free periods in our school uniforms and noone cared - so long as you behaved yourself. Now anyone who looks under 30 (I wish) gets asked for ID.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

We need to stop regulating actions, but penalise bad outcomes.

For example why is it that in Singapore - the definition of a nanny state to most - I can sit in a food court and down a long neck, or go to a night club and be sold sealed bottles of spirits, mixers and ice and me and my mates be left to mix drinks ourselves at our table; but in Australia I have to put up with RSA garbage? Same in Japan - free pouring spirits everywhere, beer in vending machines etc.

The difference in those places are that you are smashed if you mess up - be drunk and disorderly in public or violent, but left alone if you behave.

It used to be like that here. I started going to pubs at 14 and noone cared. In Year 11 & 12 we went to the pub in our free periods in our school uniforms and noone cared - so long as you behaved yourself. Now anyone who looks under 30 (I wish) gets asked for ID.

How are they smashed?

 

[TigerCraig]

How are they smashed?

Fines and/or jail

 

[The Punter]

Seeds

Perhaps if he came to Australia for a holiday, and lived and worked in Europe, he'd think differently.

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

Is this true? Where?

Sure is.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/drivers-face-fines-for-unlocked-cars-20100517-v7db.html

 

[Hoops]

Sure is.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/drivers-face-fines-for-unlocked-cars-20100517-v7db.html

I live in the Yarra Ranges shire (not the Yarra Ranges). This is news to me.

 

[kickazz]

It's just ******* horrible. Green space? Nah **** that, let's cover it in concrete. Not that you could say planning has ever been a strong point of this country.

We could actually learn something from a place like Shanghai - they are actually aware of overcrowding, etc and have made an effort to create even more green spaces.

You need those if you want people to live in high density apartments. Docklands is a shambles.

 

[kickazz]

Great post boss.

The author of the article linked in the OP is totally delusional if they think that Europe has a model worth emulating in Australia.

Europe is totally over regulated to the point where it's industry has been strangled to death.

There are three growth industries in Europe: Government largesse; rent seeking; and small bars.

Hardly something worth copying here.

Germany bucking the trend though. Started some time ago investing in R&D and Manufacturing, solid sectors that are sustainable and lift secondary industries with it.

 

[kfc1]

Sure is.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/drivers-face-fines-for-unlocked-cars-20100517-v7db.html

 

[Ant85]

Answer to the OP - definite yes.

This country is so over-regulated you break laws without knowing.

I have recently returned after living overseas for several years, and the reverse culture shock was astounding.

Ironically, I felt freer as an individual in a developing country where there wasn't a law for every action under the sun (night time curfews, what the hell is that?).

We like to refer to Australia as a "free" country, but the accurate adjective would be a "controlled" country. The overbearing interference in our lives by governments and bureaucracy has confined us along a narrow strip, with very little flexibility. From being told at what times we can or cannot go out, to the most stringent of road rules, we're being crafted as robots where bureaucracy thinks for us, and we just plod along the pre-determined schedule to continue oiling the economy.

Economic fodder, that's all we are.

 

[CountryRace]

Answer to the OP - definite yes.

This country is so over-regulated you break laws without knowing.

I have recently returned after living overseas for several years, and the reverse culture shock was astounding.

Ironically, I felt freer as an individual in a developing country where there wasn't a law for every action under the sun (night time curfews, what the hell is that?).

We like to refer to Australia as a "free" country, but the accurate adjective would be a "controlled" country. The overbearing interference in our lives by governments and bureaucracy has confined us along a narrow strip, with very little flexibility. From being told at what times we can or cannot go out, to the most stringent of road rules, we're being crafted as robots where bureaucracy thinks for us, and we just plod along the pre-determined schedule to continue oiling the economy.

Economic fodder, that's all we are.

the coppers at the 'G were threatening people over... paper planes

 

[medusala]

When you no longer have a media that is interested in journalism, but only in sensationalism it is fair to say that the public is of sub par intelligence. Investigative journalism and even a bi-partisan media is dead in this country, when the only mainstream media that sits in the centre is constantly picked on by government and the rest of the media for being leftist you know the country is too far to the right.

We have a bigger budget deficit than most of the PIGS. Australia is hardly too far to the right. Wait til we have to carry out the same policies as the PIGS re spending, IR etc. Matter of time. Lucky country is out of luck.

Re OP, its very obvious after being out of the country on and off for a few years that Australia has definitely headed towards nanny state territory. If 18c wasn't bad enough the idiocy of having public bike hire in Melbourne and having to wear a helmet tops the cake.

Investigative journalism and even a bi-partisan media is dead in this country, when the only mainstream media that sits in the centre is constantly picked on by government and the rest of the media for being leftist you know the country is too far to the right.

ABC centrist? humour. Where are you putting Fairfax?

 

[blackcat]

We have a bigger budget deficit than most of the PIGS. Australia is hardly too far to the right. Wait til we have to carry out the same policies as the PIGS re spending, IR etc. Matter of time. Lucky country is out of luck.

Re OP, its very obvious after being out of the country on and off for a few years that Australia has definitely headed towards nanny state territory. If 18c wasn't bad enough the idiocy of having public bike hire in Melbourne and having to wear a helmet tops the cake.



ABC centrist? humour. Where are you putting Fairfax?

Meds, we aint all geniusplural like Bojo.
#BarclaysBorisBikes helmets voluntary

 

[medusala]

Meds, we aint all geniusplural like Bojo.

Its gone downhill since Howard and his fridge magnets. Went through Perth airport a couple of weeks ago and Ebola signs up everywhere, ridiculous. Few things in life are more idiotic than government public awareness programs. There is always a never ending stream of delusional tools out there who think that the public just needs to be "educated". This despite those people being utter no hopers with nothing more than an Arts degree to their name (see Plibersek)

If you didn't study classics, then I'm not interested.

 

[blackcat]

Its gone downhill since Howard and his fridge magnets. Went through Perth airport a couple of weeks ago and Ebola signs up everywhere, ridiculous. Few things in life are more idiotic than government public awareness programs. There is always a never ending stream of delusional tools out there who think that the public just needs to be "educated". This despite those people being utter no hopers with nothing more than an Arts degree to their name (see Plibersek)

If you didn't study classics, then I'm not interested.

even his bikes are better than the shitty ones Doyle got for Melbourne. Or John So.

but Doyle was a teacher from Melbourne Grammar out of Geelong. idjit

 

[Taylor]

I don't think the laws for self protection, like helmets for bikes or seatbelts in cars etc, are in nations where the state will look after your healthcare.

The big safety net is in place for accidental stuff ups and they don't want to pay for the extra ones where someone chose to be less safe.

Would you want to live in a country where someone decides not to wear a bike helmet, falls off and is brain damaged, then is left to the family to look after or to die on the street if no family can look after them?

 

[medusala]

even his bikes are better than the shitty ones Doyle got for Melbourne. Or John So.

Melbourne version is crap. The stupidity of public servants never ceases to amaze me.

Even bigger threat these days is doctors. If I want to eat sugar, bacon, dominos pizza whilst drowning a bottle of Pernod I will. I don't need a bloody doctor to tell me what to do, scream for sin taxes and stupid labelling. Annoying bastards

"Beer please Woody."
"Isn't it a little early Mr Peterson?"
"OK. Float a cornflake in it"

I don't think the laws for self protection, like helmets for bikes or seatbelts in cars etc, are in nations where the state will look after your healthcare.

London, helmets not compulsory. As for drink driving in England, its very different (I couldn't believe it when I found out re this, given how strict Oz is)

http://www.80mg.org.uk/ddlaw.html

Police Powers
For the police to be able to require a breath test, a driver must have either:
(a) committed a moving traffic offence, e.g. speeding, failing to observe a stop sign, having a defective light etc.,
(b) have been involved in an accident to which the police were called, or
(c) have given the police grounds to suspect they had consumed alcohol above the legal limit, e.g. by driving erratically or walking unsteadily before getting into the car. It is questionable whether the mere fact of having driven out of a pub car park constitutes reasonable grounds for suspicion

 

[skilts]

What do you mean by "become"?

 

[blackcat]

What do you mean by "become"?

maturity, fulfillment, actualisation

previously latent. not manifest.

 

[telsor]

It's true, a lot of the restrictions come about due to having to look after the 5% who are a bit too thick to look after themselves. I guess many Australians tend to embrace the egalitarian nature of our society, and with that comes a bit over-governance.

The other thing to always be aware of is the indirect impact an individual's poor choice can have on the rest of us. David Leyonhjelm used the bike helmet example - if one chooses to not wear a helmet, then one is only putting oneself at risk. This is not technically true. Should that cyclist suffer head injuries, then the state will end up providing care. Same with things like seatbelts or smoking. A truly libertarian approach would also remove all recourse to help from the state should such poor choice deal you unwanted consequences.

I'd be slightly more nuanced...

The government recommends bike helmets, defines standards, etc, but it's your choice if you wear one or not.

If you have an accident without one you receive reduced care (more likely you need to pay to make up the 'gap') in (approximate) proportion to the degree to which your lack of protection exacerbated the injury. (so if you broke your wrist, you're covered, but a head injury you might only get 50% paid for by the state).

 

[Slax]

We have a bigger budget deficit than most of the PIGS. Australia is hardly too far to the right. Wait til we have to carry out the same policies as the PIGS re spending, IR etc. Matter of time. Lucky country is out of luck.

Re OP, its very obvious after being out of the country on and off for a few years that Australia has definitely headed towards nanny state territory. If 18c wasn't bad enough the idiocy of having public bike hire in Melbourne and having to wear a helmet tops the cake.



ABC centrist? humour. Where are you putting Fairfax?

Fair call.

Fairfax standards have dropped markedly in recent years, one of the most notable drops has been in forensic journalism, they now seem to just report the news rather than actually analyse it. The Australian is rally the only decent paper left, and that has also carried the Liberal Party slant that it's owner demands. The biggest problem is we no longer have any quality in our media and we have a government that is repealing whistle blower protections in order to save itself from the release of damning information of a number of its policies. Sure I'd understand if it was for national security reasons, but when it is to stop negative press over offshore processing, that is just a joke and the press have let him get away with it because they have only paid it a passing glance rather than actually realise that they are next.

 

[The Punter]

A personal decision not to wear a bike helmet can not only potentially drain the public purse, but can also affect family and friends emotionally, with the potential to severely limit their economic production while grieving or caring for injured loved ones.

Most "nanny state" laws are not about protecting you - they are about protecting the people who love you from your own selfish or short-sighted actions.

 

[Lebbo73]

A personal decision not to wear a bike helmet can not only potentially drain the public purse, but can also affect family and friends emotionally, with the potential to severely limit their economic production while grieving or caring for injured loved ones.

Most "nanny state" laws are not about protecting you - they are about protecting the people who love you from your own selfish or short-sighted actions.

While I do agree with this, there is some experts who are questioning whether cycling bike helmets cause more damage then they prevent.

 

[The Punter]

Well that goes to the effectiveness of the preventative device worn, rather than the general libertarian problem with, you know, law.

 

[Wallaby]

Why don't we legislate for compulsory helmets in cars? There are huge numbers of head injuries caused by hitting ones head against the inside of a vehicle in an accident.

A brief internet browse turned up that the chief cause in the USA of Traumatic Brain Injury is from falls - particulkarly among the elderly. Traffic accidents are the 2nd. You would have to think our figures in Australia are similar.

This Monash study explains the wearing protective headgear would provide 3-4 times the benefit of just providing extra padding in the car interior.
http://www.monash.edu.au/miri/research/reports/atsb160.html

If we are serious about 'Most "nanny state" laws are not about protecting you - they are about protecting the people who love you from your own selfish or short-sighted actions' why not protective helmets in cars?