Society/Culture Australia, the home of subtle racism.

[slicedndiced]

Thank you.


It's actually the opposite - teaching each new generation that these words are offensive makes you part of the problem.
If a japanese person or an aboriginal person finds those terms offensive it says more about their victim mentality than the person saying them.

Yes, yes, in this Utopia you claim we live in.

The fact of the matter is that children are not taught to be offended by this at all. Do you really think that Aboriginal and Japanese parents sit their kids down and teach them a list of terms to be offended by??

I mean really?

They are exposed to the term from birth by people who use it with only one intent, and that is to cause offense.

Check out Kram81 's post above yours.

The education in regards to terms like these does not lie with the offended person at all, it falls upon the ignorant pillock who uses it in the first place.

 

[Gough]

I'd never even heard of Abo being a racial slur until I was 20+ years old yet apparently I'm racist for using a simple abbreviation like I do most nationalities and names.

It's good that this discussion happened in this thread, which began with discussion about depression amongst Aboriginal people. How do we help cure depression? We teach aboriginal people that someone abbreviating a long word is a reason to be offended and hurt. That makes so much sense to me :nuts:

As a straight white man I'm sure you can bring a unique perspective to the concept of victimisation.

 

[scon]

It's actually the opposite - teaching each new generation that these words are offensive makes you part of the problem.
If a japanese person or an aboriginal person finds those terms offensive it says more about their victim mentality than the person saying them.

Is this perverse paradoxical dumb or just straight up old fashioned bog ordinary I've got very little to think with dumb?

 

[kfc1]

As a straight white man I'm sure you can bring a unique perspective to the concept of victimisation.

Notwithstanding your assumptions about my ethnicity or sexual orientation, to dismiss my opinion based on same is exactly the racism you're whinging about :nuts:

 

[kfc1]

Is this perverse paradoxical dumb or just straight up old fashioned bog ordinary I've got very little to think with dumb?

Post-racism

 

[Gough]

If you want to call someone an Abo or a Jap or a NTTAWWT, fine, that's your right. Just don't be suprised when oneday you do it the wrong person and the belt the suitcase out of you.

 

[kfc1]

The fact of the matter is that children are not taught to be offended by this at all. Do you really think that Aboriginal and Japanese parents sit their kids down and teach them a list of terms to be offended by??

I mean really?

They are exposed to the term from birth by people who use it with only one intent, and that is to cause offense.

Check out Kram81 's post above yours.

You're an intelligent guy, I'm not sure why you would make such a stupid comment.

A child is born without any language skills - they are taught to communicate by their parents, family and peers. How else do they learn words?

Kid: Mum, this kid at school kept calling me "abbo" - what's that?
Mum: That's a mean word they use to insult us, son.

The education in regards to terms like these does not lie with the offended person at all, it falls upon the ignorant pillock who uses it in the first place.

I disagree - we are talking about a simple abbreviation of a long word. Whenever there is a term with more than one meaning, i.e. a person can use it without any racist intent, then it is incumbent on the receiver to ask themselves why they are assuming it is derogatory. It says more about the victim mindset than anything else.

If you can find a single post of mine in any thread which would be a racial slur if you replaced abo with aborigine/al then you might have a point.

 

[slicedndiced]

You're an intelligent guy, I'm not sure why you would make such a stupid comment.

A child is born without any language skills - they are taught to communicate by their parents, family and peers. How else do they learn words?

Kid: Mum, this kid at school kept calling me "abbo" - what's that?
Mum: That's a mean word they use to insult us, son.

I get the distinct impression that you don't know a single Aboriginal, let alone sat down and had a chat with one or experienced their life at all.

What you fail to realise is that the term you love so much is never used in a singular sense when used towards an aboriginal.

It is coupled with f***ing abos' or the like and the meaning is clear and unambiguous.

A mothers explanation is not needed.

I disagree - we are talking about a simple abbreviation of a long word. Whenever there is a term with more than one meaning, i.e. a person can use it without any racist intent, then it is incumbent on the receiver to ask themselves why they are assuming it is derogatory. It says more about the victim mindset than anything else.

If you can find a single post of mine in any thread which would be a racial slur if you replaced abo with aborigine/al then you might have a point.

I've never claimed that you're a racist, just that you are pig ignorant.

You have a very naive idea of what really happens. Very naive indeed.

Like Gough says, you will use that term to the wrong person one day, and then, no doubt, claim that you were wronged in some way, when he beats the s**t out of you.

Incredible.

 

[kfc1]

I get the distinct impression that you don't know a single Aboriginal, let alone sat down and had a chat with one or experienced their life at all.

What you fail to realise is that the term you love so much is never used in a singular sense when used towards an aboriginal.

It is coupled with f***ing abos' or the like and the meaning is clear and unambiguous.

A mothers explanation is not needed.

Bold: So what are my posts then?
Are you implying that saying "******* abos" is bad but "******* aborigines" is fine?

I've never claimed that you're a racist, just that you are pig ignorant.

You have a very naive idea of what really happens. Very naive indeed.

Like Gough says, you will use that term to the wrong person one day, and then, no doubt, claim that you were wronged in some way, when he beats the s**t out of you.

Incredible.

As much as you'd enjoy that, it's very unlikely.

 

[Kram]

Each of the scenes in the commercial when viewed in isolation aren't shattering by any stretch and each one, on their own, aren't likely to send someone off to top themselves. However, faced with these types of situations day in day out it becomes a pattern that can lead to a person feeling worthless because of their skin colour

It's a cumulative effect and one that if you're not faced with it likely dont understand its impact.

Long time ago now but thinking back about to it in year 1 in the late 80s I was in a class that only had just the one very shy aboriginal girl (all the others went to the other 2 schools), from memory nobody ever said anything mean or did anything bad to her whatsoever, but was pretty much always 'excluded', as in no one would play with her and would always be last to have someone sit next to her in class. Must have be an awful feeling for a little kid.

 

[slicedndiced]

Bold: So what are my posts then?
Are you implying that saying "******* abos" is bad but "******* aborigines" is fine?

You are posting to a middle aged white guy. There is a subtle difference. Maybe you can see it?

As much as you'd enjoy that, it's very unlikely.

Wrong again. I am totally against violence in all of its forms.

However, sometimes we reap what we sow.

I will guess that it is unlikely event as you have almost zero contact with Aboriginals and wouldn't have the backbone to use the term if you did.

 

[Baldur]

See, that's only your opinion. It does not make it fact.

You stated your case, I replied and never the twain shall meet.

I accept that, best you do too.

Fair enough, but one thing. Have another look at my post. Not once did I ever suggest in any way that your relatives were lying in relation to their subjective experience.

 

[mottrain]

Ill-informed?

Just how and where do you get "informed"?

I am yet to see an "informed" comment by you on just about anything.



You concern for "their" well-being is deeply touching and oh so very obvious.

.

Is this the "concern for their well-being" that you talk about?



Did anyone else get abused, or only the fool who decided that it was a great idea to stare with a look of derision and then cry when you got told to f*** off?



And this is why you constantly get assaulted and abused. Actions and consequences. Go for a walk in Central Park, New York and do the same to some white wino's and see what happens.



Just where did you pull this from? I have, without doubt, been called a white campaigner, (gudiya gumbudge), on far more occasions than you have. I most certainly don't defend the language and yes, the racism. However, I do understand why there is such bitterness and resentment. If we, as a people, continue the cycle of abuse from both sides, nothing will ever change.




You might want to back up that bus and quickly. And, for once, stop selectively using my words.

My example showed ONLY my son, the tradesman, being followed with suspicion whilst white apprentices were allowed to roam free. i also cited where people had actually rang his boss to get him removed because he wasn't "suitable". This is a kid who was in top percentile of his apprenticeship group and is a very, very capable tradesman.



See up ^^



wut??



Get back to me when you can rise above using partisan politics, and your own moronic behaviour in public as justification for your pov.

All you want to do is deny the issue.

How is that informed debate?

I like the bit where you take filth of of context even after it is explained/defined after the word was written. How ironic considering you whinge about certain agendas supposedly held by some.

I also like how you have had the desire to tell me what do I expect when I stared at them. Nice to see you are changing words and putting them in my mouth considering your outrage when others supposedly have done it to you and as ironically you bitch about in the last part of the post.

I also like it how I am responsible for causing the situation when all I was doing is looking at something that most I dare say who aren't use to would be shocked and apprehensive about. I further like how this makes my behaviour moronic. How rational you are . Come back to me when you can look at things without bias or prejudice to one side.

As for the issue or supposed issue with your son, I guess you took action for this discrimination. Also you expanded here on what was stated in the OP .

 

[slicedndiced]

Fair enough, but one thing. Have another look at my post. Not once did I ever suggest in any way that your relatives were lying in relation to their subjective experience.

All good.

 

[mottrain]

So, we change the name of the Government Department to "The Department for those who are disadvantaged, down-trodden and in need of Special help" and your angst will magically disappear?

It just so happens that both sides of the political spectrum agree that Aboriginals are in need of a specialised set of funding and programs to deal specifically with their issues. Keeping it within a defined department makes sense, as the issue of remote living, communal land tenure and mining/land right issues are UNIQUE to Aboriginals in our society.

However, IF what you advocate would lessen the Aboriginal "industry" where self-serving white AND black bureaucrats are denied their self-entitled trough guzzling of the funds, at the expense of those who it was originally intended for then, yes, I would consider it a worthy change.



Hardly.

What I think is of no consequence.

What they, (my kids), their cousins, friends etc, say, feel and experience is the issue here.

I am merely the messenger conveying anecdotal evidence which backs up a study stating the same.

You don't believe the study, so are my family and every single Aboriginal that I know lying? Is Noel Pearson et al lying?



Again, no-one here is whining. Everyone moves on with their life and rises above it. That, however, doesn't mean that they should be subjected to it in the first place.

What I am finding disturbing is the ongoing attempt, by some, in justifying this behaviour in society.



What is insulting is the off-handed brushing away of the issue and the need to criticise people going out of their way to make something of themselves in life, yet still feeling racism and making comment about it.

Education is a two-way street. We all want to see Aboriginals rise above their circumstance, yet cry, and call reverse racism, when an attempt by them to educate the wider public is uttered.

Catch 22.

If you were the messenger solely then you would look at issues openly and logically and not blame or criticise/rebut anyone's positions that are seen to be against Aboriginal or their cause and wouldn't be sprouting that the prop Aboriginal comments are right regardless.

 

[kfc1]

You are posting to a middle aged white guy. There is a subtle difference. Maybe you can see it?

So why are you going off on a strawman argument about calling people '******* abos' when it has nothing to do with my posts?

wouldn't have the backbone to use the term if you did.

This suggestion is rather humorous. First you're telling me I need to be considerate of whom I am speaking with, then you're telling me I lack backbone if I don't call them "abos".

 

[mottrain]

As a straight white man I'm sure you can bring a unique perspective to the concept of victimisation.

Ahh and there is the bigoted prejudicial golden statement that actually turns a lot away from supporting certain causes.

 

[slicedndiced]

So why are you going off on a strawman argument about calling people '******* abos' when it has nothing to do with my posts?


This suggestion is rather humorous. First you're telling me I need to be considerate of whom I am speaking with, then you're telling me I lack backbone if I don't call them "abos".

You're the one advocating that it's a perfectly acceptable term.

 

[cartwright]

Honestly I've only heard that term out come out of bogans.

 

[mottrain]

You're the one advocating that it's a perfectly acceptable term.

You see here is the irony in such words. Groups like Gays and Aboriginals get offended when abbrevations of the words that describe them are used as a pparently they are evil etc despite this being a common practice throughout English language in a range of forms.

 

[kfc1]

You're the one advocating that it's a perfectly acceptable term.

Correct. I think it is perfectly acceptable to abbreviate the terms aborigine and aborignal to 'abo' in whatever context. If its neutral, it remains neutral; if it's a positive comment, it remains positive; if it's an insult then it remains an insult.

 

[slicedndiced]

Correct. I think it is perfectly acceptable to abbreviate the terms aborigine and aborignal to 'abo' in whatever context. If its neutral, it remains neutral; if it's a positive comment, it remains positive; if it's an insult then it remains an insult.

Like I originally said, carry on.

It's pure ignorance, but nothing will change your mind.

Just don't cry if it bites you on the arse.

 

[kfc1]

What is your interest in ensuring that it remains a racist slur? Quarantining words only makes their impact more powerful.

Wouldn't it be better to teach people that the term is meaningless?

 

[slicedndiced]

What is your interest in ensuring that it remains a racist slur? Quarantining words only makes their impact more powerful.

Wouldn't it be better to teach people that the term is meaningless?

You're better than that. Don't infer that my intention is to keep it as a racist slur. I would love for this type of thing to never occur from both "sides".

My contention is that you seem to think that using the term openly is helping the current situation and that the onus lies upon Aboriginals to somehow fix the situation.

This isn't a chicken or the egg argument.

If people stopped using the term, and it is only ever used in a derogatory manner, despite your attempts to twist that, we wouldn't have the problem in the first place.

There are slang terms which are perfectly acceptable, such as blackfella.

So why not use that instead of intentionally inflaming an already painful subject?

Honestly, it really is childish.

 

[Kram]

Geez.. that's completely fine if you've happened to never think of it in a negative way in the past or whatever, but imo in society it has almost always been used to describe anyone or anything aboriginal in a rude or poorly way, surely it's not that hard to understand. Each to their own but I'd strongly advice against using the term 'abo'.