Mega Thread All things Tony Abbott

Who will be the next Prime Minister of Australia

  • Malcolm Turnbull

  • Julie Bishop

  • Scott Morrison

  • Andrew Robb

  • Someone from the LIberal Party other than those above

  • Bill Shorten

  • Someone from the Labor Party other than Shorten


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Norm Smith Medallist
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are apple computers better than IBM compatibles? who cares, they are worth what the market is prepared to pay.

People will make their own choice based on research and price. Whilst universities will have to compete on price and quality.
They shouldn't be competing on price, they are a social service. We want graduates being selected on merit, so ability and effort are limiting factors, not wealth
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Abbott is leading the country admirably during this very harrowing moment in the face of the terrorists taking control of Martin Place. I cant help feeling this may win him another term.
Do you get paid to post now?

Since when did we just accept political opportunism exploiting tragedy, is par for the course.

Anyway, he still has time to stuff it up, like both Malaysia flights.

EDIT: terrorists? It is one person. Admirably and leading, just standard press appearances. Terrorism, I will wait and see.

One thing is for certain, Hockey is happy.
 

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Poor Tone, it's hard to be likeable when you can't say more than 3 scripted words at a time.
The thing that really showed Tony Abbott's capabilities to me was how he didn't just put, but rammed, his foot in his own mouth over the Chief of staff Peta "call me Peter" situation. For his minders to let him bring the gender argument back to the for front was amazing.

This fellow must not realise what his enemies and the media will do with this comment from him about Peta being called Peter would not have her treated the same way.

If he can't see the hipocr
Great thread.

Fair chance this is a pisstake, but the poster is from WA though.

Abbotts slip up about Pete " call me Peter" showed me his inability to say anything that doesn't scare his minders into nervous breakdowns.

In fact how he wacks his foot in his mouth with hypocrisy like that, is mind boggling.

Why would he say that and leave himself wide open to a broadside attack. Which came almost instantly.

He simply does not put his brain into gear before speaking.

Which has to have you wondering how he makes decisions before thinking on them.

Or does dear old Pete(a/er) run the country . Some of Tone's ministers think she does.

She should never be slipped into a blue ribbon to get rid of her , she is already Madam trough feeder material.
 
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Lol. Labor competently stuffed the economy and is blocking every single attempt to repair it with their communist green mates in the senate. Now, with record debt to show for it our key commodity prices have halved, recording the highest drops in more than a century.. blowing the budget out ever further within spitting distance of an IMF intervention that will include a drop in our credit rating (meaning higher interest) and enforced austerity.

But its all Tony Abbotts fault and a union boss Shorten will fix it.
Let's fix the budget by punishing the poor through increasing the cost of a visit to the doctor and punishing the health sector through freezing Medicare funding, slashing funding for schools, hitting pensioners and forcing anyone unfortunate enough to become unemployed and aged under 25 will have to have to live without money for six months.

Amazingly, the rich and big business get a free pass. No mention of closing corporate or other tax loopholes.

In fact two decent sized holes in the budget come from the current government doing a solid for their big business mates. The remove the carbon price (to reduce income) and give bucket loads of money to polluters and they rescinded the mining tax.

But hey, the serfs should accept their lot and allow the rich to get richer while they pay off the budget deficit. There's a reason opinion polls are 54-46 Xsess and it ain't no left wing conspiracy.
 
What political point scoring?

You are an amoral numpty, who has regressed so far up his own arsehole, that you believe a hostage crisis, is a good opportunity for partisan trolling.

The difference between you and say xsess, is only the thin veneer of pseudointellectualism
How this will play out domestically is a legit question. It could well be Abbott's Tampa depending on what happens in the end. What he doesn't have on his side that Howard did is a healthy economy, people are only so impressed by tubthumping, if they are struggling financial it's not going to be foremost in their mind.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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How this will play out domestically is a legit question. It could well be Abbott's Tampa depending on what happens in the end. What he doesn't have on his side that Howard did is a healthy economy, people are only so impressed by tubthumping, if they are struggling financial it's not going to be foremost at the front of their mind.
If Abbott is controlled, then it could very well be politically oportune in a sick way.

If he can't control his party and the crazies milk the situation, I would expect an early bump post crisis followed by longer term damage. Retrospectively, people often don't appreciate that kind of rank destructive opportunism, but the time before the hangover begins is usually proportional to the tragedy

I just hope no one is hurt. The political wrangling is becomin fatigueing
 
They shouldn't be competing on price, they are a social service. We want graduates being selected on merit, so ability and effort are limiting factors, not wealth

So universities should make themselves more efficient, more productive or better quality for the same price? universities shouldn't become more innovative? universities shouldn't become more respectful of their students and the tax payer? universities shouldn't consider how they engage with society, industry or other education centres?

and the lol factor comes out about wealth and merit! you do know how HECS works right? lol

You have ignored my basic premise - the choosers don't necessarily choose wisely. Why are there more law students than practising lawyers. What happened to the invisible hand perfectly matching supply and demand. The market for computers cures a glut pretty quickly.

The State has a stake in tertiary education because if there are not wise choices made we are into banana republic territory - the current iron ore price shows that if we are to be prosperous in the second half of this century we can't rely on what we can dig out of the ground or grow.

I think you have just answered you own question.

University students are clever people and capable of doing a cost benefit analysis. By having a deregulated system universities will have to promote their capabilities and thus more information will be available to students to decide.

Sure some will make mistakes but that is life. Some win and some lose but at least it will be on the back of their own decisions, effort and merit.

Yeh but a recession was the upside risk - it could have lead to total melt down, a depression and a generation of young people who never had a job. I would have taken a punt on stimulus in those circumstances

no

that would only have happened if it occurred overseas. It was not a risk here due to the wonderful framework set up by Paul Keating.

Terrible post.

It will only allow some universities to generate the required revenue and this is debatable. Government funding should be increased, to bring us in line with the majority of developed countries.

Universities exist in Australia for their social utility, they are not yet corporate entities, that have price dictated by scarcity. To do so would compromise the system and stunt our ability to maximise student utility. It becomes about wealth, not talent. The limiting factor now is performance, this is how it should remain.

Students do not receive a free education, they receive a low interest debt. The individual debt burden under deregulation could become prohibitive. Not all jobs in each industry, nor jobs period are high paying. The danger is also that a future government will change indexation for loans, or seek to privatise debt, this will be disasterous. Given the cost the future generation will bear for the largesse of the older, due to super concessions, CGT benefit, aging population, 80-150k debt will not only be prohibitive, but will deeply hurt the economy as their ability to consume will be lessenned.

Deregulation is not a fair fee, given the social utility and cost already inherent in undertaking study, students pay through dedication and time during their youth or adult life, much like a proffessional sports person. We already sit bottom of the table for funding amongst developed countries, per student, fee deregulation on top of this is social sabotage

what can you say about an alarmist post.

university education results in higher pay to the individual. If it doesn't then they don't have to pay the debt back.

I trust you are pretty young?
 
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Norm Smith Medallist
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what can you say about an alarmist post.

university education results in higher pay to the individual. If it doesn't then they don't have to pay the debt back.

I trust you are pretty young?
But the debt still exists. Under previous plans, if interest on the principal was no longer indexed, then it could appreciate to a rather alarming sum.

Likewise, the job market changes. There is no way these kids can reasonably predict the future. The smart kids will be risk averse, which will hurt the country long term, especially as science degrees are expected to rise dramatically, but the sciences often don't pay well in Aus.

It will also encourage those that succeed to move elsewhere.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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So universities should make themselves more efficient, more productive or better quality for the same price? universities shouldn't become more innovative? universities shouldn't become more respectful of their students and the tax payer? universities shouldn't consider how they engage with society, industry or other education centres?

and the lol factor comes out about wealth and merit! you do know how HECS works right? lol
Rambling nonsense,
 

romeoh

Norm Smith Medallist
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How this will play out domestically is a legit question. It could well be Abbott's Tampa depending on what happens in the end. What he doesn't have on his side that Howard did is a healthy economy, people are only so impressed by tubthumping, if they are struggling financial it's not going to be foremost in their mind.
Nope-its pretty different from the Tampa thing and its 2 years to an election -the timing was the windfall for little Johnny.
 

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But the debt still exists. Under previous plans, if interest on the principal was no longer indexed, then it could appreciate to a rather alarming sum.

Likewise, the job market changes. There is no way these kids can reasonably predict the future. The smart kids will be risk averse, which will hurt the country long term, especially as science degrees are expected to rise dramatically, but the sciences often don't pay well in Aus.

It will also encourage those that succeed to move elsewhere.

the debt nevertheless doesn't have to be paid back unless they student earns income above a threshold. the debt has always been charged an interest rate which was traditionally inflation but the proposal is inflation plus a margin (a small margin at that).

The debt can be paid off in instalments or lump sums which resut in up to 25(?)% discounts if I recall correctly. 25% wow!

Smart kids will always know university is a good investment.
 

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The Labor mess will take a generation to fix. 6 years of chaos and two decades of pain of which our youth will pay the highest price.

It is disgraceful that 10-18yo's who can't vote have been burdened with so much debt. I wonder if Labor will send out Christmas cards each year to these kids with a their individual debt balance?

View attachment 97993

Amuses me that ALP and current generations are acused of stealing from future generations but the same people think gonski, structurall providing direct education funding increases for future generations is also bad ?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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the debt nevertheless doesn't have to be paid back unless they student earns income above a threshold. the debt has always been charged an interest rate which was traditionally inflation but the proposal is inflation plus a margin (a small margin at that).

The debt can be paid off in instalments or lump sums which resut in up to 25(?)% discounts if I recall correctly. 25% wow!

Smart kids will always know university is a good investment.
There are proposals to lower the threshold, increase interest and deregulation will increase cost substantially. This could lead to a situation where debts either take decades to pay off, or a larger portion go unpaid.

This is bad for everyone and will only increase disfunction and poverty amongst graduates
 
Amuses me that ALP and current generations are acused of stealing from future generations but the same people think gonski, structurall providing direct education funding increases for future generations is also bad ?

again different issues

I am all for better education and better disability care. That is why I am anti Gonski and anti NDIS.

The federal government should simply hand over the funds to the states rather than duplicating or double handling these portfolios. Both are disasters.
 
There are proposals to lower the threshold, increase interest and deregulation will increase cost substantially. This could lead to a situation where debts either take decades to pay off, or a larger portion go unpaid.

This is bad for everyone and will only increase disfunction and poverty amongst graduates

Finally you are catching on again.

poverty amongst graduates? the liability is a contingent liability meaning nothing has to be paid off until they start earning. So there is no poverty.

I wonder how much university graduates earn more than non grads? I dare say real university courses end up earning significantly more than non grads (unless the non grad owns their own business).


I trust you're just young?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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poverty amongst graduates? the liability is a contingent liability meaning nothing has to be paid off until they start earning. So there is no poverty.
This is incorrect. If the threshold is lowered, 35k with dependants and a home loan could cause excessive financial burden.

It will also discourage students from persuing critical, but low paying jobs, like medical research, thus potentially creating skills shortages.

It's a terrible idea and no one who believes in greater social equity, or decreasing the debt burden on younger generations would support it.
 
This is incorrect. If the threshold is lowered, 35k with dependants and a home loan could cause excessive financial burden.

It will also discourage students from persuing critical, but low paying jobs, like medical research, thus potentially creating skills shortages.

It's a terrible idea and no one who believes in greater social equity, or decreasing the debt burden on younger generations would support it.

a university degree that results in a $35k cap on wages is not a degree worth pursuing unless you are comfortable living in poverty. What degree has this $35k cap?
 
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