Australian of the Year Rosie Batty

[teknodeejay]

Username?
Team o choice?
Person in avatar?

Not really nothing...but

Created 10 years ago. And even then, so what? It's a fabulous username.

One of the greatest captains of all time.

The most successful VFL/AFL club of all time.

Still not seeing any idiotic choices...

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

You're either being obnoxious or you're stupid.

You are unable or unwilling to explain what you meant by "this is someone who has basked in something they contributed to".

On face value, that statement is simply stupid.

Im sure if you grow the nuts required to explain it, a bigoted and narrow intellect will present itself, Im sure.

 

[teknodeejay]

You are unable or unwilling to explain what you meant by "this is someone who has basked in something they contributed to".

On face value, that statement is simply stupid.

Im sure if you grow the nuts required to explain it, a bigoted and narrow intellect will present itself, Im sure.

Seriously. I explained my reasoning earlier. Perhaps you just missed it. You certainly don't know what bigoted means, seeing as I commended the other three FEMALE winners. You're grinding your axe on the wrong whetstone, boy.

 

[B4Bear]

A depressing but usual slide into mediocrity for this thread.

For those of you blaming this poor woman, shame on you. Did she wield the bat and knife that murdered her son? Obviously not, her son, and by extension herself are the victims here. Not the piece of crap that murdered an innocent child.

If you take issue with 'all men being labeled' over this blight on our society, then your willful blindness is part of the problem, and not part of the solution. For those like FACTS and figures, from Department of Families, Housing and Community Affairs:

The vast majority of dangerous, abusive and violent behavior that occurs in the privacy of people's homes is committed by men against women. The most recent information on violence in Australia comes from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, Personal Safety Survey (national survey of 16,400 adults in Australian aged 18 years and over) conducted in 2005. The first issue of this survey was conducted in 1996. The 2005 survey found:

• Just under half a million Australian women reported that they had experienced physical or sexual violence or sexual assault in the past 12 months.

• More than a million women had experienced physical or sexual assault by their male current or ex-partner since the age of 15 (some women may be counted twice if they experienced both physical and sexual assault).

• 37.8% of women who experienced physical assault in the 12 months before the survey said the perpetrator was a current or previous male partner and 34.4% said the perpetrator was a male family member or friend. Most incidences of physical assault against women in the 12 months prior to 2005 were committed in a home (64.1%).

• 33.3% of women had experienced physical violence since the age of 15.

• 19.1% of women had experienced sexual violence since the age of 15.

• 12.4% of women had been sexually abused before the age of 15, compared with 4.5% of men, between 1996 and 2005. There was an increase in the reporting of sexual assault to police from 14.9% to 18.9% between 1996 and 2005 and there was an increase in the reporting of physical violence to police from 18.5% to 36%.

• 64% of women who experienced physical assault and 81.1% of women who experienced sexual assault still did not report it to police. The proportion of women aged between 18 and 34 who reported experiencing physical violence has decreased but the proportion of women who reported experiencing physical violence after 45 increased over the same period. The percentage of women who reported that their children had witnessed partner-related violence either from a current or ex-partner was lower than in 1996.

• The majority of violence against men is committed by other men. Of men who reported that they had experienced physical violence in the 12 months before the survey, 73.7% said that the perpetrator was a male.

The survey is 10 years old, but I suspect that similar figures would be produced today.

It is, and has long been acknowledged that women and children are in the MAJORITY for being victims, and that the MAJORITY of the violence comes from males. This is not an either/or situation when it comes to a response, it is not unlike mens' complaints that Breast Cancer Research takes a back seat to Prostate Cancer research, why can't we have both?

Domestic violence, like institutional child abuse (and in my mind they are very closely linked, as they are all bout power and domination of a victim(s)) is the evil that has not been spoken about in this country since forever. I hope that the Victorian Royal Commission into this issue, and note it mentions neither gender helps shine a light and offer workable solutions.

The Chief Of Army, Major General Morrison has come out very strongly on the issue of how Army, and society in general treat women. And woe behold anyone under his command who fails to meet his standards; that is leadership and the only response to be expected in my book.

I am sure that Rosie Batty would rather have her Luke back than this award. However, this award has helped improve the awareness threshold for the country on domestic violence, regardless of gender; and that can only be a good thing.

I will leave you with a piece by Helen Garner, whose prose makes this story all the more poingant.

http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2014/october/1412085600/helen-garner/mother-courage

 

[kfc1]

What is the percentage or number of males who experienced physical or sexual violence? I note you left that out

I disagree that DV hasnt been spoken about forever. Even 10+ years ago there were extensive media campaigns - "violence against women, australia says no"

 

[telsor]

What is the percentage or number of males who experienced physical or sexual violence? I note you left that out

That's because the answer doesn't fit the desired result. Far better to just call it the 'vast majority' and pretend that it's a irrelevant detail.

Here's what it actually found.

"since the age of 15, some 15 per cent of women (1 135 500) and five per cent of men (367 300) had experienced violence from a former partner". So about 24% are male victims, hardly an irrelevant factor.

Of course, that's the 2005 survey (the survey is actually called the ABS personal safety survey)...There has been one since, in 2012.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4906.0Chapter7002012

Overall, it had similar results. Of over 15s, 16.9% of women and 5.3% of men had experienced partner violence (partner being someone they've lived with, violence being physical). So roughly the same rate. However when you get into current partners (2.7% Vs 1.4%) and last 12 months (1.5% Vs 0.6%) the rates get worse for men, quite likely because women have far more options for getting out of such relationships.

The numbers are also closer when emotional abuse is considered (25% Vs 14%).


Sure, women are more likely to be the victims, but the point is that male victims make up a significant minority and deserve better than to be ignored or dismissed as an irrelevance.

 

[cartwright]

That's because the answer doesn't fit the desired result. Far better to just call it the 'vast majority' and pretend that it's a irrelevant detail.

Here's what it actually found.

"since the age of 15, some 15 per cent of women (1 135 500) and five per cent of men (367 300) had experienced violence from a former partner". So about 24% are male victims, hardly an irrelevant factor.

Of course, that's the 2005 survey (the survey is actually called the ABS personal safety survey)...There has been one since, in 2012.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4906.0Chapter7002012

Overall, it had similar results. Of over 15s, 16.9% of women and 5.3% of men had experienced partner violence (partner being someone they've lived with, violence being physical). So roughly the same rate. However when you get into current partners (2.7% Vs 1.4%) and last 12 months (1.5% Vs 0.6%) the rates get worse for me, quite likely because women have far more options for getting out of such relationships.

The numbers are also closer when emotional abuse is considered (25% Vs 14%).


Sure, women are more likely to be the victims, but the point is that male victims make up a significant minority and deserve better than to be ignored or dismissed as an irrelevance.

I think women are being focused on, mostly because (in NSW alone), in one year 23 women died at the hands of their partner. Homicide rates for NSW are declining... except for domestic homicide, which is increasing..... and before the nutters interject, I am not dismissing male victims, I am looking at the issue from a perspective of how/where funding is placed, due to these factors.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/25AF91125718ADF1CA257C3D000D856A?opendocument

Persons who had never told anyone about partner violence:

Current Partner

• An estimated 64,700 men (54% of the 119,600 men who had experience current partner violence) had never told anyone about the violence by their current partner.
• An estimated 60,800 women (26% of the 237,100 women who had experienced current partner violence) had never told anyone about the violence by their current partner.

^^ that is a significant figure for both genders. I think we've discussed this before

 

[telsor]

I think women are being focused on, mostly because (in NSW alone), in one year 23 women died at the hands of their partner. Homicide rates for NSW are declining... except for domestic homicide, which is increasing..... and before the nutters interject, I am not dismissing male victims, I am looking at the issue from a perspective of how/where funding is placed, due to these factors.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/25AF91125718ADF1CA257C3D000D856A?opendocument

Persons who had never told anyone about partner violence:

Current Partner

• An estimated 64,700 men (54% of the 119,600 men who had experience current partner violence) had never told anyone about the violence by their current partner.
• An estimated 60,800 women (26% of the 237,100 women who had experienced current partner violence) had never told anyone about the violence by their current partner.

^^ that is a significant figure for both genders. I think we've discussed this before

The reporting rate is what you'd expect unfortunately. With Rape, under reporting is often a factor of if the person thinks they'd be believed, blamed or shamed in making the report. I would assume similar factors are at play here.

As for deaths, I didn't find a definitive source, but did find one site that seems legit (they're referring largely to the 2012 ABS study, although I didn't see this stat in there) that says 75 men had died from domestic violence in Australia from 2008-2010 (it then says one every 10 days, so I assume they mean that as a 2 year period), which makes up 38.7% of DV deaths, so by extension, a higher % of male DV victims are killed than female DV victims (while still lower in absolute terms of course).

I can't help but think that this is, in part, due to the lack of recognition and options afforded to male victims.

 

[Maggie5]

The reporting rate is what you'd expect unfortunately. With Rape, under reporting is often a factor of if the person thinks they'd be believed, blamed or shamed in making the report. I would assume similar factors are at play here.

As for deaths, I didn't find a definitive source, but did find one site that seems legit (they're referring largely to the 2012 ABS study, although I didn't see this stat in there) that says 75 men had died from domestic violence in Australia from 2008-2010 (it then says one every 10 days, so I assume they mean that as a 2 year period), which makes up 38.7% of DV deaths, so by extension, a higher % of male DV victims are killed than female DV victims (while still lower in absolute terms of course).

I can't help but think that this is, in part, due to the lack of recognition and options afforded to male victims.

Do these DV figures include deaths like brother against brother or son against parents for monetary gain?

 

[Ruck Machine]

A depressing but usual slide into mediocrity for this thread....

I notice how your stats fail to include the Male Suidcide rate. Would be very interested to see how many men kill them selves due to domestic abuse.

 

[telsor]

Do these DV figures include deaths like brother against brother or son against parents for monetary gain?

As I said, I'm uncertain of the source for the male deaths. I assume from their use of the ABS figures elsewhere that it comes from there, but I didn't see it there (I haven't read the whole thing though).

The use of comparative stats (38.7% of domestic homicides were male) certainly suggests a common source/methodology.

BTW...You left out same sex couples (although I recall reading that they have similar rates to hetrosexual couples).


BTW, this was the site.
http://www.oneinthree.com.au/infographic

 

[telsor]

I notice how your stats fail to include the Male Suidcide rate. Would be very interested to see how many men kill them selves due to domestic abuse.

One of the problems with suicide is that the reasons are often unclear. Even if a note is left, depressed people tend not to be entirely rational about the hows and whys (although some, like me, are quite the opposite and hyper rational). I'm sure there are some for whom this would be a part of the reason.

 

[Maggie5]

As I said, I'm uncertain of the source for the male deaths. I assume from their use of the ABS figures elsewhere that it comes from there, but I didn't see it there (I haven't read the whole thing though).

The use of comparative stats (38.7% of domestic homicides were male) certainly suggests a common source/methodology.

BTW...You left out same sex couples (although I recall reading that they have similar rates to hetrosexual couples).


BTW, this was the site.
http://www.oneinthree.com.au/infographic

Yes, good point, I did forget about that.
Would be interesting to get these figures, surely the police would have them.
DV is more than just partners and more than physical violence, psychological can also leave scars.

 

[BORK]

A depressing but usual slide into mediocrity for this thread.

The vast majority of dangerous, abusive and violent behavior that occurs in the privacy of people's homes is committed by men against women. The most recent information on violence in Australia comes from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, Personal Safety Survey (national survey of 16,400 adults in Australian aged 18 years and over) conducted in 2005. The first issue of this survey was conducted in 1996. The 2005 survey found:

That first statement is worded very poorly as the survey used to support it does not seem to include the abuse of children.

Some Australian government publications divide the types of maltreatment of children into emotional abuse, neglect, physical abuse and sexual abuse. The only one of those types that men are shown to do at clearly higher rates than women is sexual abuse. This form of abuse forms the smallest percentage of the four types of maltreatment mentioned. Mothers(Women) commit a clear majority of the emotional abuse and neglect of children. Those two areas form to thirds of the total cases of child maltreatment. Mothers are even beginning to take over fathers in the total percentage of physical abuse of children(this area is pretty close to 50/50).

These rates should not surprise as mothers are more likely to be responsible for the care of their children.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

This thread is in serious danger of turning into reasoned, rational debate.

 

[telsor]

Yes, good point, I did forget about that.
Would be interesting to get these figures, surely the police would have them.
DV is more than just partners and more than physical violence, psychological can also leave scars.

They refer to ABS/AIC figures (AIC = Australian Institute of Criminology), but I've never seen AIC figures, and their use of that reference suggests the ABS figures were derived in conjunction with AIC, not in addition to (I'm guessing, but it seems a reasonable assumption).

Yes, DV is more than just physical, and as I mentioned before, the ABS stats show the rate of male victims is relatively higher in emotional abuse cases.

The ABS physical violence stats do specify that they refer to 'partners' (specified as, lived with in a married or de facto relationship), and excludes boyfriend/girlfriend/date cases, so I would think that domestic homicides would be worked out in a similar manner, but again, that's an assumption on my part.

 

[telsor]

This thread is in serious danger of turning into reasoned, rational debate.

Oops

Better change that before the mods see it and think we're adults.

You're a big doodoo head!

 

[BORK]

This thread is in serious danger of turning into reasoned, rational debate.

Don't worry. A certain poster will be back soon with some nuggets of gold like these.

(Context someone escaping potentially abusive and violent behavior and avoiding being stuck in a situation where they are forced to defend themselves)

If you have to run to a pub to escape 'the missus', you are a pretty inadequate bloke.

(Ignorance displayed about what it is like to be in an abusive relationship possibly trapped by worrying about the safety of your children with their mother if you were the father and knew you custody chances were slim ETC)

If I had to piss off to a pub to escape a partner all the time, Id have the cajones to end that relationship.

 

[cartwright]

The reporting rate is what you'd expect unfortunately. With Rape, under reporting is often a factor of if the person thinks they'd be believed, blamed or shamed in making the report. I would assume similar factors are at play here.

As for deaths, I didn't find a definitive source, but did find one site that seems legit (they're referring largely to the 2012 ABS study, although I didn't see this stat in there) that says 75 men had died from domestic violence in Australia from 2008-2010 (it then says one every 10 days, so I assume they mean that as a 2 year period), which makes up 38.7% of DV deaths, so by extension, a higher % of male DV victims are killed than female DV victims (while still lower in absolute terms of course).

I can't help but think that this is, in part, due to the lack of recognition and options afforded to male victims.

As Maggie queried, whether this is domestic, as in partner on partner killing. (the stat for women explicitly states "by her partner")

In any case, it highlights that there is far too much violence in our society.

EDIT: Just saw your response to Maggie. Thanks.

 

[telsor]

Don't worry. A certain poster will be back soon with some nuggets of gold like these.

There is plenty of crap that comes in from both sides. Let's face it, as bad (if not worse) could probably be found from tesseract.

 

[cartwright]

Don't worry. A certain poster will be back soon with some nuggets of gold like these.

(Context someone escaping potentially abusive and violent behavior and avoiding being stuck in a situation where they are forced to defend themselves)


(Ignorance displayed about what it is like to be in an abusive relationship possibly trapped by worrying about the safety of your children with their mother if you were the father and knew you custody chances were slim ETC)

I do not believe that was the context... anyway... would be great if this could actually stay on topic, for more than one page.

 

[telsor]

As Maggie queried, whether this is domestic, as in partner on partner killing. (the stat for women explicitly states "by her partner")

In any case, it highlights that there is far too much violence in our society.

As I said, I assume from source/context that it is, but can't say so categorically.

There is, and my only desire from all this is to have male victims acknowledged and for some of the efforts to reduce it to be put towards them. I'm not suggesting it's equal or anything like that, but if 1 in 3 victims is male, can we please, as a start, have even 10% of the funding and be mentioned in the statements about the issue? Actually, I'd like for a lot of the funding to be 'shared'...Tackle domestic violence as a whole, acknowledging all situations, including same sex, with specific programs branching off from that.

 

[cartwright]

As I said, I assume from source/context that it is, but can't say so categorically.

There is, and my only desire from all this is to have male victims acknowledged and for some of the efforts to reduce it to be put towards them. I'm not suggesting it's equal or anything like that, but if 1 in 3 victims is male, can we please, as a start, have even 10% of the funding and be mentioned in the statements about the issue? Actually, I'd like for a lot of the funding to be 'shared'...Tackle domestic violence as a whole, acknowledging all situations, including same sex, with specific programs branching off from that.

Yeah, sorry I went back and edited my post. Just saw your response to Maggie.

Do we know what % of funding is proportioned to assisting male victims?

 

[B4Bear]

As I said, I assume from source/context that it is, but can't say so categorically.

There is, and my only desire from all this is to have male victims acknowledged and for some of the efforts to reduce it to be put towards them. I'm not suggesting it's equal or anything like that, but if 1 in 3 victims is male, can we please, as a start, have even 10% of the funding and be mentioned in the statements about the issue? Actually, I'd like for a lot of the funding to be 'shared'...Tackle domestic violence as a whole, acknowledging all situations, including same sex, with specific programs branching off from that.

Totally agree. But this does not excuse the vile slurs against this poor woman or the deflection of it into some of the
misogynistic attacks that have occured because she is a woman.

No one defends the abuse of males by females, but downplaying the abuse of females/children by males is sheer ignorance.

Would males on here be so quick to attack this person if it had been their grandson that had been murdered?

 

[telsor]

Yeah, sorry I went back and edited my post. Just saw your response to Maggie.

Do we know what % of funding is proportioned to assisting male victims?

I'm not aware of any.

The recent government push on it was all about women and children, as was the 2011 'national program'.

As Maggie queried, whether this is domestic, as in partner on partner killing. (the stat for women explicitly states "by her partner")

Have you got a source for this stat? (I've been looking, but can't find it...Plenty of references to it though...I'm hoping the source might have a male equivalent/comparison).