Australia's 'lack of good manners'?

Sep 23, 2007
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Yes, it's an interesting one, but I suppose it's from the outside looking in. Those of us who watch domestic cricket and the Big Bash in particular realize Australian players are just as nasty to each other, from Brad Hogg telling batsmen to 'f--k off' to Brett Lee doing the same. Even Shane Warne called Gilchrist the selector's arselicker, something which Adam admitted cut him deeply to this day. So the lack of good manners is not reserved for international opponents alone.
 

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I still recall 'Spanky' Roebuck's absurd reaction to the spiteful Sydney Test against India back in 2007-08, when he was so offended by Australia's behaviour that he called for Ricky Ponting to be sacked as captain. Read it again if you've forgotten. That would have been good for a laugh if that had been the end of it. Sadly, quite a few dickheads got dragged along for the ride. And now we have a whiff of that with Greg Baum's piece in the Fairfax press today.

It must have been dictated using one of those electronic voiceboxes that Stephen Hawking uses because I'm pretty sure Mr Baum was stroking his chin while simultaneously tearing the ears off his micro-penis while compiling this piece of s**t.

Look at how absurdly overwrought the whole thing is. Australia's WC victory was somehow diminished by some tepid sledging? Seriously? Oh, 'a stain on the cup', because Australia gave a couple of gentle send-offs. Please, fetch me the smelling salts. I feel a little giddy.

Australia play combative cricket. That's how it is. It's part of the arsenal. As long as it doesn't tip over into vilification or something that produces an unfair advantage, no one associated with Australian cricket should ever apologise for it. The Kiwis, to their credit, don't seem to have any complaints so where does this ridiculous hand-wringing come from?

To begin with, this notion that Australia are the only team who says anything salty on the field needs to be dispelled. Australia are just the most conspicuous because the swagger is integral to them playing winning cricket. It's easier to dismiss it when England do it because it's clearly just false bravado designed to compensate for the fact they're s**t. But with, Australia, the aggression and bullishness isn't just pantomime confidence and, apparently, that makes it unpalatable.

Well, hard cheese. How do these people stand watching AFL or either rugby code? Sometimes players even push each other. My goodness – they make beasts of themselves! How many ways did Hawthorn 'stain the premiership cup' last season?

Within one day of Australia having a world champion cricket team, there's this little nub of people already trying to diminsh the achievement because of 'the manner in which they won', as though they bowled underarm or tampered with the ball. It's professional sport, you dickheads! You're allowed to bully your opponent if they let you. But if winning a World Cup was as easy as telling the batsman he's s**t, everyone would do it. The reality is that sledging is a complete sideshow and has little or no effect on the result.

The Ashes are coming up. I hope Australia go over and pull England to pieces in the most hostile, most aggressive way possible, ending several careers and decimating the entire administration and senior leadership. I hope we burn their house down and leave a really nasty taste in their pouty little mouths. They've spent the last 18 months in a long, languid circle-jerk of incompetence while their tame gimp press try to find a silver lining in a pile of s**t. They deserve nothing less than abject humiliation. Then, as is standard, we'll be treated to the familiar refrain of how 'Australians have no class'. Like that's an insult coming from England, whose entire cricketing culture is built on the idea of class and the establishment knowing best – and is eternally neutered as a result. Let's have another cucumber sandwich and discuss who won the competition of manners while quietly covering up a paedo ring.

In the meantime, Australia should bask in having a champion side again. And Baum should be locked away in a dark little room with only the echoes of 'Spanky' Roebuck's heavy breathing, sexually repressed indignation and sweaty, self-loathing Englishness for company.

The uncharitable might say that "absurdly overwrought" could also describe this post, entertaining though it is to read. If it represents the majority view then I can certainly understand why there is such negative response to any adverse comment about the boorish behavior of the Australian cricket team, which ever since Ian Chappell's day continues to plumb the depths of unsporting behavior with its abusive culture aka sledging.

Australia has nothing left to prove in international cricket and has a fantastic winning record. It sets the benchmark. If others sledge then it is an example of imitation being the sincerest form of flattery. To say otherwise is just an asinine tu quoque defence my 10 year old grandson might use. It can get to the stage when it becomes a complete turn-off, as evidenced by many ex-fans of the NBL, due to the ghetto trash talk. It never used to be like that.

I enjoy it when Australia wins, but I would enjoy it so much more if they won with a bit of (if I can use this word) class...

PS I'll go get my flak jacket and helmet. ;)
 
Dec 20, 2014
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I can certainly understand why there is such negative response to any adverse comment about the boorish behavior of the Australian cricket team, which ever since Ian Chappell's day continues to plumb the depths of unsporting behavior with its abusive culture aka sledging.
Do you think Australia are alone in sledging?

Australia has nothing left to prove in international cricket and has a fantastic winning record. It sets the benchmark. If others sledge then it is an example of imitation being the sincerest form of flattery. To say otherwise is just an asinine tu quoque defence my 10 year old grandson might use.
What's that? Australia 'started it'?

I'd say that's pretty asinine.

What exactly do Australia do that offends your delicate sensibilities?
 

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What's that? Australia 'started it'?

I'd say that's pretty asinine.

What exactly do Australia do that offends your delicate sensibilities?

"Do you think Australia are alone in sledging?". No - but see my tu quoque comment [hint: you may want to look up its meaning].

"Australia 'started it'?" Where did I say Australia started it?

I don't have any "delicate sensibilities", but I can recognize boorish behaviour when I see it.

It seems you have some comprehension issues, so I'll let you have the last word.
 
Dec 20, 2014
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"Do you think Australia are alone in sledging?". No - but see my tu quoque comment
A tu quoque response would be for me to question your behaviour and whether it's in accordance with criticism you've offered. Or Baum's. The clue is in the translation of the phrase i.e. 'you too' or 'you also' – it's a fallacious way of asserting hypocrisy through false equivalence. I haven't done that. Maybe you used the phrase wrong, champ.

My question is, if you don't think Australia are alone in sledging, then is it not absurd for Australia to be singled out for it?

"Australia 'started it'?" Where did I say Australia started it?
Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery?

Australia started it and everyone else just followed.

I don't have any "delicate sensibilities", but I can recognize boorish behaviour when I see it.
Why dodge the question? What exactly do Australia do that is unacceptable?

And if other sides do it, then – if that is a problem – isn't it just 'a problem with cricket', instead of 'a problem with Australia'?
 
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A tu quoque response would be for me to question your behaviour and whether it's in accordance with criticism you've offered. The clue is in the translation of the phrase i.e. 'you too' or 'you also' – it's a fallacious way of asserting hypocrisy through false equivalnce. I haven't done that. Nor am I offering a tu quoque response to Mr Baum.

My question is, if you don't think Australia are alone in sledging, then is it not absurd for Australia to be singled out for it?

Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery?

Sounds like Australia started it and everyone else just followed? That's not what you're saying?

Why dodge the question?

What exactly do Australia do that is unacceptable?

And if other sides do it, then – if that is a problem – isn't it just 'a problem with cricket', instead of 'a problem with Australia'?

Seeing you have gone to the trouble of more adequately dealing with my comments, I reply as follows:

1. The Latin phrase is taken to mean - others do it too [ I am fully aware of the literal translation as I can read Latin quite well]. You in your post have said or implied that others sledge as well. See also my comment about my 10 year old grandson. Basically, it means - I don't care what the other kids do - that is no excuse for you to do it also.
2. Re imitation etc - I have not dodged the question - I have answered it. If you don't like the answer then so be it.
3. What exactly does Australia do that is unacceptable? - I answered this also. I guess it's a bit like the country policemen saying to the owner of the new local art gallery "I can't describe pornography, but I know it when I see it". But if you want an example, some may think that an Australian Test captain threatening to break an opponent's arm (via the bowler) is unacceptable. Barnyard wit seems to get a pass, though.
 
Dec 20, 2014
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You in your post have said or implied that others sledge as well. See also my comment about my 10 year old grandson. Basically, it means - I don't care what the other kids do - that is no excuse for you to do it also.
So we agree that Australia are far from alone in sledging.

Explain to me then, instructions to your grandson aside, why it is reasonable to single Australia out for the practice.

Listen, you can by all means say that all of this stuff that goes on on-field is terrible and no one should be doing it. If that's your view. But you can't only complain about Australian behaviour and ignore everyone else. That is not a consistent or fair-minded critique.

But if you want an example, some may think that an Australian Test captain threatening to break an opponent's arm (via the bowler) is unacceptable.
What's wrong with that?

Again, you single out the Australian without any mention of Anderson's role in that exchange. You might say that doesn't excuse Clarke but it does reflect a lack of balance if you only criticise one party.

Also, this thread was started in response to criticism about Australia's behaviour during the World Cup. What did they do during the World Cup that was unacceptable?
 
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deltablues

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So we agree that Australia are far from alone in sledging.

Explain to me then, instructions to your grandson aside, why it is reasonable to single Australia out for the practice.

Listen, you can by all means say that all of this stuff that goes on on-field is terrible and no one should be doing it. If that's your view. But you can't only complain about Australian behaviour and ignore everyone else. That is not a consistent or fair-minded critique.

What's wrong with that?

Again, you single out the Australian without any mention of Anderson's role in that exchange. You might say that doesn't excuse Clarke but it does reflect a lack of balance if you only criticise one party.

Also, this thread was started in response to criticism about Australia's behaviour during the World Cup. What did they do during the World Cup that was unacceptable?
I think the points I have made speak for themselves and I am not getting down into the weeds on this any further.
 
Dec 20, 2014
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I think the points I have made speak for themselves and I am not getting down into the weeds on this any further.
You mentioned the sledging episode from two years ago against England. What occurred during the World Cup that was so unacceptable?

If you accept that Australia are not alone in sledging, then how is it reasonable to single them out for the practice?
 
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But if you want an example, some may think that an Australian Test captain threatening to break an opponent's arm (via the bowler) is unacceptable. Barnyard wit seems to get a pass, though.

So we just ignore that the person clarke said that too had just told a smiling test rookie(bailey) that he was going to smash his teeth in?
 
You mentioned the sledging episode from two years ago against England. What occurred during the World Cup that was so unacceptable?

If you accept that Australia are not alone in sledging, then how is it reasonable to single them out for the practice?
So because other countries do it that's good enough? We shouldn't strive to be a leader at all?
 
Dec 20, 2014
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So because other countries do it that's good enough?
Frankly, I have no problem with the practice whatsoever. So sure. It's absolutely 'good enough' if you're asking me.

The point is that those who do have a problem with the practice shouldn't single out one country for criticism when the practice is more widespread. That doesn't acknowledge the reality of the situation.

We shouldn't strive to be a leader at all?
I don't know what that means.
 
Frankly, I have no problem with the practice whatsoever. So sure. It's absolutely 'good enough' if you're asking me.

The point is that those who do have a problem with the practice shouldn't single out one country for criticism when the practice is more widespread. That doesn't acknowledge the reality of the situation.

I don't know what that means.
Why not? Australia is the country they support. The team that represents them. So of course their actions are of more interest than some county side in Leicester.

I've always disliked sledging. It strikes me as something children do. You're adults. Shut the * up and play the game. If you're not good enough to win without hurling abuse at the opposition then clear off for someone who is.
 
Jan 26, 2006
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So because other countries do it that's good enough? We shouldn't strive to be a leader at all?

It's a cricket game. There is no reason to hold one team to a higher standard than the others.

Interestingly half the media pushing this angle were the same people having a go at Australia when Harbhajan racially abused Andrew Symonds.
 
Dec 20, 2014
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So unless we talk about issues on a macro scale there's no point in talking about them at all?
You have a weird habit of rephrasing arguments as unlettered rhetorical questions. I'm not sure why you think this is effective.

If you dislike sledging, that's fine. But don't limit your critique to one team. You don't get to single out one team for their conduct without making even the barest acknowledgement that this conduct is, in fact, quite common at international level. That amounts to a distortion and is, frankly, dishonest.

It would be like if all AFL teams were taking Thymosin Beta 4 but you decided to criticise only Essendon.
 
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You have a weird habit of rephrasing arguments as unlettered rhetorical questions. I'm not sure why you think this is effective.

If you dislike sledging, that's fine. But don't limit your critique to one team. You don't get to single out one team for their conduct without making even the barest acknowledgement that this conduct is, in fact, quite common at international level. That amounts to a distortion and is, frankly, dishonest.

It would be like if all AFL teams were taking Thymosin Beta 4 but you decided to criticise only Essendon.
I don't. But living in Australia, naturally my knowledge of them is much higher. My awareness. I watch them play much more than any other side, read about them, hear about them and so forth. So naturally, I'm going to talk about them when I bring up examples and the like.

But, at the same time, just because other teams do something "distasteful" isn't justification. Nothing is stopping the Australian cricket team from pulling their heads in.
 
Dec 20, 2014
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I don't. But living in Australia, naturally my knowledge of them is much higher. My awareness. I watch them play much more than any other side, read about them, hear about them and so forth. So naturally, I'm going to talk about them when I bring up examples and the like.
So you're simply 'not aware' of any other team sledging or giving send-offs?

Come on. Don't pee on my back and tell me it's raining.

But, at the same time, just because other teams do something "distasteful" isn't justification.
Rather, it's vital context that should be included in any fair-minded commentary.

Nothing is stopping the Australian cricket team from pulling their heads in.
Why should they?
 
So you're simply 'not aware' of any other team sledging or giving send-offs?

Come on. Don't pee on my back and tell me it's raining.

Rather, it's vital context that should be included in any fair-minded commentary.

Why should they?
Where did I say I wasn't aware? I said I'm more aware of incidents involving Australia; ie Warner's "speak English" comments or Clarke v Steyn.

And I think they should because, as I said, I view sledging as childish and unnecessary.
 
Dec 20, 2014
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Where did I say I wasn't aware? I said I'm more aware of incidents involving Australia; ie Warner's "speak English" comments or Clarke v Steyn.
So you should be willing to present a broad critique rather than singling out Australia simply 'because you live there'.

And I think they should because, as I said, I view sledging as childish and unnecessary.
Do you object to AFL players sledging each other?
 
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