Where is Roman Reigns at?

[NitroFan]

i dunno...the point is ridiculous, but i kind of like reigns saying that. at least he's not too far down the smiley happy "everyone can have their opinion yay wwe universe" path just yet.

 

[Damon_3388]

Cena is another good example. He would have been turned heel or had his character revamped if this was late 97 (which there is definitely money in). Instead he maintains his dreadfully stale goody two shoes face persona.

Is there a way to change Cena, to turn him heel, that would make him an actual hateable heel at this point? If people want to see him change, and are happy to see him turn heel, what real reason is there for them to hate him?

 

[The Casey Cat]

Is there a way to change Cena, to turn him heel, that would make him an actual hateable heel at this point? If people want to see him change, and are happy to see him turn heel, what real reason is there for them to hate him?

How did you make The Rock more hateable in 97? Not about the question of how to make him more hateable but more about going with the direction of the audience and then embracing it as opposed to stupidly and stubbornly fighting it.

And yes there is a way. You have him come out and say "I'm sick of busting my balls to be your hero bla bla bla only to here Cena sucks everywhere. #### you all! I'm now about C-na, the C-nation can kiss my @$$." Have him join The Authority, start picking on Bryan, Ziggler, etc. for being popular.

The opportunity was BADLY missed last year to gradually switch Cena and Wyatt. He was voted by the network (result may have been nonsense) to face all 3 of the Wyatt family. What better opportunity was there to have him come out the next week and say "I'm tired of you all get stuffed!"

Was very similar to Austin v Hart in 97. The difference now is how stubborn, ignorant and 'safe' the WWE run story lines and personas.

 

[Cleavy]

Is there a way to change Cena, to turn him heel, that would make him an actual hateable heel at this point? If people want to see him change, and are happy to see him turn heel, what real reason is there for them to hate him?

should have done it during the Nexus and made him a cold blooded mercenary.

But the modern times of having "cool heels" complicates matters

 

[TradeDraft]

should have done it during the Nexus and made him a cold blooded mercenary.

But the modern times of having "cool heels" complicates matters

So Cena should of been the NXT Leader and not CM Punk?

 

[Cleavy]

So Cena should of been the NXT Leader and not CM Punk?

Barrett still leader, with Cena his lieutenant (something like that)

 

[NitroFan]

the week has been a bit stressful on the poor bloke...

 

[E92_]

The *? I refuse to believe that's him.

Nitofn pls

 

[PVF]

Lol it's the bass player for Metallica.

 

[Ry009]

Would make a ripper short term meme that pic though.

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

not everyone likes short people that kick,

Somebody here finally gets it. And you're right, this wrestlemania will be far more popular than last year because those are two huge matches that everyone wants to see. Would only take two other good matches to make it a really great wrestlemania.

 

[workhorse]

Somebody here finally gets it. And you're right, this wrestlemania will be far more popular than last year because those are two huge matches that everyone wants to see. Would only take two other good matches to make it a really great wrestlemania.

Do they really though?

Sting vs Triple H is definitely a massive draw, no doubting that, but I'd say it's got nothing to do with people wanting Triple H to face Sting, but rather the fact basically the biggest star left from the Attitude Era thats yet to compete in WWE will finally appear at WrestleMania. It could've been anyone vs. Sting; Taker, Rollins, Cena, Wyatt - Sting is still the big draw.

As far as Reigns vs Lesnar goes. Really? Is it really the match "everyone wants to see?" Daniel Bryan is a bigger known star to the casuals than Roman Reigns. Bryan's more popular with the fans than Reigns. I hate Daniel Bryan marks who think he's invincible. Hate them. But he's the guy that most people want to see. He's an established star and really only second to Cena in that regard (maybe Randy but he's still not been seen for whatever reason). Cena's had 3 go's at Lesnar's title, Bryan beat Cena originally for the title and never got his rematch - logic would say he's challenging for the title.

This whole situation has become a big f***** bitch fight because people who don't like Bryan will get behind anyone that Bryan fans think has 'undeservadly taken his spot' and Bryan fans will sh*t on anyone in the spot that they think he should be in. I wish they could've just had Rollins enter himself in the Rumble and win it. Yeah he's got Money in the Bank but it's something we've never seen (Money in the bank/Royal Rumble at the same time) and in my opinion Seth deserves it after the work he's done and goes along with the push he's had and his character of being almost Edge like in the ultimate opportunist/heel who'll do whatver it takes type of guy.

Anyway, I've tried to stay as neutral as I can on this whole thing. If you asked me in terms of Reigns vs Bryan as to who I'd rather see face Lesnar, I'd say Bryan. Not because I'm an IWC-indy-darling-midget lover sheep, but because it's more logical storyline wise, he's more established, better in the ring, on the mic and more popular (at the moment). Reigns is still only 29, yeah not the youngest, but has just started out his singles career. He needs to be built so people are clammoring for him to win the title - like Bryan last year - so the pay-off is bigger and better than just being thrown into the deep-end. I'd prefer Reigns face Triple H at WrestleMania and get a few more wins before he faces bloody Lesnar in the mainevent of 'Mania for the WWE WHC Title.

Like I said in one of the other threads, I'm happy to see it play out and so should everyone else. Who knows, this time last year people were saying it's going to be the worst 'Mania ever and it turned out quite the opposite. If it turns out to be Reigns vs Lesnar and you hate it, change the channel when they come on, don't watch the mainevent of Mania. If it's Daniel Bryan vs Lesnar and you hate it, do the same thing. Watch the rest of the card and enjoy it.

 

[Ry009]

^ top post.

I can understand if people aren't fans of Bryan, but I think there is enough evidence suggest that Bryan is hotter than Reigns right now and a lot more polished in the ring. Don't think anyone has said Reigns can't get to a higher level. Reigns vs Lesnar does have the capacity to a a big match, but definitely not now.

It depends what tickles your fancy more, big stars and big hype vs good storyline telling and build up to a quality match?

If you take away all the wrestling storytelling from Lesnar/Taker last year and look at match in isolation, that match on it's own was average at best. Even taking into account Taker's injuries.

Wade Keller mentioned this on Austin's podcast and made a really good point, Lesnar is a freak and does amazing things, but he's good only really with decent talent going with him.

As limited as Cena's moveset is, he's a good ring general, but Reigns isn't at the stage where he can lead Lesnar, and Lesnar won't be able to do that with Reigns. Lot of groaning comes from the fact people are concerned that regardless of the crowd reaction, Lesnar/Reigns has the ability to be a real stinker.

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

Put any amount of spin on it you like, but we all know WM31 will draw much more than WM 30.

I don't know how people are going to put negative spin on it after it happens, smarks will cry about something irrelevant even if the show draws more, like the pre show match or the opening match, perhaps there won't be enough shitty kicks.

 

[workhorse]

Put any amount of spin on it you like, but we all know WM31 will draw much more than WM 30.

I don't know how people are going to put negative spin on it after it happens, smarks will cry about something irrelevant even if the show draws more, like the pre show match or the opening match, perhaps there won't be enough shitty kicks.

How can you possibly know that? Firstly the whole network situation makes it near impossible to gauge drawing power. Last year there was about 650k network subscribers and there was about 690k domestic and international PPV buys. So did WM30 draw 1.34mil views? That would make it the most watched ever!

Now there's supposedly 1mil network subscribers, but do all of them actually have active accounts? Do they still use them?

How many of last years subscribers actually watched?

There's so much grey area we'll probably never know truly how many people watch each WrestleMania again.

WrestleMania should be judged on the show itself and how it's perceived by fans, critics and experts. WrestleMania 19 had a terrible buyrate but many believe it's one of the best 'Manias ever. Unless something drastic happens I can't see 31 being more popular than 30. At this stage.

Doesn't matter anyway. Haters and smarks will find ways to justify or defend there point of view regardless of what happens. I just don't understand, you have shown no reason for "everyone" to believe that this year will draw more, yet you're just happy to say it will happen without actually backing it up with any substance.

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

How can you possibly know that? Firstly the whole network situation makes it near impossible to gauge drawing power. Last year there was about 650k network subscribers and there was about 690k domestic and international PPV buys. So did WM30 draw 1.34mil views? That would make it the most watched ever!

Now there's supposedly 1mil network subscribers, but do all of them actually have active accounts? Do they still use them?

How many of last years subscribers actually watched?

There's so much grey area we'll probably never know truly how many people watch each WrestleMania again.

WrestleMania should be judged on the show itself and how it's perceived by fans, critics and experts. WrestleMania 19 had a terrible buyrate but many believe it's one of the best 'Manias ever. Unless something drastic happens I can't see 31 being more popular than 30. At this stage.

Doesn't matter anyway. Haters and smarks will find ways to justify or defend there point of view regardless of what happens. I just don't understand, you have shown no reason for "everyone" to believe that this year will draw more, yet you're just happy to say it will happen without actually backing it up with any substance.

Judging it on opinion is even more of a grey area, could have three matches of the year and someone will think the show was s**t because the results didn't go the way they were hoping.

 

[NitroFan]

Excellent point re: the network making it difficult to truly gauge commercial success

Iirc I asked this question before and didnt get a response, but I would legitimately like to know what criteria people are using to come to the apparently already factually correct conclusion that a reigns led wm will be more successful than a bryan led one

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

I agree it's hard to know, considering the network is available in more countries, i guess you could judge it based on domestic subs and ppv buyrates, maybe in the UK and Canada add the subs to the buyrates?

 

[Ry009]

Just a reminder guys, everyone is fine at the moment, and there's no problem with passion behind posts but please keep in mind to still be respectful to your fellow posters.

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

It depends what tickles your fancy more, big stars and big hype vs good storyline telling and build up to a quality match?

Wrestlemania is built on larger than life stars. Was Hulk Hogan and Mr T. vs Paul Orndorff and Roddy Piper a technical wrestling exhibition? No, but it still won the PWI match of the year because it had excellent identifiable characters that people wanted to see. Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman have that great persona indicative of a wrestling star, with the right build up to mania Reigns could have that too. He has a great presence, look, facial expressions and move set to tell a story and become a character. That's what a great match needs, and Bryan's character doesn't offer that right now.

If you take away all the wrestling storytelling from Lesnar/Taker last year and look at match in isolation, that match on it's own was average at best. Even taking into account Taker's injuries.

This is a really tough one that I backflip on. I actually think the build up to the match was atrocious because it felt no different to any other Taker match. The match itself made Lesnar look the dominant unbeatable machine he is right now, but as you stay that's because of the storytelling from the other 20 Wrestlemania matches and not so much to do with Lesnar.

Filthy Sanchez could have a signed affidavit notarised by a JP from every single wrestling fan stating that they're not interested in Reigns v Lesnar and he'd still continue to claim that it's the match everyone wants to see. The backlash to this match has made the Bootista situation look tame. And Sting would draw if he was going 1 v 1 with Zack Ryder.

The matches that people clearly actually want to see are Bryan v Lesnar and Sting v Undertaker (I think a Shield triple threat would go over very well too, personally), but it looks like neither of those are going to happen.

Again, you think there's such a big backlash because you're only listening to the vocal minority of the internet. Daniel Bryan hasn't transcended the business or become a huge star to the casuals like people think. The casuals still like the classic idea of a wrestler, and Roman fits that build. They like his big power moves, his look and he can engage them in a match. You'd be surprised how chanting "Yes" and "No" during a match can look really stupid and lame to someone who doesn't keep up with the goings on. It's much more palatable to watch a jacked up Samoan take on a legitimate unstoppable freak who beat the Undertaker's streak last year.

I agree with you that Taker vs Sting would be just a big selling point if not more, but Triple H just can't keep himself out of the main spotlight I guess. I'll never forget him ridiculously throwing himself into that match with Bryan and taking all the tension out of the entire show.

 

[Ry009]

Wrestlemania is built on larger than life stars. Was Hulk Hogan and Mr T. vs Paul Orndorff and Roddy Piper a technical wrestling exhibition?

Yeah but but because it was built on that ideology, doesn't mean it should remain that way forever. Times change.

This is a really tough one that I backflip on. I actually think the build up to the match was atrocious because it felt no different to any other Taker match. The match itself made Lesnar look the dominant unbeatable machine he is right now, but as you stay that's because of the storytelling from the other 20 Wrestlemania matches and not so much to do with Lesnar.

That's the problem, you've had two big stars, average build up, and clearly the streak being broken hides the deficiencies. But the match itself was average.

This time again you've got Brock going in with a guy with s**t build up, whilst he has potential is not ready and still very green. Even if you replaced Levi Stadium with the marks to pre teens and their parents, there is still a high probability that match is going to come off very poor on TV.

I agree that the company shouldn't be 100% at the behest of the smark fans, but it's not good for business for tens of thousands of fans shitting on a match on worldwide tv. It needs to be taken into account.

s**t analogy but it's akin to making Tom Scully captain of Melbourne. I actually feel sorry for Reigns because he has the potential but this is going to set him back quite a while.

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

I agree that the company shouldn't be 100% at the behest of the smark fans, but it's not good for business for tens of thousands of fans shitting on a match on worldwide tv. It needs to be taken into account.

See I agree with your logic but I think you go step far by making this assumption that the entire match will be shat on. I get the feeling people are expecting a reaction similar to Lesnar v Goldberg at 20 but I think it's going to be more like Cena vs Triple H at 22. I think the adult fans will cheer for Brock because he's earned respect with the fans for his title run. There will still be enough Roman fans to give it a good 'big fight' atmosphere. Remember Wrestlemania is different again to Royal Rumble. You have a lot of fans travelling who want to enjoy themselves for the sake of it. Yeah they might jeer Reigns but they won't completely be disillusioned with the match entirely because this might be one of their few chances to ever see such a huge wrestling event.

It will be hard to get a current wrestlemania crowd to completely abandon a match like Brock vs Goldberg because they'll never hold a wrestling event in such a small area again.

 

[cheesedogg]

Just a reminder guys, everyone is fine at the moment, and there's no problem with passion behind posts but please keep in mind to still be respectful to your fellow posters.

We're good.

I'm like John Cena and Filthy Sanchez & Damon are like Vocal male audience. We don't always see eye to eye but I respect their passion & right to make some noise because they brought their ticket to BigFooty, & they just respect the s**t out of me because I'm John Cena & they are closet Cenation members

 

[JordanWCE]

We're good.

I'm like John Cena and Filthy Sanchez & Damon are like Vocal male audience. We don't always see eye to eye but I respect their passion & right to make some noise because they brought their ticket to BigFooty, & they just respect the s**t out of me because I'm John Cena & they are closet Cenation members

inb4 CHEESEDOGGWINSLOL

 

[Ry009]

We're good.

I'm like John Cena and Filthy Sanchez & Damon are like Vocal male audience. We don't always see eye to eye but I respect their passion & right to make some noise because they brought their ticket to BigFooty, & they just respect the s**t out of me because I'm John Cena & they are closet Cenation members

John Cena? You haven't posted the same thing week in week out for 10 years though.

Oh and on a slightly unrelated note, if anyone can understand the better performers going unrewarded, its those that play Destiny