eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Carlisle's an average ruckman. His positioning and nous at the stoppages is plain average. He's an oversized KPP instead of a ruckman
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Ben Griffiths, Jake Carlisle, Aaron Black
- Thread starter richoatthedisco
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- Aug 8, 2009
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Hardly conditions for Griffiths tbh. His contested marking in the last few weeks has been sensational and is something I haven't seen Black do. His probably going to take the longest to develop imo.
Blacks a poor man's buddy, contested marking aint his go. one handed pickups and snaps, along with marks on the lead are what he is good at.
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One of the best things about Aaron Black is that he's just as good in any conditions. Actually said after the game he likes to play in the wet, was brilliant at ground level. Black's marking has looked improved this year, it's coming on but very very slowly. I think Griffiths will come good too though.
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
I think Black has a bit of Lance Whitnall about him personally
I call bullshit.....Aaron Blacks eyes are both on the front of his face
He does not have a gecko head like Lance....can be seen above trying to lick his eye ball
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eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Just in that he's more than competent at ground level, not really suited to the #1 forwards role and has a bit of pace. My memory is hazy about Whitnall though, I may be wrong about him
MiloStedman
Est. 1994
A few years on and Carlisle is the clear leader here surely. Unlike the other two he has shown he can play back and forward at a high level, and put up a decent fight in ruck. All good players, but for me it's clearly
Carlisle
Black
Griffiths
Carlisle
Black
Griffiths
Carlisle has shown he can play back very well, forward is still up for consideration. He does have a great pair of hands that allow him to really be a good forward.
That said, l would agree with your list at this stage, the end of the year will give a good indication of where players sit.
MiloStedman
Est. 1994
Agreed, at this stage I would rather have Black in the forward line than Carlisle. He's an excellent shot on goal and for a big bloke he's excellent off the ground as he showed on the weekend...although he probably got some help from the Sydney defence, or lack thereof.
Yet to play fwd at a high level. Yet to play fwd much at all.
Anyone got numbers on Carlisle's goals conceded last year?
Carlisle's Champion Data writeup isn't overly kind:
"Carlisle was Essendon's swingman last season, often switching ends with Michael Hurley. As a defender he struggled against elite key forwards, conceding three or more goals seven times which included eight to Lance Franklin and five to Travis Cloke in consecutive weeks. He defended the most one-on-one contests at the club and ranked No.1 for spoils, second for intercept marks and fourth for intercept possessions. He was a low risk player with ball in hand, with 22% of his kicks directed either backwards or laterally. As a result he recorded the highest retention rate by foot of the 140 players in the AFL across the H&A season who recorded at least 200 kicks. As a forward he was a poor target, recording the second-worst rate of the top 120 targets in the competition."
"Carlisle was Essendon's swingman last season, often switching ends with Michael Hurley. As a defender he struggled against elite key forwards, conceding three or more goals seven times which included eight to Lance Franklin and five to Travis Cloke in consecutive weeks. He defended the most one-on-one contests at the club and ranked No.1 for spoils, second for intercept marks and fourth for intercept possessions. He was a low risk player with ball in hand, with 22% of his kicks directed either backwards or laterally. As a result he recorded the highest retention rate by foot of the 140 players in the AFL across the H&A season who recorded at least 200 kicks. As a forward he was a poor target, recording the second-worst rate of the top 120 targets in the competition."
Black's writeup:
"Had an instant impact booting multiple goals in six of his first seven games. He played every match from then on and showed impressive mobility, rating above average for a key forward in disposals and tackles and recording the fourth-highest tackle efficiency of the top 20 key forwards for tackle attempts. He was the Kangaroos' second-most used target inside 50, retaining possession 55% of the time - the sixth highest percentage of the top 50 targets across the H&A season - grabbing the seventh-most lead marks of any player in the competition."
"Had an instant impact booting multiple goals in six of his first seven games. He played every match from then on and showed impressive mobility, rating above average for a key forward in disposals and tackles and recording the fourth-highest tackle efficiency of the top 20 key forwards for tackle attempts. He was the Kangaroos' second-most used target inside 50, retaining possession 55% of the time - the sixth highest percentage of the top 50 targets across the H&A season - grabbing the seventh-most lead marks of any player in the competition."
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
So probably slightly below average in terms of actually restricting goals?
Did a lot of eye catching things but I'm not convinced he had a great year.
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Carlisle didn't have a great year as he was inconsistent across 22 games but the first half of his year was AA quality. He was patchy in the second half of the year but he still managed to soundly beat Kennedy twice.
His season is also far and above anything Black or Griffith's have produced.
No it's not, mate. For all the flashy things he did, he had a below average year for a key defender. It wasn't a patchy second half of the year, it was a very poor second half of the year.
As a comparison, Black had a season that was extremely similar to that of a recognised gun in Jack Darling.
Yep. I think Carlisle will be the better footballer but I thought his 2013 was horribly overrated.
I thought his season was overrated as well but I think you are going to far with it. He was excellent at intercept marks and stood up in high pressure moments.
With the benefit of hindsight Essendon should have rotated Carlisle and Hooker as the number one defender and prevented Carlisle from burning out later in the year.
I'm not saying he had a terrible year, just that he wasn't any better than Black whose combination of goal kicking and tackling made him a serious contributor. I'd say Black was about the 10th-15th best key forward in the comp and Carlisle was about the 10th-15th best key defender.
