Opinion Best 22 - 2015

[thylacine60]

Henderson, Menzel and Doc all struggled with injury/fitness last year.

Doc and Menzel seem to have flashes of brilliance with clever handballs, kicks before clangerising simple passes

clangerising

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Who do you consider to be our most overrated and underrated 'best 25' players?

Overrated:
- Henderson
- Menzel
- Docherty

Underrated:
- White
- Bell
- Wood

Overrated is simply rating a player to be better than what they are at the moment. It does not mean that they aren't good. Just talked up as being better than their best.

OVERRATED (overhyped, calling players guns, praising them when they don't show enough sometimes, and putting them in best 25)

- Patrick Cripps (but talented and has earned his spot in the side. It is just that everybody talks him up SO much like he is more successful than Judd).
- Blaine Boekhorst (being the top draft pick for last year. Every year the top draft pick gets the most attention. The numbers do not matter).
- Dylan Buckley (he has a bit of a cult following, but I will still give him a chance).
- Troy Menzel (but it is starting to wear off given his good skills. He is in the 22).
- Nick Graham (People have been rating him as a best 22 player, when he has not had much game time).
- Clem Smith (A bit to early to chuck him in any 22).
- Sam Docherty (Shown lots, but their are boundaries with him that many do not see).
- Tom Bell ( Half-half really. His shape and comparisons to Kouta, keeps him in the light when it comes to the media).

UNDERRATED (not mentioned much, often can be a key to a successful side or forgotten about)

- Ed Curnow (Probably the most underrated player in the team. Most former rookies in general are often underrated. Still gets seen as being inexperienced and at the same time hitting the end of his career. Key tagger that epitomizes many team performances).
- Kade Simpson (It is all Gibbs, Judd and Murphy. Simpson is just as talented but not as popular, regardless of where he plays on the field. Midfield or Half-back).
- Simon White (has shown to be a great swing-man for the team. Everybody tends to forget his impact in the game).
- David Ellard (shown glimpses of being an effective player. But his calf troubles keep him to an ordinary status at the club).

 

[Cringle]

Overrated is simply rating a player to be better than what they are at the moment. It does not mean that they aren't good. Just talked up as being better than their best.

OVERRATED (overhyped, calling players guns, praising them when they don't show enough sometimes, and putting them in best 25)

- Patrick Cripps (but talented and has earned his spot in the side. It is just that everybody talks him up SO much like he is more successful than Judd).
- Blaine Boekhorst (being the top draft pick for last year. Every year the top draft pick gets the most attention. The numbers do not matter).
- Dylan Buckley (he has a bit of a cult following, but I will still give him a chance).
- Troy Menzel (but it is starting to wear off given his good skills. He is in the 22).
- Nick Graham (People have been rating him as a best 22 player, when he has not had much game time).
- Clem Smith (A bit to early to chuck him in any 22).
- Sam Docherty (Shown lots, but their are boundaries with him that many do not see).
- Tom Bell ( Half-half really. His shape and comparisons to Kouta, keeps him in the light when it comes to the media).

UNDERRATED (not mentioned much, often can be a key to a successful side or forgotten about)

- Ed Curnow (Probably the most underrated player in the team. Most former rookies in general are often underrated. Still gets seen as being inexperienced and at the same time hitting the end of his career. Key tagger that epitomizes many team performances).
- Kade Simpson (It is all Gibbs, Judd and Murphy. Simpson is just as talented but not as popular, regardless of where he plays on the field. Midfield or Half-back).
- Simon White (has shown to be a great swing-man for the team. Everybody tends to forget his impact in the game).
- David Ellard (shown glimpses of being an effective player. But his calf troubles keep him to an ordinary status at the club).

Honestly mate... just because we're excited about a few players with promise doesn't mean they're overrated. There is a reason all players you've listed as overrated are our youngest and newest.

The underrated aren't even underrated they're just been praised enough considering how long they've been at the club and it's more expected where they are.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Honestly mate... just because we're excited about a few players with promise doesn't mean they're overrated. There is a reason all players you've listed as overrated are our youngest and newest.

The underrated aren't even underrated they're just been praised enough considering how long they've been at the club and it's more expected where they are.

Obviously you see it differently. It's okay to get excited. I am excited with Cripps and Menzel, but I am not going out of my way, jumping the gun and saying they are absolutely the best. And I am not saying you are either.
Don't imply that I am saying they aren't good enough.
The young players, to me are hyped up TOO much (a certain amount is okay).

If you go to the Underrated player thread in the AFL forum. A lot do mention Curnow and Simpson being the most underrated players at the club. They do not get praised as much as they should. Simple as that.

If you think otherwise, I guess we are just going to have to 'agree to disagree'.

 

[Cringle]

Obviously you see it differently. It's okay to get excited. I am excited with Cripps and Menzel, but I am not going out of my way, jumping the gun and saying he is absolutely the best. And I am not saying you are either.
Don't imply that I am saying they aren't good enough.
The young players, to me are hyped up TOO much (a certain amount is okay).

If you go to the Underrated player thread in the AFL forum. A lot do mention Curnow and Simpson being the most underrated players at the club. They do not get praised as much as they should. Simple as that.

If you think otherwise, I guess we are just going to have to 'agree to disagree'.

Would've thought Carlton supporters do rate Simpson as much as he deserves. Curnow is up in the air. Some like some don't.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Would've thought Carlton supporters do rate Simpson as much as he deserves. Curnow is up in the air. Some like some don't.

Not just blues supporters, but the footy world in general. The media and those who don't let their emotions cloud their judgement.

 

[ODNBlue]

I suspect Simmo has received more respect as a consequence of Supercoach, et al.. He scores very well as a defender.

 

[AceAndy]

So with the omissions you're playing a front 6 consisting of Henderson, Jones, Casboult and Watson?

Dat defensive pressure.

I am not thrilled with Jones as a third tall option but struggling to see who our defensive forwards are.

Got someone in mind Sharks ?

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

I am not thrilled with Jones as a third tall option but struggling to see who our defensive forwards are.

Got someone in mind Sharks ?

I would like to see either Docherty or Tuohy tried as a defensive (smaller) forward. Not sure either of them are really nailing down a spot in the backline but they have decent enough defensive skills and would both hurt the opposition on the scoreboard IMO.

 

[Cringle]

Docherty was trialed through the middle during the earlier NAB cup games thus I wouldn't be surprised if he and Menzel find themselves playing stints through the centre during the later stages of the season.

 

[ferrisb]

Lots of discussion about KPPs.

Jaksch v white, Jones vs cring... Watson, Rowe & Hendo fwd vs back.

Solution

Three tall backs: jamo, Rowe, kj
Three tall fwds: Hendo, Cas, Jones/Watson

White on bench / sub, perfect replacement for one of three backs or fwds...

#standbythird

 

[King of Ruin]

You idiot!

 

[thebluelagoon]

Lots of discussion about KPPs.

Jaksch v white, Jones vs cring... Watson, Rowe & Hendo fwd vs back.

Solution

Three tall backs: jamo, Rowe, kj
Three tall fwds: Hendo, Cas, Jones/Watson

White on bench / sub, perfect replacement for one of three backs or fwds...

#standbythird

i doubt that we need 7 KKP in the side, if you are going in with 3 KPF and 3 KPB you hardly need one on the bench too. KPB generally rack up the most game minutes (except Curnow who is a freak) and everitt can can pinch hit a little if required. I'm not sure white is first in line as a mid

 

[Govinda blueboy]

[QUOTE "on, post: 37618213, member: 137323"]i doubt that we need 7 KKP in the side, if you are going in with 3 KPF and 3 KPB you hardly need one on the bench too. KPB generally rack up the most game minutes (except Curnow who is a freak) and everitt can can pinch hit a little if required. I'm not sure white is first in line as a mid[/QUOTE]


I tend to agree with this, will be very interested to see the side MM selects as we're all aware of Mick and Whitey sitting in a tree..

 

[Govinda blueboy]

I would be astonished if KJ was left out of the side, the only tall I see who may be left out for Whitey is Jones. Imo having 9 talls is way too many.. It will rob us of run and carry

Jamo, KJ, Rowe,
Casboult, Hendo, Jones

Ruck plus Everitt

That is plenty of talls, as blue lagoon says Everitt is the Joker in the pack, he plays midfield, back and forward. Forward is where I see us getting our greatest value from him. If we have our 3 big talls fwd, and Everitt, he could clean up

 

[ferrisb]

To be honest, my post was mostly made up to justify the hashtag joke at the end.

You know you've pushed the common sense boundaries bloody far when King of Ruin calls you an idiot!

BUT, I can't see Mick leaving out whitey and it sounds like KJ has played his way into the team. Also, I wouldn't classify everitt as A tall. Even though he IS tall.

Gonna do some homework on how many talls the top teams play...

 

[BM123]

Good young players

I would like to see either Docherty or Tuohy tried as a defensive (smaller) forward. Not sure either of them are really nailing down a spot in the backline but they have decent enough defensive skills and would both hurt the opposition on the scoreboard IMO.

I'd like to see Docherty as another medium forward to be honest. He has a few tricks when it comes to kicking goals and he has the skills to hit a target. It also helps mitigate the damage caused by some of his errand kicks due to his poor fitness base.

Docherty, Casboult, Thomas
Menzel, Henderson, Jones

Back ups: Yarran, Tutt, Smith, Johnson, Boekhurst, Everitt

Would be my starting forward line until Walker is fit enough.

Jaksch, Jamo, Tuohy
Yarran, Rowe, Simpson

Back ups: Buckley, Byrne, Sheehan, Dick, Docherty, Everitt, Thomas, Walker

Bolded will likely swap around a fair bit depending on opposition match ups or injury.

 

[Govinda blueboy]

Gonna do some homework on how many talls the top teams play...

Anyone know how many talls Hawthorn played the year they won with Buddy? 2013?

 

[thylacine60]

I am not thrilled with Jones as a third tall option but struggling to see who our defensive forwards are.

Got someone in mind Sharks ?

You'll be thrilled and like it...

 

[Cringle]

FML if Kruezer comes back and is used in Casboults role with Warnock.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Can we really afford to play all of Caboult, Jones and White in the same team?

Given Casboult plays some time in ruck he looks safe for now but who do we leave out Jones or White?

 

[checkpoints]

If it was a choice out of White and Jones. I'd take White. Does simply more with or without the ball.

 

[Govinda blueboy]

FML if Kruezer comes back and is used in Casboults role with Warnock.

Sounds good but can Kruezer get back on the park long enough and can he be a good target? So far he hasn't shown that he can be a good mark or that he can be a reliable set shot. Heres hoping that he comes good and can pressure Cas for that position. I'd be happy if he could mark 7/8 of the grabs that Cas holds but proves way more accurate.

 

[HBF]

Just wondering how good Cripps currently is? I understand that given his physical frame, skillset and workrate have him on a trajectory to be a great player in the future, but what are realistic expectations (and ceiling) for him this year?

Is it too soon to expect him to play 18+ games?

He'll probably need a break at some stage during the year. Maybe 15+ games this year.

 

[ShanDog]

Can we really afford to play all of Caboult, Jones and White in the same team?

The match committee are probably wondering similar things, which is why they are trying White on the ball etc.

Honestly, I think he provides enough at ground level on medium sized opponents to justify his spot in the team as a utility. We play Everitt as one, and surely he is bigger than Simon White! He may also be a better runner which allows this, but White isn't bad in the clinches.... I think if we played him in the middle for the year, he would surprise many by establishing himself as a decent midfielder.