Strategy Best 22 in 2014

[Partridge]

But it's all speculation. Above all I am intrigued by the attitude of some that if a player excels in a particular position it categorically rules out the possibility of him moving. Generally speaking that's okay, however in particular circumstances, like this year, I feel experimentation and lateral thinking is called for.

I understand your view, I just think Taylor would leave a gulf at CHB; especially against good sides with good key forwards.

 

[Claude Balls]

And I see several people believe those who advocate Taylor moving forward are suggesting he'll be the next Wayne Carey. Not at all. Just potentially a net improvement to the team overall by providing a legitimate option, who in his limited time forward has shown more than the options we otherwise have at our disposal this year.

 

[Claude Balls]

I understand your view, I just think Taylor would leave a gulf at CHB; especially against good sides with good key forwards.

Fair enough. He may well indeed leave a gulf. I for one am just keen to see a bit more proactive 'strategising' with respect to CHF this year.

EDIT: perhaps Walker in two weeks running is a sign the MC has decided to give something an opportunity to work.

 

[vinum coupe]

For a guy with pace I don't think Murdoch uses it enough. Although it isn't a perfect guide, he has only taken three bounces in his entire career. That to me doesn't scream burning off opponents with pace.

He burns them in the first 10 metres. He actually doesn't hang on to the ball much, prefers to hit targets by foot ASAP.

 

[Partridge]

Fair enough. He may well indeed leave a gulf. I for one am just keen to see a bit more proactive 'strategising' with respect to CHF this year.

EDIT: perhaps Walker in two weeks running is a sign the MC has decided to give something an opportunity to work.

Yep, and encouragingly with both Brown and Kersten playing VFL tomorrow (apparently) we'll soon have three options available for selection. Much more encouraging that one or none.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

As of right now, IMO:

B: Enright, Lonergan, Rivers
HB: Mackie, Taylor, Kelly
C: Duncan Horlin Smith Guthrie
HF: Stokes, McIntosh, Motlop,
F: Christensen, Hawkins, Bartel
R: Simpson, Selwood, Johnson
Int: Blicavs, Caddy, Murdoch, Varcoe (sub)

The others: Walker, Kersten, Hunt, Bews, Smedts, Stringer

Players in green for me are automatic selections, and the rest have to keep their form up to keep their spots

Some things have been settled, e.g. Guthrie now clearly is best 22 and Horlin Smith looks similar.

However there are still three main questions unanswered:
1. Small defender- our defence as a whole is great but with Guthrie doing so well in the midfield he cannot be moved back there, which means we have a weakness against good small forwards, and we may need a matchup for a knockout final. Smedts is not a small defender IMO, I have liked Bews work but he is a first year player, Hunt is the other option but is currently out of the side.
Hence with a full strength team I have actually put Kelly back as he has shown he can do the job before, it's not the ideal option but we may have to go with it.

2. CHF/Ruck
McIntosh is the no1 ruck IMO however he is a better forward than Simpson so if we play two rucks he must play forward. The other option is a proper CHF which would be between Walker, Kersten, or Brown, with Blicavs as the second ruck and Simpson out of the side. I prefer a proper CHF but it remains open as to whether we go that way or not.
They seem to like Blicavs and he is progressing well so I think Simpson is the one of the talls who is most vulnerable if they decide to put a CHF in.

3. Varcoe/bench
Despite improvement in recent weeks I think Varcoe is still only just clinging to a spot.
I think Caddy also needs to keep improving to be best 22, but pre foot injury he was showing that it looks like he will.

We have a lot of depth from players 23-28 so these guys are vulnerable unless they are in good form.

 

[catempire]

Pretty much agree PO, but I'd hope they rotate Simpson and McIntosh for a good chunk of the season and in the process get good looks at Walker, Kersten and Brown as the 2nd forward. At the pointy end of the season we'll either know if one of those three is good enough to nudge out the 2nd ruckman (whoever that is based on form at the time).

 

[DanA]

As of right now, IMO:
2. CHF/Ruck
McIntosh is the no1 ruck IMO however he is a better forward than Simpson so if we play two rucks he must play forward. The other option is a proper CHF which would be between Walker, Kersten, or Brown, with Blicavs as the second ruck and Simpson out of the side. I prefer a proper CHF but it remains open as to whether we go that way or not.
They seem to like Blicavs and he is progressing well so I think Simpson is the one of the talls who is most vulnerable if they decide to put a CHF in.

I agree with all the rest but I don't think McIntosh has cemented his spot as best 22 ahead of Simpson. I think if we only play one of McIntosh/Simpson then as a pure ruck men I'd lean towards Simpson but not a lot separates the two in my eyes. McIntosh far better up forward, Simpson a little better in the ruck balances things out and makes it a tough decision.

 

[Catdynasty]

I agree with all the rest but I don't think McIntosh has cemented his spot as best 22 ahead of Simpson. I think if we only play one of McIntosh/Simpson then as a pure ruck men I'd lean towards Simpson but not a lot separates the two in my eyes. McIntosh far better up forward, Simpson a little better in the ruck balances things out and makes it a tough decision.

Agree Totally. We cannot and should not play all three of Simpson, McIntosh and Blicavs in the same side. For me its Simpson or Mcintosh as the #1 Ruck and Blicavs as back up. Especially now we have a few more options to experiment with Walker, Kersten and Brown fit and a little more midfield depth with Caddy, Bundy etc due back, the 3 ruckman experiment needs to end.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Agree Totally. We cannot and should not play all three of Simpson, McIntosh and Blicavs in the same side. For me its Simpson or Mcintosh as the #1 Ruck and Blicavs as back up. Especially now we have a few more options to experiment with Walker, Kersten and Brown fit and a little more midfield depth with Caddy, Bundy etc due back, the 3 ruckman experiment needs to end.

Exactly. Blicavs and Walker can even share the backup role. Less pressure on the backup ruckmen and better forward options than having Hmac/Simpson sitting up there.

I'll be pretty concerned if they go back to the 2 big guys...

 

[Vdubs]

Come September, as long as we have a fit Harry, a fit HAWKINS, a fit Selwood. and at least one fit #1 ruckman, we'll be better off than 2013, and we saw how close we got. Really hoping they will manage those 5 from now on, and some others like SJ, Bartel, Mackie and Boris

 

[tenderwarrior]

The others: Walker, Kersten, Hunt, Bews, Smedts, Stringer

I would add Hartman to that list, as to a lesser extend, Thurlow and Burbury. Hartman I thought looked really good on the weekend, he has something that is hard to describe. The way he moves in and around traffic was very good. I hope he keeps his spot for this week in what will be a more challenging opponent. Thurlow is slowly building up in the VFL, and is somebody I half expect to be able to come in to the side and just stay there. Burbury is another who the club obviously rate, and though he doesn't have the 'coolness' of Hartman or Thurlow, he does bring something to the mix which I find enticing.

 

[year of the cat]

How do we see our best 22 now? For me it's -

B: Enright, Lonergan, Rivers
HB: Mackie, Taylor, Guthrie
C: Christensen, Horlin-Smith, Stokes
HF: Motlop, Kersten, Duncan
F: Murdoch, Hawkins, Bartel

Foll: McIntosh, Johnson, Selwood

Int: Blicavs, Caddy, Varcoe, Kelly

Emerg: Hartman, Bews

I'd love to squeeze Hartman into the side as the sub but can't see a spot other than perhaps Horlin-Smith (or Caddy) who I hope will be given more game time in the next few weeks. It was ok today because we were only up against Melbourne, but George should never be the sub. He's either in the 21 or not in the team at all.

I'd throw Guthrie back now. His form has tailed off a bit recently. Get him back in a role that he was so good in last year. We need more run out of the backline in any case. Having Varcoe down there as an extra man should give us some nice attack from our defensive 50.

I think it pretty obvious now that we only take 2 ruckmen in. Blicavs has been good the last 4-6 weeks and is all but a lock as that backup ruck. His versatility pretty much demands he stays in the team. McIntosh is ahead of Simpson at the moment. Just provides more around the ground.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I think you're right about that best 22, yotc, and on HMac - he's timed his run well, hasn't he, while Simpson appears to be carrying something. Suggestion in the VFL game tonight was that his back was playing up, which isn't good news but possibly just something that he is going to have to live with. Fingers crossed no more surgery for the poor bloke.
I just hope that the rest that Hamish has had over the past few weeks will see him right through to the end of the season.

GHS was subbed out last week and subbed in this week- not sure what's going on with him but he did hurt his back several weeks ago. What is it with these boys and back injuries this year? We've also had Stevie J struggling (rumoured to be getting epidural relief) as well as the skipper, plus a few of the young blokes going down with back injuries during the season for short periods. What are the fitness team doing about it?? And why are the injuries happening when we don't usually have this many injuries to players' backs?

 

[DanA]

I think the 22 is nailed on right now. Maybe Hartman can push into the team before the end of the year but with perhaps the exception of Meto's man crush (Varcoe) pretty much everyone I think would agree the best 22 is as YOTC suggested.

FB: Rivers Lonergan Enright
HB: Kelly Taylor Mackie
C: Duncan Selwood Motlop
HF: Stokes Kersten Bartel
FF: Murdoch Hawkins Christenson
R: McIntosh Johnson Guthrie
Int: Caddy, Blicavs, GHS Varcoe

GHS, Caddy, Christenson, Stokes, Bartel and Kelly all rotation as inside mids. With Guthrie and Kelly sharing time down back. The rest including Selwood I'd like to see spend some time forward. Varcoe potentially as a sweeper down back or at least on a very poor marking option otherwise adding defensive pressure in the forwardline.

 

[dazbroncos]

Just happy as a pig in s**t to see one S Kersten in a good chunk of best 22's…..

Damn good sight that one…

Go Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

I think you're right about that best 22, yotc, and on HMac - he's timed his run well, hasn't he, while Simpson appears to be carrying something. Suggestion in the VFL game tonight was that his back was playing up, which isn't good news but possibly just something that he is going to have to live with. Fingers crossed no more surgery for the poor bloke.
I just hope that the rest that Hamish has had over the past few weeks will see him right through to the end of the season.

GHS was subbed out last week and subbed in this week- not sure what's going on with him but he did hurt his back several weeks ago. What is it with these boys and back injuries this year? We've also had Stevie J struggling (rumoured to be getting epidural relief) as well as the skipper, plus a few of the young blokes going down with back injuries during the season for short periods. What are the fitness team doing about it?? And why are the injuries happening when we don't usually have this many injuries to players' backs?

I think this is just a way of managing his game time. Effectively gets a game off over the 2 weeks. As for the back, Id agree it was an issue but the way he went after coming on Vs D's was a good sign.

Go Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

I think the 22 is nailed on right now. Maybe Hartman can push into the team before the end of the year but with perhaps the exception of Meto's man crush (Varcoe) pretty much everyone I think would agree the best 22 is as YOTC suggested.

FB: Rivers Lonergan Enright
HB: Kelly Taylor Mackie
C: Duncan Selwood Motlop
HF: Stokes Kersten Bartel
FF: Murdoch Hawkins Christenson
R: McIntosh Johnson Guthrie
Int: Caddy, Blicavs, GHS Varcoe

GHS, Caddy, Christenson, Stokes, Bartel and Kelly all rotation as inside mids. With Guthrie and Kelly sharing time down back. The rest including Selwood I'd like to see spend some time forward. Varcoe potentially as a sweeper down back or at least on a very poor marking option otherwise adding defensive pressure in the forwardline.

I think this is pretty much it right now…

Good form.

GO Catters

 

[GFrost]

Agree with most, Stokes in for Hartman the only change I think.

Must say after having Caddy, Christensen, Motlop, Kersten unavailable for long stretches, and with Stokes on track to return in the next game or two, I'm pretty happy to have my ideal 22 out there around Round 18/19.

Our injury-timing may be spot on (touch-wood), and hopefully our clever fitness people have timed their program to be spot on. Now, just those pesky in-match deficiencies....

 

[Partridge]

I think this is just a way of managing his game time. Effectively gets a game off over the 2 weeks. As for the back, Id agree it was an issue but the way he went after coming on Vs D's was a good sign.

Go Catters

Yep, same reason Caddy was sub two weeks in a row (although I don't know about two straight weeks, but anyway). Ensures all the younger midfielders are not smacked around too much. They might play Guthrie as the sub next week.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

How do we see our best 22 now? For me it's -

B: Enright, Lonergan, Rivers
HB: Mackie, Taylor, Guthrie
C: Christensen, Horlin-Smith, Stokes
HF: Motlop, Kersten, Duncan
F: Murdoch, Hawkins, Bartel

Foll: McIntosh, Johnson, Selwood

Int: Blicavs, Caddy, Varcoe, Kelly

Emerg: Hartman, Bews

I'd love to squeeze Hartman into the side as the sub but can't see a spot other than perhaps Horlin-Smith (or Caddy) who I hope will be given more game time in the next few weeks. It was ok today because we were only up against Melbourne, but George should never be the sub. He's either in the 21 or not in the team at all.

I'd throw Guthrie back now. His form has tailed off a bit recently. Get him back in a role that he was so good in last year. We need more run out of the backline in any case. Having Varcoe down there as an extra man should give us some nice attack from our defensive 50.

I think it pretty obvious now that we only take 2 ruckmen in. Blicavs has been good the last 4-6 weeks and is all but a lock as that backup ruck. His versatility pretty much demands he stays in the team. McIntosh is ahead of Simpson at the moment. Just provides more around the ground.

Yeah that's it for me. I had hoped Hunt would make a run at the 22 but I think that's done now, Bews is some chance but I think Kelly or Guthrie will go back instead.

McIntosh is ahead of Simpson and I prefer two rucks and Kersten to three rucks and no Kersten.

That's the 22 for me (with Stokes back) unless we have any more injuries I don't think it will change from that.

 

[year of the cat]

Yeah that's it for me. I had hoped Hunt would make a run at the 22 but I think that's done now, Bews is some chance but I think Kelly or Guthrie will go back instead.

McIntosh is ahead of Simpson and I prefer two rucks and Kersten to three rucks and no Kersten.

That's the 22 for me (with Stokes back) unless we have any more injuries I don't think it will change from that.

I wouldn't write Hartman off just yet. Maybe I'm overrating him but I was very impressed with him yesterday. He is clean and very good inside. Prepared to chase and tackle. He is good overhead. From what I saw yesterday he is also a pretty good decision maker. There was one piece of play on my side of the ground where won the ball (I think it was from a mark) and ended up (under pressure) kicking it backwards to an unmarked teammate rather than risk an almost certain turnover by kicking it up the line where there was no real option. I thought it was a pretty mature decision and showed great composure for a kid. The one issue with him is his lack of endurance. He clearly struggles to run games out. But he could be a useful sub in the finals. With another pre-season of running under his belt he could be a beauty. Another big bodied mid that we need.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I don't think he is fit enough to be best 22 yet and we can't carry that in finals (we could 3 or 4 years ago but not now). But he has made MASSIVE improvements in the last 12 months and is going past other fringe players on the list. All credit to him as I didn't think he would, but I've been wrong on that.

 

[4quarter_cat]

I wouldn't write Hartman off just yet. Maybe I'm overrating him but I was very impressed with him yesterday. He is clean and very good inside. Prepared to chase and tackle. He is good overhead. From what I saw yesterday he is also a pretty good decision maker. There was one piece of play on my side of the ground where won the ball (I think it was from a mark) and ended up (under pressure) kicking it backwards to an unmarked teammate rather than risk an almost certain turnover by kicking it up the line where there was no real option. I thought it was a pretty mature decision and showed great composure for a kid. The one issue with him is his lack of endurance. He clearly struggles to run games out. But he could be a useful sub in the finals. With another pre-season of running under his belt he could be a beauty. Another big bodied mid that we need.

That happened right in front of me, and I thought it epitomised how inexperienced he was as kicking it back to enright was certainly not a smart decision when he had better options inside. If only he had looked there.

 

[year of the cat]

That happened right in front of me, and I thought it epitomised how inexperienced he was as kicking it back to enright was certainly not a smart decision when he had better options inside. If only he had looked there.

Really? It would have been a dangerous kick wouldn't it? From my view it was the right choice but you might be right. Either way he didn't turn it over!