Best and worst kicks in the AFL?

[theflea]

Do you understand what 'decision making' encompasses? It means he selects to kick the ball long, when he should kick it short, turning it over. It means he chooses to switch too early, turning the ball over.

You seem to have a very simplistic view of what 'poor kicking' actually means, especially if you're just looking at the turnover stats and declaring that a player must be a poor kick.

While there is a difference regarding pure kicking skills and decision making with the ball, all of the players mentioned here would be a hybrid of the 2, as to where they are being rated.

 

[eth-dog]

Oh god this gets better - first of all it's not Roughead's faults for the goals he concedes because the ball comes inside his defensive 50 more often, and now it is Hawthorn play a high possession game so of course Schoey will get the ball more (even if it is in that area of the ground noticeably less as you pointed out).

They also play the exact same position so and are 5 days apart in age and 5 cm apart in height so it's pretty much comparing apples and apples IMO.

When you face 90 more inside 50's a season, especially when you play on the #1 key forward (which he played on 100% of the time) in comparison to Schonmakers who played on the #2 forward a lot. Schoenmakers when he played averaged 3.5% of Hawthorn's total possessions. Roughead averages 3.1% of Western Bulldogs possessions, which in reality isn't a big difference. When taking out frees against, Roughead averages 0.4 clangers out of 11.4 disposals. Schoenmakers averages 0.8 clangers out of 14 disposals. That's 3.5% of clangers per disposal for Roughead and 5.7% for Schoenmakers.

I also think that how Schoenmakers averages 0.1 more tackles and 0.3 more marks is completely irrelevant.

 

[cryptor]

Reading this argument, eth-dog comes across just like the donkey in this video. And just deciding to ignore efficiency statistics because he thinks they're crap. Oh boy...

 

[eth-dog]

Reading this argument, eth-dog comes across just like the donkey in this video. And just deciding to ignore efficiency statistics because he thinks they're crap. Oh boy...

Did you read the part I conceded that I was wrong? Also, Gary Ablett has a DE of 69%. Spangher has one of 81%. How many people would say Matthew Spangher is a better kick than Gary Ablett?

 

[Beasley]

Our kicking spud is Mathew Boyd ......... woeful turnover king for a player of his experience.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

While there is a difference regarding pure kicking skills and decision making with the ball, all of the players mentioned here would be a hybrid of the 2, as to where they are being rated.

No doubt, but Schoenmakers technique is quite good. He has a great leg on him.

It's obvious that his deficiency in his execution is above his shoulders.

 

[cryptor]

Did you read the part I conceded that I was wrong? Also, Gary Ablett has a DE of 69%. Spangher has one of 81%. How many people would say Matthew Spangher is a better kick than Gary Ablett?

No, I started skimming your posts after about the third time you flat out denied it.

DE% is related to disposal, not exclusively kicking. But anyway, it's about context. Matthew Spangher, a swing man player who gets many uncontested possessions switching the ball in defense, handballing backwards to a free player and occasionally kicking long with a bail out kick (which CD counts as an effective disposal as long as a teammate is there to contest it). Compared to Gary Ablett who does most of his work in congestion on the inside of packs and has 1 or 2 players trailing him ready to affect his disposal nearly every time of the 30+ times he gets it per game. There is nothing wrong with the DE% stat or stats in general, it's just how people use them out of context.

 

[eth-dog]

No, I started skimming your posts after about the third time you flat out denied it.

DE% is related to disposal, not exclusively kicking. But anyway, it's about context. Matthew Spangher, a swing man player who gets many uncontested possessions switching the ball in defense, handballing backwards to a free player and occasionally kicking long with a bail out kick (which CD counts as an effective disposal as long as a teammate is there to contest it). Compared to Gary Ablett who does most of his work in congestion on the inside of packs and has 1 or 2 players trailing him ready to affect his disposal nearly every time of the 30+ times he gets it per game. There is nothing wrong with the DE% stat or stats in general, it's just how people use them out of context.

Okay, let me give you reasons disposal and kicking efficiency is a farce. A chip kick over 25 metres to a player running back to goal that touches the ground is an ineffective kick, but a 45 metre kick where a bloke is outnumbered 2 to 1 and one player punches to the other is an effective kick. An underground handpass is automatically ineffective, even if it sets up a goal. It's the most flawed stat in the system.

 

[tige19]

That's rubbish. Schoey is a very good kick and massively under-rated in that department.

He is a turnover merchant at the worst times.. His mechanics are fine, it's really what's between the ears that is lacking.

 

[tige19]

Looks like he's been grazing in a good paddock.

Looks like he's about to join ISIS

 

[GoldenHodge]

So even though he turns it over a lot by foot, he's a good kick. I'm not the one who's got a simplistic view of this, it's actually you. Kicking isn't only about looking good off the boot, it's also about hitting targets. It can look good all you want but if it's a turnover, it's a poor kick. How can you say that a player is a good kick if he consistently turns the ball over by foot?

2.1 clangers per game in 2014 making him equal 220th in most clangers per game. In 2011 and 2012 he was averaging 2.9 and 2.8 clangers a game. So he's actually improved since he was branded with the clangers nickname.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

O An underground handpass is automatically ineffective, even if it sets up a goal. It's the most flawed stat in the system.

explains why rockys efficiency was never higher. Does about 5-6 a game

 

[theflea]

No doubt, but Schoenmakers technique is quite good. He has a great leg on him.

It's obvious that his deficiency in his execution is above his shoulders.

Yeah wasn't a specific reference to Schoenmakers, just a general comment.

 

[eth-dog]

2.1 clangers per game in 2014 making him equal 220th in most clangers per game. In 2011 and 2012 he was averaging 2.9 and 2.8 clangers a game. So he's actually improved since he was branded with the clangers nickname.

As said earlier, clangers doesn't mean all turnovers, just bad ones that result in goals and Frees Against. Finding turnover stats is very frustrating.

explains why rockys efficiency was never higher. Does about 5-6 a game

Yep.

 

[cryptor]

Okay, let me give you reasons disposal and kicking efficiency is a farce. A chip kick over 25 metres to a player running back to goal that touches the ground is an ineffective kick, but a 45 metre kick where a bloke is outnumbered 2 to 1 and one player punches to the other is an effective kick. An underground handpass is automatically ineffective, even if it sets up a goal. It's the most flawed stat in the system.

I'll agree that it's not the best stat given mere metres can be the difference between defining a kick effective and not. However in your examples a 25m kick that can't hit its target on the full isn't a good kick anyway. Points to the receiving player for being able to clean it up and kick the goal. And a >40m kick to a worse than 50-50 contest is considered ineffective by the CD definitions I've read so your second example is incorrect. I'll give you the handball example though as it's an advanced skill and should be duly recognised when performed right.
The stat definitions could definitely do with some work but it's not so flawed that it can't be used as an effective tool in rating and player comparisons.

 

[Augustine]

This is something I love to show to people who think Harvey is overrated (if anything he's underrated)

He's a ridiculous statistical outlier when it comes to kicks inside 50.

 

[cryptor]

This is something I love to show to people who think Harvey is overrated (if anything he's underrated)View attachment 105713

He's a ridiculous statistical outlier when it comes to kicks inside 50.

"Marks from kicks inside 50" refers to one of their teammates marking it inside 50 from their kick from outside 50, correct?

Pretty damn impressive. Also doesn't say much good about Dangerfield. Perhaps because so many of his kicks inside 50 are shots at goal rather than to teammates.

 

[MagpieJo]

Best- Goddard Yarran Gibbs Ablett Hanley Birchall Hartlett Wingard

Worst Taylor Adam Greenwood Crisp


Billings will be elite is Footskills are superb.

2010 still burning huh?

 

[MagpieJo]

Best kick in the game has been Goddard for many years. Sickeningly good to watch and very few if any shanks even under pressure, but i remember it was no secret leading into that draft how some rep coaches thought he was the greatest kick they had EVER seen come thru...so he basically lived up to his schoolboy rep. I consider Akermanis and Goddard by far the two best by foot in recent memory.

Surprisingly good on the odd occasion u see it are the champion power fwds. Its as though they try to remind their own midfields what they expect. All of Brown Riewoldt Pavlich and Franklin have actually been surprisingly brilliant field kicks whenever u get to see it...Brown was a real standout field kick for such a big unit.

HBF is the outboard motor powering every modern team. If you have seriously skilled run and carry weapons out of defence you have the potential to make and win finals. No surprise to see some of the most lethal kicks in the game playing that attacking role. Two standouts for me over the last 5 yrs is the dream HBF pairing of Malceski and Burgoyne....been the most consistent for years now because they are true defenders first and foremost, but murder you on the rebound as one touch weapons by foot. They have the vision and confidence to back up their footskills. With the game so structured and predictably tidal, there is nothing more dangerous than having it suddenly and rapidly go 50-100m back the other way before you've been able to do much more than turn around. When you see one of them catching 3/4 of the guys on the paddock behind their run you can mark down a goal everytime.

Midfielders i;d say Pendlebury, Dal Santo and Mitchell. Experienced elite A graders with sickeningly good vision and the delivery to back it up.

Not interested in the worst kicks. We've all got a few lousy ones but they tend to be weeded out within 3-5yrs. At top level though its a relative thing...the best play at AFL level so you can look lousy simply by association. No fluke Hawthorn have won a cpl of flags becooz they have insisted on footskills as a basic requirement thru the draft and trading.

Brilliant post,

And love the way you don't need to bag anyone.

The worst kick in the league is still out there, earning the way a hell of a lot of armchair critics would like to be.

 

[Augustine]

"Marks from kicks inside 50" refers to one of their teammates marking it inside 50 from their kick from outside 50, correct?

Pretty damn impressive. Also doesn't say much good about Dangerfield. Perhaps because so many of his kicks inside 50 are shots at goal rather than to teammates.

Yes it refers to one of their team-mates taking a mark off their kick inside 50. And yes it doesn't do much for Dangefield's "Clangerfield" reputation. I'm desperate to know who some of the other 'dots' are. I have a feeling the one on the far right is Ablett.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Burgoyne is a master deliverer of the ball and also a very reliable set shot. Mitchell is excellent at delivering the ball on either foot under immense pressure. Suckers can hit nice 50+ passes but he can also completely shank them. His best is worth it though. I remember him kicking out from a behind once and hitting Lewis inside the center square. That is not overly special on it's own but the fact the ball never seemed to get more than 5 meters off the ground and that it damn near knocked Lewis over when he took it, gives you an idea of the power he hit it with and the speed that it hit Lewis at. That's the key to good ball movement for us. Litherland is as long a kick as Suckers but they go 30 meters up and 60 meters long, giving time for defenders to roll onto the receiver. Suckers doesn't give that time.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

This is something I love to show to people who think Harvey is overrated (if anything he's underrated)View attachment 105713

He's a ridiculous statistical outlier when it comes to kicks inside 50.

Translated. Harvey only runs one way. Watch a game.

 

[the big lebowski]

Translated. Harvey only runs one way. Watch a game.

Even if true, that would have what impact on his kicking ability?

Am i in the wrong thread?

 

[Augustine]

Translated. Harvey only runs one way. Watch a game.

That's what you got from that!?!?!

 

[Heaps of fun]

Translated. Harvey only runs one way. Watch a game.

Pot shot game weak as hell bruh.