Best off season list changes

[fishardansin]

There is a thread where the virtues of each teams performance at the draft table is lauded, laughed at or meh-ed at. As an Essendon supporter I'm a little amused that with just two draft picks we're supposedly a winner!!

I think the best way to look at it is a holistic look at list movement. So taking into account which players were delisted, which players were resigned despite opposition clubs sniffing around, who was traded in and out and who was drafted.

So as I haven't paid as much attention to the draft this year as I have others I'm not really in a position to comment broadly, but I obviously have noticed Essendon's movement.

Senior list
Out: Ryder, Jetta, Hardingham, Gregory, Aylet, van Unen
In: Cooney, Gwilt, Ambrose, Giles, Langford, Laverde

Rookie list:
Out: Dell'Olio, Ambrose, Thurlow, Rayner (cat B)
In: Long, Aylet, ???, Connor (cat B)

I can't say where that puts Essendon next year or in 5 years time, not that anyone "knows" I don't even really have a good idea. Cooney will add a fair bit of class off half forward and pushing into the midfield and Gwilt wil add a fair bit of flexibility and depth to the side, potentially allowing Hurley to swing forward a bit more. However, Ryder is a huge loss. For a team with such a slow midfield to lose a blistering quick ruck is going to hurt. He the clubs point of difference player. Especially with the vanilla brand of footy Hird likes he'll be missed. Hopefully Cooney, Dempsey, Colyer and Daniher can provide some x-factor next year, be that pace or marking.

I'm sorry to focus on Essendon, I just did that as I'm a currently ignorant on all sides.

My gut feel is Collingwood has the best influx of players this year. Varcoe and Greenwood make the midfield better right now. Two top 10 picks just round that off.

Also with the drafted players Melbourne's will look the best over the next year or two but I think once development kicks in the KPPs of Saints will provide more for their team going forward.

People are laughing at Carlton, but take their draft picks with their trades and it looks very different.

Anyway can some clever knowledgeable people do a whole list movement appraisal with an eye for next year and in 5 years time?

 

[Brett C]

There is a thread where the virtues of each teams performance at the draft table is lauded, laughed at or meh-ed at. As an Essendon supporter I'm a little amused that with just two draft picks we're supposedly a winner!!

I think the best way to look at it is a holistic look at list movement. So taking into account which players were delisted, which players were resigned despite opposition clubs sniffing around, who was traded in and out and who was drafted.

So as I haven't paid as much attention to the draft this year as I have others I'm not really in a position to comment broadly, but I obviously have noticed Essendon's movement.

Senior list
Out: Ryder, Jetta, Hardingham, Gregory, Aylet, van Unen
In: Cooney, Gwilt, Ambrose, Giles, Langford, Laverde

Rookie list:
Out: Dell'Olio, Ambrose, Thurlow, Rayner (cat B)
In: Long, Aylet, ???, Connor (cat B)

I can't say where that puts Essendon next year or in 5 years time, not that anyone "knows" I don't even really have a good idea. Cooney will add a fair bit of class off half forward and pushing into the midfield and Gwilt wil add a fair bit of flexibility and depth to the side, potentially allowing Hurley to swing forward a bit more. However, Ryder is a huge loss. For a team with such a slow midfield to lose a blistering quick ruck is going to hurt. He the clubs point of difference player. Especially with the vanilla brand of footy Hird likes he'll be missed. Hopefully Cooney, Dempsey, Colyer and Daniher can provide some x-factor next year, be that pace or marking.

I'm sorry to focus on Essendon, I just did that as I'm a currently ignorant on all sides.

My gut feel is Collingwood has the best influx of players this year. Varcoe and Greenwood make the midfield better right now. Two top 10 picks just round that off.

Also with the drafted players Melbourne's will look the best over the next year or two but I think once development kicks in the KPPs of Saints will provide more for their team going forward.

People are laughing at Carlton, but take their draft picks with their trades and it looks very different.

Anyway can some clever knowledgeable people do a whole list movement appraisal with an eye for next year and in 5 years time?

I don't mind the moves Essendon made this off season, they aren't going to win you a flag but realistically that's a few years off anyways. unless a club is willing to truly bottom out then what's wrong with a few trades that cost very little but keep you competitive in the short term.

Looking at the Brisbane list I think we have the bones for a very good side, we added some good youngsters last year. This off season Beams and Christensen add class with Mitch Robinson a huge bonus if he gets his head right.

The academy players in this draft look good but time will tell. They generally just don't have the exposure to strong week to week football at a young age that kids in the other states have.

List building takes 3 to 5 years if you truly need to turnaround a side.

 

[gutsroy]

This is a really interesting topic, am looking forward to read some more learned responses than I can offer.

If I were to single out one team's overall result, it would be Brisbane at first blush. Beams and Christensen are significant additions for a comparatively modest outlay, the academy drafting saw them get good value on those picks, and if Mcgrath can get his body right, he'll be a steal, I reckon. Add to that a Robinson with something to prove, not bad.

Melbourne also did very well, Lumumba is a consistent performer, Garlett has something to prove, the draft picks all look astute at this early stage of proceedings etc.

 

[TN25]

Other than the Saints, I would say the Hawks, Dees and the Pies all had great off seasons.

 

[Silvagnis]

Richmond added some run and/or skill in Ellis, Menadue, Hunt, Drummond, Short, Butler and Castagna who could improve this side of their team. Similar mindset to Carlton who struggled to match Port's run after we were belted for burst footy. Didn't lose anyone. Long term, they could push Grigg out and replace Foley.

Collingwood haven't improved their squad after Beams walked out and Lumumba left to be replaced by three young mids, Varcoe and Greenwood. It wouldn't be cast as a positive if Carlton had lost Gibbs for De Goey, Greenwood and Crisp. Levi arguably replaces the injured Macaffer as a mid for next year. Sets them back a bit and puts more pressure on Buckley to develop Adams, Freeman, Kennedy, Broomhead, De Goey and Maynard. List and age breakdown suddenly looks comparable to the Dogs who had a gun mid supported by young mids. Pendlebury will get more attention without Beams there next year.

Moore could take time like most talls.

Freo could have a nice bonus in Weller. A gutrunning outside mid could come straight in like Lewis Taylor and flourish at their larger home ground. Complements their ballwinners.

 

[DeGoedStuff]

Very happy with our offseason.

Adding De Goey to our young Mids in Adams, Freeman, Scharenberg, Kennedy, Broomhead and the like is a great result.

We also got the best performed KPF in the draft for Pick 9.

 

[blueboy05]

Even tho collingwood lost beams whos a jet id think they would be pretty happy with who they picked up. Greenwoods a really good inside player, crisp looks like hes going to be a good player as well. Varcoe is the one im not sold on, i think hes a bit overated, hence why geelong got rid of him, even with christenson going. Degoey is apparently a tough nut which is always a win, and you add these boys with the likes of pendles swanny sidebottom etc, its still a pretty good midfield group. They just need cloke to play some decent footy and maybe someone to give him a hand as jesse white had a pretty average year. Moore will take a bit of time ud think as hes a bit skinny to play a big role next year, but he may be able to play a similiar role to daniher. They should get reid back as well so collingwood should be fairly confident this year id say

 

[TheJaegerBomb]

In: Malceski, Hallahan, Wright, Garlett, Miller, Glenn, Saad, Brooksby, Downie, Raines

Very happy. More class and significantly more depth. Now well stocked on every line. Pretty much got exactly what I hoped Clayton would do.

 

[doona]

SYDNEY

Main List
IN: Isaac Heeney, James Rose, Jack Hiscox, Abe Davis, Jake Lloyd (Rookie Upgrade), Xavier Richards (Rookie Upgrade), Daniel Robinson (Rookie Upgrade)
OUT: Nick Malceski, Tim Membrey, Shane Biggs, Matthew Dick, Jordan Lockyer, Ryan O'Keefe, Tommy Walsh, Lewis Roberts-Thomson

Rookie List
IN: Sean McLaren, Nic Newman, Lewis Melican, Jordan Foote
OUT: Patrick Mitchell (International Rookie), Jake Lloyd (Rookie Upgrade), Xavier Richards (Rookie Upgrade), Daniel Robinson (Rookie Upgrade)

From our list changes, as we are in a premiership window the biggest loss is N.Malceski. He was the only one in the grand final side and I dont think that we can replace him. We will definitely need someone to step up. In terms of replacements, be players like D.Rampe/J.Lloyd/Z.Jones/G.Rohan/J.Mveigh that will take on the work load left over from Malceski. If McVeigh plays a lot more time back, it will be players like T.Mitchell/I.Heeney/H.Cunningham that will get more chance in the midfield.

In terms of the other players lost, they will not hurt us to much as their output last year was minimal. I think that Membrey will be a good AFL player (I was disappointed loosing him), but I understand that he left for more opportunity.

In terms of our draft, well ,we got Heeney. He will definitely be challenging for a starting role next year. The rest of our ND I am a little bit Meh about, as we overreached with Hiscox and our only live pick was a HFF in Rose.

I am really happy with our Rookie draft. We got a player that may be able to stake a claim for Malceski's position in Nic Newman, and a couple of project KPP defenders in Sean McLaren, Lewis Melican.

All in all, getting Henney and relieving our salary cap pressure (loosing a 30 year old) has put us in a good position going forward to the OP's 5 year mark. However, we are yet to see the immediate impact of loosing Malceski and the consequences for next year.

 

[Suma Magic]

West Coast had a pretty quiet off-season. We delisted spuds and also lost two retirees, who had shown in 2014 that the game had moved past them, with neither contributing significantly to the team.

So not losing a single contributor to our 2014 campaign is a good thing. However, we also haven't brought in anyone who will be able to help us significantly from round 1 2015, which puts us behind the likes of Brisbane and Port.

I do like the fact that we have brought in two category b rookies. I have seen them both at training numerous times. Adamson looks very promising, while Brophy looks a mile off. I also think that Waterman is a good value pick-up.

Overall, I think our ins and outs should be view as average, or too early to tell. Maybe 4 out of 10 (assuming that 5/10 is the average).

Outs: Glass (retired; injury), Cox (retired; pushed out as Lycett went past him in 2014), Wilson (delisted), Brennan (delisted), Smith (delisted), Carter (delisted)

Ins: Duggan(ND11), Lamb(ND32), Nelson(ND51), Cavka(ND66), Waterman(f/s), Lucas(RD10), Adamson(cat b rookie), Brophy(cat b rookie)

 

[fishardansin]

This is a really interesting topic, am looking forward to read some more learned responses than I can offer.

If I were to single out one team's overall result, it would be Brisbane at first blush. Beams and Christensen are significant additions for a comparatively modest outlay, the academy drafting saw them get good value on those picks, and if Mcgrath can get his body right, he'll be a steal, I reckon. Add to that a Robinson with something to prove, not bad.

Melbourne also did very well, Lumumba is a consistent performer, Garlett has something to prove, the draft picks all look astute at this early stage of proceedings etc.

Thanks for the bump dude. I'd forgotten about this one. It would be great if we looked at it from two angles. Next year and 5 years down the track! I think next year is just as hard to guess as that long distance one.

I'm happy with Essendon for next year. Gwilt adds depth to KPPs and I actually think will be best 22 and Fletch will be the depth this year as we nurse him to 400. McKernan as depth ruckman is great because if one Bellchambers or Giles go down then the other is number 1 ruck while McKernan plays 2nd ruck. It also means if Hooker or Hurley go down then Carlisle could go back to defense for the year while McKernan plays forward. I really hope Pears captures he early career form this year to really have pressure for spots.

Cooney adds some to our mid/flanks now. Laverde adds some xfactor to that down the track, but being able to play forward I expect him to get some games in his first two seasons up forward before he builds and AFL level midfield tank.

The team I'm most interested in next year is Gold Coast. Sure they haven't had the biggest off season but Getting Wright is an interesting one as I think it sets them up well to trade out 2 or 3 talls over the next few seasons and all for top 30 picks. This will stretch out the age spread of their amazing high talent. If Ablett is back to have enough preseason I think just another year into O'Meara, Martin, Bennell and these guys will see it happen for them. Last year before Ablett went down and the team was playing well their KPPs started to come of age. If it all comes together I think this is the year they go bang. Not a premiership but pushing for top 4 and making Metricon a fortress.

The other team is Hawthorn. Can they do a threepeat? I think they'll be better this year than last. They managed their list through great difficulty this year and I don't think they will have to deal with that again. If they get a better run at it I expect them to be stronger. Port on the other hand have not had their depth tested and I don't think they can rely on that again. Conditioning looks much better when the majority of the list can train hard through the whole season rather than manage injuries, another reason to fear Hawthorn next year.

If what I forsee pans out it really makes a mockery of the AFL's equalisation policy. Geelong dominate with Doggies, Hawks, Saints, Swans and Pies sniffing around here and there. Then Hawks dominate with Freo, Port and Swans sniffing around. Then Gold Coast plus GWS dominating like we've never seen before. Think of Brisbane raised to the power of two!!

 

[Yoda_]

I don't mind the moves Essendon made this off season, they aren't going to win you a flag but realistically that's a few years off anyways. unless a club is willing to truly bottom out then what's wrong with a few trades that cost very little but keep you competitive in the short term.

Looking at the Brisbane list I think we have the bones for a very good side, we added some good youngsters last year. This off season Beams and Christensen add class with Mitch Robinson a huge bonus if he gets his head right.

The academy players in this draft look good but time will tell. They generally just don't have the exposure to strong week to week football at a young age that kids in the other states have.

List building takes 3 to 5 years if you truly need to turnaround a side.

How do you figure Essendon are a few more years off yet? Why else would we top up with Gwilt, Giles, Cooney, Chapman, Goddard in the last 3 off seasons?

 

[Wild Bill]

How do you figure Essendon are a few more years off yet? Why else would we top up with Gwilt, Giles, Cooney, Chapman, Goddard in the last 3 off seasons?

How do you figure that aren't a few more years off? Have not won a final in ten years and stuck in no man’s land between 8-11 the last few years. Not many would rate you much higher going into 2015.

Bringing in Cross and Byrnes did not push Melbourne into a Premiership window. Giles is 26.

 

[Yoda_]

How do you figure that aren't a few more years off? Have not won a final in ten years and stuck in no man’s land between 8-11 the last few years. Not many would rate you much higher going into 2015.

Bringing in Cross and Byrnes did not push Melbourne into a Premiership window. Giles is 26.

Having already brought in Goddard & Chapman in recent seasons, we have really loaded up with Giles, Gwilt and Cooney for a tilt at pushing us into the top 4.


We have proven we can match it with the best. Just needed that class to push us over the line in those crunch games at the pointy end of the season

 

[doona]

Having already brought in Goddard & Chapman in recent seasons, we have really loaded up with Giles, Gwilt and Cooney for a tilt at pushing us into the top 4.


We have proven we can match it with the best. Just needed that class to push us over the line in those crunch games at the pointy end of the season

Loosing Ryder was not in the plans though. From the Bombers games I watched, He was a key player in your team structure.

Giles is different to chapman/Gwilt/Cooney as he was brought in because your best ruckman quit.

 

[Yoda_]

Im going to say this once, and once only


A better mid table side does not simply load up on experienced, mature bodied players without thinking they can push towards the pinnacle

 

[dewah07]

Very happy with our offseason.

Adding De Goey to our young Mids in Adams, Freeman, Scharenberg, Kennedy, Broomhead and the like is a great result.

We also got the best performed KPF in the draft for Pick 9.

Lol.......

 

[Brett C]

How do you figure Essendon are a few more years off yet? Why else would we top up with Gwilt, Giles, Cooney, Chapman, Goddard in the last 3 off seasons?

So you honestly see Essendon winning a flag in the next 3-5 years?? I think you topped up with those players because your club couldn't afford to slump further down the ladder.

Outside of Goddard the other 4 players you mentioned are average players as best.

I look forward to those 5 being your best players when you have to field a VFL side after ASADA is finished.

You are way over rating your list if you think Essendon is better than ranked 7-12 in the comp. You'd be lucky to have 4 or 5 A grade players.

 

[doona]

A better mid table side does not simply load up on experienced, mature bodied players without thinking they can push towards the pinnacle

Gwilt & Giles are not players that a team should top up with if they are pushing for a premiership. These 2, you dont want in your best 22 come finals time.

Cooney & Chapman, have there place in a premiership push. Ill give you that.

 

[Yoda_]

So you honestly see Essendon winning a flag in the next 3-5 years?? I think you topped up with those players because your club couldn't afford to slump further down the ladder.

Outside of Goddard the other 4 players you mentioned are average players as best.

I look forward to those 5 being your best players when you have to field a VFL side after ASADA is finished.

You are way over rating your list if you think Essendon is better than ranked 7-12 in the comp. You'd be lucky to have 4 or 5 A grade players.

May I cast your eye back to round 17, 2013 when largely the same list was sitting pretty atop the AFL ladder with a 14 - 3 win:loss record?

It had beaten (a 3:1) Collingwood, Freo in Perth, a 6:4 Carlton. We had easily accounted for Melbourne (148 points), a finals bound Adelaide and whilst a disappointing loss to Brisbane mid year was the beginning, that start to the year highlighted what we were capable of.


As for the rest of your comments, grow up and leave those sorts of comments to the Hot Topics board. Im here to discuss football, if you want to talk ASADA/WADA/Carowhine/Robo/AndyD/Dank/Robinson/Hird/Little/whoever the **** you want about it take it to the relevant threads. Here is not the right place.

 

[Yoda_]

Gwilt & Giles are not players that a team should top up with if they are pushing for a premiership. These 2, you dont want in your best 22 come finals time.

Cooney & Chapman, have there place in a premiership push. Ill give you that.

To be honest, I think Gwilt was brought in as insurance for Fletcher whilst Giles was probably the best available ruck men we could get our hands on.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Main list ins- outs
Lever - rutten
Wigg - porplyzia
Cameron - petrenko
Cheney- l Thompson
Lowden -Graham
McGovern - Johnston
Dear -mckernan

Rutten is the only huge loss even struggling in his last season. Really need hartigan to step up to support Talia as Otten is injured for next season. This is the biggest risk for the crows. I expect lever will play games later in the year.

Cheney will be 3rd tall defender as Otten is injured & Shaw is usually injured too! Expect will play most games of our ins.

Porplyzia was a great player but no major loss from last season as body no longer up to rigours of afl. Cameron already showed more from rookie list than porps or pets!

We have cut our 3 deadwood tall ruckmen/forwards. Already have more depth as lowden will play if needed - we prefered playing an injured sauce to Graham! McGovern may play if we have injuries - dear I doubt will be ready.

I expect a development year for Wigg too.

 

[doona]

To be honest, I think Gwilt was brought in as insurance for Fletcher whilst Giles was probably the best available ruck men we could get our hands on.

I can see that with Giles. We got derickx because we only had Pyke on our list after Mumford left (but we still had Tippet/Reid/LRT to pinch hit and have a couple of good youngsters like Nankervis & Naismith). But these recruits for a team like Essendon do not inspire me where you are at (we were coming off a premiership).

But on your quote:

A better mid table side does not simply load up on experienced, mature bodied players without thinking they can push towards the pinnacle

I dont see Essendon at the same level as Hawks/Swans/Freo/Port so loading up on these types wont bring you closer to a premiership. Mid table mediocrity but not a premiership.

 

[Yoda_]

But on your quote:

I dont see Essendon at the same level as Hawks/Swans/Freo/Port so loading up on these types wont bring you closer to a premiership. Mid table mediocrity but not a premiership.

[i dont particularly care for your earlier quote re Giles, seems you misunderstand why we got Giles]

We have beaten Port Adelaide, we have beaten Freo, we have pushed Hawks to the last moments in a game. Sydney have always seemed to have been a bogey side for us.


We have shown we can match the top sides what don't you people understand about this?

 

[fronkalicious]

Brisbane IMO. Clearly added the best talent in beams and Christensen. Didn't need more draft kids. Super result for them.

Thought st kilda did well to move Stanley for Goddard and gws picking up griffen and patfull and still being able to add 3 top 10 picks was also pretty impressive.

2 worst I would say are North (higgins/Waite and lose greenwood???) and carlton (passed up wright for whiley, jaksch and boekhorst and added tutt/jones).