Best off season list changes

[dean33]

Im going to say this once, and once only


A better mid table side does not simply load up on experienced, mature bodied players without thinking they can push towards the pinnacle

many clubs have thought they are close to a flag and topped up prematurely in the passed... what makes you think the bombers are any different? Just because inside the club they may think this doesn't make it fact.

I also think they have topped up due to the draft penalties imposed..

 

[PieMan!]

Does any one other than a collingwood person, willing to give a view of on collingwood off-season list changes, Thanks.

 

[TN25]

Does any one other than a collingwood person, willing to give a view of on collingwood off-season list changes, Thanks.

I think they've done reasonably well. They lost two key players in Beams and Lumumba but picked up Greenwood, Crisp, De Goey and Varcoe for them. Stacked up their midfield for the future and got a decent player for a few years in Varcoe.

 

[DeGoedStuff]

Lol.......

Moore had the best year out of Wright & McCartin this year.

Most recruiters within the industry are of this opinion.

Moving forward, Moore is by far the KPP with the most upside in the draft.

 

[dewah07]

Moore had the best year out of Wright & McCartin this year.

Most recruiters within the industry are of this opinion.

Moving forward, Moore is by far the KPP with the most upside in the draft.

Moore struggled when he was played foward, that's why the chargers played him in defence. Every game I saw him play foward he didn't dominate, got shut down a few times. He'll be a solid defender but that's all I expect

 

[fishardansin]

I think Varcoe and Greenwood add a lot to their midfield depth. Though Beams going when Ball retires and Lamumba going when Maxwell retires could weaken those areas significantly and take more than a year to overcome.

 

[TN25]

Moore had the best year out of Wright & McCartin this year.

Most recruiters within the industry are of this opinion.

Moving forward, Moore is by far the KPP with the most upside in the draft.

McCartin and Wright are much better forwards. Moore does have the ability to play forward and defence but Wright also has that versatility, he is able to play forward/forward.

At TAC Cup level McCartin averaged 4 goals a game, Wright averaged 2.5 goals per game and Moore averaged a bit over one goal a game. At the U18 championships, Moore averaged 3 marks per game and Wright and McCartin both averaged four marks.

On what basis are you saying that Moore is better than Wright and McCartin

 

[DeGoedStuff]

Moore struggled when he was played foward, that's why the chargers played him in defence. Every game I saw him play foward he didn't dominate, got shut down a few times. He'll be a solid defender but that's all I expect

Utter crap.

Moore was named the AA U18 CHF (and TAC one) and Oakleigh played Moore as their CHF/FF in their two most important games for the year. He was also played as a forward exclusively for Vic Metro.

His finish to the year put him ahead of Wright & McCartin as he stood up in the major games as a dominant forward. Most AFL recruiters (and even ones here such as Skippos & Knightmare ) rate Moore as the best KPF in this draft.

 

[Knightmare]

Moore struggled when he was played foward, that's why the chargers played him in defence. Every game I saw him play foward he didn't dominate, got shut down a few times. He'll be a solid defender but that's all I expect

It sounds like you missed what Moore did v Sandy and Calder in his last two finals.

Moore played back for the majority of the season for developmental reasons. If he struggles anywhere if anything I would say he struggled in the back half as a guy who could beat his opponent but not provide any consistent or meaningful rebound.

Up forward where Moore rarely played but occasionally swung due to Oakleigh needing goals he really showed he could put his stamp on games and influence the outcome with some very meaningful touches and showing that he can dominate in a variety of the ways - with his freak athleticism, ground level ability but then also strong overhead marking ability in his own right.

Ranking Moore's performance of this year v the other forwards isn't so much applicable due to the fact that he was not consistently played forward. More important in projecting his career outcomes is his improvement shown (strong), his willingness to improve and coachability (near if not best in the draft) and his mix of traits (again elite by position with his mix of tricks as a guy who at ground level and overhead is capable but then also has excellent height and excellent athletic traits by position and a frame that suggests he will have no issue putting on further size).

On where Moore should play his career. It's a waste of talent having Moore back. Lever, Goddard, Marchbank and Oscar McDonald who went in the 50s are all better key defenders in my view. As a key forward Moore can be the best of the lot.

 

[dewah07]

It sounds like you missed what Moore did v Sandy and Calder in his last two finals.

Moore played back for the majority of the season for developmental reasons. If he struggles anywhere if anything I would say he struggled in the back half as a guy who could beat his opponent but not provide any consistent or meaningful rebound.

Up forward where Moore rarely played but occasionally swung due to Oakleigh needing goals he really showed he could put his stamp on games and influence the outcome with some very meaningful touches and showing that he can dominate in a variety of the ways - with his freak athleticism, ground level ability but then also strong overhead marking ability in his own right.

Ranking Moore's performance of this year v the other forwards isn't so much applicable due to the fact that he was not consistently played forward. More important in projecting his career outcomes is his improvement shown (strong), his willingness to improve and coachability (near if not best in the draft) and his mix of traits (again elite by position with his mix of tricks as a guy who at ground level and overhead is capable but then also has excellent height and excellent athletic traits by position and a frame that suggests he will have no issue putting on further size).

On where Moore should play his career. It's a waste of talent having Moore back. Lever, Goddard, Marchbank and Oscar McDonald who went in the 50s are all better key defenders in my view. As a key forward Moore can be the best of the lot.

I trust your judgment but I can only go off what I went to.

 

[Trav 20]

I trust your judgment but I can only go off what I went to.

You have an ally in Colin Wisbey, who's a better analyst of junior footballers than any of the prolific writers currently on BigFooty, although I really like Quigley, who didn't participate this year.

According to Wisbey re Moore (27/11/14):

"FWIW, I see Moore as very raw and his game is currently somewhat "all over the shop". On the plus side, at various moments he's shown glimpses of outstanding promise in just about every attribute. IMO he's got terrific upside and will very likely prove well worth the pick 9 we had to use. From what he's shown to date, will probably be best suited to KD (especially CHB) IMO but he's shown some promising glimpses as a fwd too."

 

[fronkalicious]

I think Varcoe and Greenwood add a lot to their midfield depth. Though Beams going when Ball retires and Lamumba going when Maxwell retires could weaken those areas significantly and take more than a year to overcome.

Beams is borderline irreplaceable. Massive, massive loss. A workhorse like greenwood doesn't come close to closing the gap IMO.

 

[mike123]

Beams is borderline irreplaceable. Massive, massive loss. A workhorse like greenwood doesn't come close to closing the gap IMO.

But a certain rownlow medalist coming to from will close the gap.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

Hawks absolutely killed it.

Getting Frawley and O'Rourke for nothing.

How do they keep doing it?

 

[King_Steele]

It sounds like you missed what Moore did v Sandy and Calder in his last two finals.

Moore played back for the majority of the season for developmental reasons. If he struggles anywhere if anything I would say he struggled in the back half as a guy who could beat his opponent but not provide any consistent or meaningful rebound.

Up forward where Moore rarely played but occasionally swung due to Oakleigh needing goals he really showed he could put his stamp on games and influence the outcome with some very meaningful touches and showing that he can dominate in a variety of the ways - with his freak athleticism, ground level ability but then also strong overhead marking ability in his own right.

Ranking Moore's performance of this year v the other forwards isn't so much applicable due to the fact that he was not consistently played forward. More important in projecting his career outcomes is his improvement shown (strong), his willingness to improve and coachability (near if not best in the draft) and his mix of traits (again elite by position with his mix of tricks as a guy who at ground level and overhead is capable but then also has excellent height and excellent athletic traits by position and a frame that suggests he will have no issue putting on further size).

On where Moore should play his career. It's a waste of talent having Moore back. Lever, Goddard, Marchbank and Oscar McDonald who went in the 50s are all better key defenders in my view. As a key forward Moore can be the best of the lot.

So why is he better than Patty McCartin then KM? Here are some stats that I found which doesn't include Moore. Food for thought.

McCartin is right up there with Tom Boyd, as far as averages go, so what does that tell you?


TAC Cup 2013-14
Paddy McCartin
Games: 13
Goals: 41
Average: 3.2
Marks: 108
Average: 8.3

TAC Cap 2012-13
Tom Boyd
Games: 20
Goals: 67
Average: 3.4
Marks: 121
Average: 6.1

TAC Cap 2012-13
Joe Daniher
Games: 20
Goals: 52
Average: 2.6
Marks: 153
Average: 7.7

TAC Cup 2010-11
Jon Patton
Games: 24
Goals: 57
Average: 2.4
(marks not avail)

 

[Mudeo]

So why is he better than Patty McCartin then KM? Here are some stats that I found which doesn't include Moore. Food for thought.

McCartin is right up there with Tom Boyd, as far as averages go, so what does that tell you?


TAC Cup 2013-14
Paddy McCartin
Games: 13
Goals: 41
Average: 3.2
Marks: 108
Average: 8.3

TAC Cap 2012-13
Tom Boyd
Games: 20
Goals: 67
Average: 3.4
Marks: 121
Average: 6.1

TAC Cap 2012-13
Joe Daniher
Games: 20
Goals: 52
Average: 2.6
Marks: 153
Average: 7.7

TAC Cup 2010-11
Jon Patton
Games: 24
Goals: 57
Average: 2.4
(marks not avail)

Your either trolling or just didnt read his post. He is saying that his numbers arent going to reflect that of a KPF because he was predominantly played as a back.

He did say tho that his attributes and the signs he has showed as a forward have the ability to be the best of the draft.

 

[King_Steele]

Your either trolling or just didnt read his post. He is saying that his numbers arent going to reflect that of a KPF because he was predominantly played as a back.

He did say tho that his attributes and the signs he has showed as a forward have the ability to be the best of the draft.

But my point is, if big Darcy Moore is so goooddddd as a forward, he would have played there all year, does Nick Riewoldt ever play defence?

 

[DeGoedStuff]

But my point is, if big Darcy Moore is so goooddddd as a forward, he would have played there all year, does Nick Riewoldt ever play defence?

The game now is all about versatility.

Look at Hawthorn and Roughead and the way they play him.

McCartin nor any player in this draft can do the things a Darcy does allover the ground.

 

[Knightmare]

So why is he better than Patty McCartin then KM? Here are some stats that I found which doesn't include Moore. Food for thought.

McCartin is right up there with Tom Boyd, as far as averages go, so what does that tell you?


TAC Cup 2013-14
Paddy McCartin
Games: 13
Goals: 41
Average: 3.2
Marks: 108
Average: 8.3

TAC Cap 2012-13
Tom Boyd
Games: 20
Goals: 67
Average: 3.4
Marks: 121
Average: 6.1

TAC Cap 2012-13
Joe Daniher
Games: 20
Goals: 52
Average: 2.6
Marks: 153
Average: 7.7

TAC Cup 2010-11
Jon Patton
Games: 24
Goals: 57
Average: 2.4
(marks not avail)

I am exceptionally aware of McCartin's stats. It's less what McCartin has done when he has played. McCartin is a better forward than Moore today if they're the two you're comparing. Just McCartin's diabetes scares the heck out of me. AFL is so professional today and the training and intensity and running required in games is on another level and only going to continue that way. Simply put I could not justify using a top 2 pick on McCartin this year, let alone top pick.

Moore for upside I prefer as a guy who like McCartin has the overhead/ground level combination along with the size and athleticism but has that extra height and additional leadership qualities as perhaps the highest character guy in the draft. And add that to the fact that Moore comes without the diabetes and Moore is my preference of the two long term.

Regarding Moore being played back this year. He was played back for the majority of the year under Collingwood's instruction - specifically for developmental purposes.

 

[etsal1]

Hawks absolutely killed it.

Getting Frawley and O'Rourke for nothing.

How do they keep doing it?

How did they get O'Rourke for free?

 

[TN25]

How did they get O'Rourke for free?

They didn't get him for free. They basically lost him for pick 19. Not much and if you look who was picked up with pick 19. Blaine Boekhorst

Boekhorst + 3 pick downgrade FOR Jono O'Rourke. Barely anything

 

[etsal1]

They didn't get him for free. They basically lost him for pick 19. Not much and if you look who was picked up with pick 19. Blaine Boekhorst

Boekhorst + 3 pick downgrade FOR Jono O'Rourke. Barely anything

What 3 pick downgrade?

 

[TN25]

What 3 pick downgrade?

The trade was pick 19 + pick 40 FOR O'Rourke + pick 43

They lost pick 40 and received pick 43. That is a three pick downgrade

 

[aussierulesrules]

I've gotta say, I would have preferred to have gotten Laverde than O'Rourke. Goddard as well, but in Hawthorn's case they probably don't need his type.

 

[etsal1]

The trade was pick 19 + pick 40 FOR O'Rourke + pick 43

They lost pick 40 and received pick 43. That is a three pick downgrade

Got it.

To assume Hawthorn would've picked Boekhorst @ 19 if they had kept it is a little presumptuous. They may have taken Laverde. O'Rourke is no sure thing either.