Bill Shorten finally gets it...

[Bosun]

Well, I should clarify.. they look after the union fat cats who in turn as part of them being fat cats help out the little guy marginally.

They have no interest in the little guy.

 

[Bradesmaen]

They have no interest in the little guy.

I know, but they help them out...

 

[Smiling Buddha]

It's very obvious Labor drags its feet on gay marriage because Catholic union leaders and their subfactions hate the gays. Labor's voter base and the general public have supported the idea for years (Liberal's voter base and membership is genuinely full of people who look down on the homos).

Gillard and Rudd would have loved to got their face attached to such an easy feel good moment.

Fair points but I think Australia's favourite Uncle had a bit of a hand in this one as well.

Smart move by Shorten. IMO one of Labors weaknesses is that the majority of their politicians are drawn from a very narrow group of occupations and backgrounds.

Unlike the diversity presented by the Liberals' band of wealthy, Anglo lawyers.

 

[Pessimistic]

It's very obvious Labor drags its feet on gay marriage because Catholic union leaders and their subfactions hate the gays. Labor's voter base and the general public have supported the idea for years (Liberal's voter base and membership is genuinely full of people who look down on the homos).

Gillard and Rudd would have loved to got their face attached to such an easy feel good moment.

Why would labor go out on a limb to help gays who probably vote liberal anyway ?

The sneering "if you were truly progressive youd back gay marriage" angle instead of giving a decent argument why.

I can see perfectly well why the ALP wont be used that way

 

[Smiling Buddha]

The problem with Labor is they have forgotten their roots. They are supposed to be the left wing party that is for the working class. They have forgotten both those things and in the last few decades have just became a slightly less right wing Liberal Party.

"When I joined the Labor Party it contained the cream of the working class; now it contains the dregs of the middle class"
-Kim Beazley Sr

 

[Pessimistic]

Never got the point that a woman who didnt feel the need to marry should naturally be an advocate for gay marriage

 

[Gus Poyet]

It's very obvious Labor drags its feet on gay marriage because Catholic union leaders and their subfactions hate the gays. Labor's voter base and the general public have supported the idea for years (Liberal's voter base and membership is genuinely full of people who look down on the homos).

Gillard and Rudd would have loved to got their face attached to such an easy feel good moment.

What a load of crap.

Labor's support is full of bogan working class people who don't like gays, immigrants and anything else you'll try and pin on Liberal voters.

There's a reson why Labor have never done anything about gay marriage and the like. They know that more than a few of their traditional safe seats are full of the people you try to pin down as being Liberal voters.

It's the same reason Labor wanted to keep the White Australia policy going when the Liberals finally ditched it.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Unlike the diversity presented by the Liberals' band of wealthy, Anglo lawyers.

There's plenty of diversity nation wide in the working backgrounds of the Liberals.

Labor could do with more diversity.

 

[Power Raid]

Thats how it should work, but in politics these days, thats not how it works. Liberals look after their fat cats, Labor the little guys.

Union officials taking millions in kick backs are hardly the little guys. It seems some don't know who the fat cats are!

 

[Pessimistic]

There's plenty of diversity nation wide in the working backgrounds of the Liberals.

Labor could do with more diversity.

When i see party faithful handing out how to vote cards, they all look very similar to me. They probably have a lot in common with each other if they could see past the tribalism

 

[Gus Poyet]

Union officials taking millions in kick backs are hardly the little guys. It seems some don't know who the fat cats are!

haha good point. Union pigs have had their snouts in the trough for a hell of a long time.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

There's plenty of diversity nation wide in the working backgrounds of the Liberals.

Quick websearch couldn't find total caucus numbers but here are the Cabinet figures:

 

[Gus Poyet]

Quick websearch couldn't find total caucus numbers but here are the Cabinet figures:

Where is the stat for Indigenous members? I would have thought that an important statistic.

As would "union member".

Me thinks that's been created by a Labor lap dog to try and prove some point.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Gus, you would benefit from looking at the Coalition objectively rather than through a 'Liberal vs Labor' false paradigm.

Representative democracy does not work if its participants all treat it as a team sport.

I'm not here to defend the ALP; I am one of their biggest critics.

I just apply the same critical line of thinking to every other party as well.

As we all should.

 

[WA ROO]

Shorten tries to lessen the choke hold the unions have on the ALP he will get it alright

Just like Rudd and Gillard

 

[Gus Poyet]

Gus, you would benefit from looking at the Coalition objectively rather than through a 'Liberal vs Labor' false paradigm.

Representative democracy does not work if its participants all treat it as a team sport.

I'm not here to defend the ALP; I am one of their biggest critics.

I just apply the same critical line of thinking to every other party as well.

As we all should.

I have looked at is objectively.

Objectively history shows the Liberals/Nationals have been the first to embrace diversity.

From the dismantling of the White Australia Policy to providing the first three elected indigenous politicians in the nation.

Labor being the bastion of diversity is a myth.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Shorten tries to lessen the choke hold the unions have on the ALP he will get it alright

Just like Rudd and Gillard

Perhaps they don't have the hold they once did.

Only 18% of the workforce is unionised now. Not all of them vote Labor.

So realistically the larger % of people who vote Labor are not unionists these days.

 

[samFFC]

Why would labor go out on a limb to help gays who probably vote liberal anyway ?

The sneering "if you were truly progressive youd back gay marriage" angle instead of giving a decent argument why.

I can see perfectly well why the ALP wont be used that way

A decent argument might be: the majority of Australians support it (as do a majority of Labor members).

In addition, there are economic, social and cultural benefits domestically, as well as providing a strong international message of Australia's commitment to equality.

The ALP has steadily leaked votes over the past few decades, and this has been accelerated in recent years. Whether their ongoing failure to push for same-sex marriage is a cause or symptom of the problem is irrelevant. Labor is being comfortably surpassed on many social issues, to an ever-growing extent.

 

[samFFC]

I have looked at is objectively.

Objectively history shows the Liberals/Nationals have been the first to embrace diversity.

From the dismantling of the White Australia Policy to providing the first three elected indigenous politicians in the nation.

Labor being the bastion of diversity is a myth.

While I do agree with aspects of your points, there are certainly areas of diversity that the Coalition have clearly been the slower to embrace, for instance diversity in:
-gender
-religion
-sexual orientation

I would say neither party is truly a bastion of diversity. So yes Labor being it is indeed a myth, but neither is the Coalition.

 

[Pessimistic]

A decent argument might be: the majority of Australians support it (as do a majority of Labor members).

In addition, there are economic, social and cultural benefits domestically, as well as providing a strong international message of Australia's commitment to equality.

The ALP has steadily leaked votes over the past few decades, and this has been accelerated in recent years. Whether their ongoing failure to push for same-sex marriage is a cause or symptom of the problem is irrelevant. Labor is being comfortably surpassed on many social issues, to an ever-growing extent.

In truth, you just repeated the same statement i made, but padded it out s bit

 

[pazza]

First up, when I joined the old LHMU (United Voice), there was never a separate application form to join the Labor Party. And as yet I haven't joined that (nor will i).

I think there has been genuine steps to reform, but, it's a slow process.

 

[pjcrows]

The problem with Labor is they have forgotten their roots. They are supposed to be the left wing party that is for the working class. They have forgotten both those things and in the last few decades have just became a slightly less right wing Liberal Party.

Nailed it.

 

[pjcrows]

It's like Labor dont actually want to get their s**t together.

They prefer to continue their internal hatred for each others' factions and history, rather than uniting to govern.

 

[pjcrows]

Thats how it should work, but in politics these days, thats not how it works. Liberals look after their fat cats, Labor the little guys.

They both look after their fat cats, it's just that the Liberals don't pretend otherwise.

 

[samFFC]

In truth, you just repeated the same statement i made, but padded it out s bit

I thought you didn't support SSM?