Bitcoin & Bitcoin Mining

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It’s an end stage ponzi scheme.

If you’re not in, don’t. If you’re in, good luck getting out.
 

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Some argue that all of capitalism and the computerised version of limitless money is a Ponzi scheme, and I agree. We’re going to keep on with the Ponzi scheme until it gets disrupted by natural limits of growth. But that’s for another thread.
 
ash_1050 said:
The SEC has been shutting down crypto ponzi schemes (Bitconnect, ProCurrency) and they've said that Bitcoin has been used in ponzi schemes, but they've never investigated Bitcoin as being a ponzi scheme. If the SEC has all but ok'd it I'd say it's not a ponzi scheme.
Click to expand...

It Tazo’s but on the internet.

This is a good summary of its Ponzi properties

Bitcoin is a Ponzi

www.ic.unicamp.br

Also the role of Tether, which is just printing out of thin air, is interesting.
 
Messenger said:
It Tazo’s but on the internet.

This is a good summary of its Ponzi properties

Bitcoin is a Ponzi

www.ic.unicamp.br

Also the role of Tether, which is just printing out of thin air, is interesting.
Click to expand...

Jorge Stolfi doesn't define what a ponzi scheme is, in this case the SEC does. Jorge has already written to the SEC in 2016 crying ponzi and they ignored him. I can write an article about the US Fed or superannuation being a ponzi scheme, that doesn't make it so.

Referring to Bitcoin specifically (as opposed to crypto) as a ponzi is like referring to beanie babies or as you say, tazos, as a ponzi. At their basic level ponzi schemes are a scheme that guarantees profits and uses the new funds to pay out the old funds until it is no longer able to do so, which isn't something Bitcoin has ever been associated with.

Beanie babies, tazos, bitcoin, gold, or anything else that is similar has a value attributed to it based on what people think it's worth at that point in time. The same reason a 1st edition Charizard pokemon card is worth US$20k is the same reason a Bitcoin is worth $30k today, that's the value people perceive it to have as a finite resource that's rarer and harder to obtain today than it was initially, the only difference is one is digital and the other is physical. The in between version of this is Hearthstone Online, where digital cards are worth thousands of dollars, despite not actually existing. The fact that these items have value which exceeds what you'd be willing to pay for them does not make them a ponzi.

Agreed on Tether, for something that is supposed to be backed 1-1 by physical USD there isn't a hell of a lot of documentation to support that claim. Anyone using USDT does so at their own risk. Side note I wouldn't call USDT a possible ponzi scheme either, it's closer to your Enron fraud where the book values are adjusted or deliberately vague.
 
ash_1050 said:
Jorge Stolfi doesn't define what a ponzi scheme is, in this case the SEC does. Jorge has already written to the SEC in 2016 crying ponzi and they ignored him. I can write an article about the US Fed or superannuation being a ponzi scheme, that doesn't make it so.

Referring to Bitcoin specifically (as opposed to crypto) as a ponzi is like referring to beanie babies or as you say, tazos, as a ponzi. At their basic level ponzi schemes are a scheme that guarantees profits and uses the new funds to pay out the old funds until it is no longer able to do so, which isn't something Bitcoin has ever been associated with.
Click to expand...

Well I’ll take issue with “guarantees profit” as a requirement to be a Ponzi but Bitcoin is spruiked with a religious zeal as being an alternate currency (not so much) and a store of value (volatile and bubble like).

as to the second point, well the only way you’re getting your Bitcoin converted to fiat is someone buying it, so yes new funds replace old funds.

ash_1050 said:
Beanie babies, tazos, bitcoin, gold, or anything else that is similar has a value attributed to it based on what people think it's worth at that point in time. The same reason a 1st edition Charizard pokemon card is worth US$20k is the same reason a Bitcoin is worth $30k today, that's the value people perceive it to have as a finite resource that's rarer and harder to obtain today than it was initially, the only difference is one is digital and the other is physical. The in between version of this is Hearthstone Online, where digital cards are worth thousands of dollars, despite not actually existing. The fact that these items have value which exceeds what you'd be willing to pay for them does not make them a ponzi.
Click to expand...

Tazos, gold, tulips. It’s all speculation.

Its more froth and bubble than substance at this stage.

ash_1050 said:
Agreed on Tether, for something that is supposed to be backed 1-1 by physical USD there isn't a hell of a lot of documentation to support that claim. Anyone using USDT does so at their own risk. Side note I wouldn't call USDT a possible ponzi scheme either, it's closer to your Enron fraud where the book values are adjusted or deliberately vague.
Click to expand...

Tether has hairs on it. Open question as to what part Tether is playing in supporting the underlying Btc price. They are traded at much higher volumes than other cryptos and Tether has increased the volume fivefold since March (now $21B!). Tether was originally meant to be backed 1:1 with USD, then with a basket of currencies, then with assets but who knows because there has never been an audit.
 
I just wish I had spare funds back in 2017 to buy some Bitcoin. Already missed the early boat but even the 2017 boat could have netted me a tidy sum.
 
PoppedCorn said:
Yes investment firms worldwide are putting 100s of millions of $$ into a pozi scheme...banks too

Lol
Click to expand...

LOL indeed. Good luck with your projects
 
Freak Dodgeball Accident said:
How do you think I feel. Had around 400 bitcoins at one stage back in 2013, most of them went up my nose.
Click to expand...
iu
 

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Freak Dodgeball Accident said:
How do you think I feel. Had around 400 bitcoins at one stage back in 2013, most of them went up my nose.
Click to expand...

Me too, I used them as currency and bought stuff in Europe when PayPal banned the research chemical crowd. I just thought it was a new type of PayPal. I didn’t have 400Btc but I would have had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth in today’s markets.
 
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I just cashed out and deleted the coin jar app from my phone. I doubled my money on uniswap from $4500 to $9000 but it’s all getting ridiculous. I’m a gambling addict so when I start getting obsessive and checking the markets every hour it’s time to go. One new token called Stellar Lumen went up by 100% in a few days.

From memory the last big crash happened at Chinese New Year? That’s coming up soon and when billions of Chinese BTC exit the market the lemmings will follow.

I’m not going back in unless there’s a serious market correction.
 
No I do not I cannot keep track of all the new tokens
 
bresker said:
One new token called Stellar Lumen went up by 100% in a few days.

From memory the last big crash happened at Chinese New Year? That’s coming up soon and when billions of Chinese BTC exit the market the lemmings will follow.
Click to expand...

Every single aspect of that statement is factually incorrect.
*Stellar isn't new, it's been around since 2014
*Stellar tripled in price over 72 hours between Jan 4 and Jan 7
*The last big crash didn't happen at Chinese new year
*There's not billions of BTC
*Chinese new year doesn't impact the price of Bitcoin

Congrats on the profits though.
 
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The current zeal for Bitcoin would be comparable to someone taking a random currency, say Norwegian krone, and buying them and buying them until the price snowballs along and everyone else piles in. If it’s not a Ponzi scheme its an overpriced currency. It’s tied to nothing. No gold standard, no sterling, just an algorithm.

Bitcoin is gradually being adopted as a currency but there’s no particular reason why one BTC should go from $4000 AUD to $44,000 BTC in such a short space of time when the actual value is just numbers on a computer screen.

It is a type of mania, it appeals to the gambler within us not the realist. I enjoy playing it too much so I’m out for a while.
 
bresker said:
No I do not I cannot keep track of all the new tokens
Click to expand...
One of the worlds oldest banks is issuing a stable euro coin on xlm and also the Ukrainian govt just announced this
cryptocrunchapp.com

Ukraine’s Government Selects Stellar Blockchain Network To Build CBDC

Ukraine’s government announced the Stellar blockchain network as a platform to build a central bank digital currency (CBDC). The partnership with Stellar will be the basis of its virtual currency development and its integration into the global financial ecosystem according to Digital...
cryptocrunchapp.com cryptocrunchapp.com

And xlm isnt new as its been around for over 6 years
Certianly not a s**t coin
 
bresker said:
I just cashed out and deleted the coin jar app from my phone. I doubled my money on uniswap from $4500 to $9000 but it’s all getting ridiculous. I’m a gambling addict so when I start getting obsessive and checking the markets every hour it’s time to go. One new token called Stellar Lumen went up by 100% in a few days.

From memory the last big crash happened at Chinese New Year? That’s coming up soon and when billions of Chinese BTC exit the market the lemmings will follow.

I’m not going back in unless there’s a serious market correction.
Click to expand...

I owned roughly 5000 Stellar Lumens and sold them little more than a fortnight ago so you can imagine my disappointment when I found out the Ukrainian's were using it to develop their digital currency. But I'm just happy I made a relatively decent profit (about $600) for something that I admit I know very little about. I owned some prior to 2017 and sold during the last 'bullrun' and won't be investing again until this boom experiences some sort of pull back.
 
PoppedCorn said:
One of the worlds oldest banks is issuing a stable euro coin on xlm and also the Ukrainian govt just announced this
cryptocrunchapp.com

Ukraine’s Government Selects Stellar Blockchain Network To Build CBDC

Ukraine’s government announced the Stellar blockchain network as a platform to build a central bank digital currency (CBDC). The partnership with Stellar will be the basis of its virtual currency development and its integration into the global financial ecosystem according to Digital...
cryptocrunchapp.com cryptocrunchapp.com

And xlm isnt new as its been around for over 6 years
Certianly not a sh*t coin
Click to expand...

What is a 'stable euro coin'?
 
Taylor said:
I think you're seeing the results of stock markets being saturated above value with more money seeking to invest, finding a place for it to go.
Click to expand...
And you would be correct. This is just what hyperinflation looks like when all the printed money goes to the extremely wealthy (either directly or from flows through the economy).

$4.5trn has to go somewhere. And it's not just BTC either.

Consider the following: you are an extremely rich individual already heavily exposed to high quality stocks and bonds, traditional more liquid assets (e.g. gold), private equity and real estate. Suddenly a few billion extra dollars is thrown your way that you have to stick somewhere. What can you do? Interest rates are abysmal everywhere so cash is a no-go, you're already over exposed with everything high quality and real estate is too illiquid. So you end up chucking it in unconventional assets like BTC and also lower quality bonds and stocks (just check out the market caps of some truly iffy companies).

I wonder if huge amounts of capital flowing down to shitter and shitter quality investments has ever caused any problems before...?
 
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And the cocaine money . There’s only so many guns, brothels, avacado plantations etc one cartel can buy. White lines, pound for pound, more expensive than gold.

Some say it was only the liquidity from the drug market that saved us from more heartache during the global financial crisis. No one else wanted to move money but cocaine needs to.
 
Scotland said:
What is a 'stable euro coin'?
Click to expand...

Its a token back by currency. So if they issue 10M tokens they are meant to have the back of the equivalent value in euro.
 
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