List Mgmt. Blair Hartley Project 2015

[pebblestone]

Freo ruckman who appears to be out of favour. With Sandi's retirement looming he may not be interested but I reckon he can play. Currently 3Rd in line at Freo.

 

[WATiger86]

This thread is too long to scroll thru. Has anyone ever done a list of the mature players that have come to the club since the end of 09?? Blairs time.
At a guess there would be somewhere around 25 - 30 mature players come to the club since 09.

I would say You could count on one hand the good players. It would be great to get as many high quality players as we can. Imo we havent snared one yet. Miles may be one.
This is the problem far too many blokes we have to eventually turn over or upgrade on anyway.

I for one wonder about Blair. Unlike a kid, With these mature blokes you have a track record to judge them by. Should't we be getting most of these types of selections right.

My count is 21 since 2010 (When Blair started at the club). Not sure if he had anything to do with Mitch Farmer but have included him as he debuted in 2010. Lots of depth added with a few wins (best 22 players) here and there. The failures have mainly been rookies so you can't be too critical of his work.

Re-treads:

Main List (acquired by FA or in the ND):
Mitch Farmer - Dud, de-listed
Bachar Houli - Win
Shaun Grigg - Win
Ivan Maric - Win
Aaron Edwards - Depth at best
Chris Knights - What could have been if not for injury
Troy Chaplain - Win
Shaun Hampson - Paid too much but fills an important hole in the list
Nathan Gordon - Depth at best
Taylor Hunt - Too early to call but looks at least reasonable depth and is only on a one year deal

Rookie List (Cost us next to nothing):
Brad Miller - was serviceable depth
Addam Maric - great VFL player, one tackle wonder
Ricky Petterd - good depth
Sam Lonergan - TB4 Fail
Orren Stephenson - depth
Todd Banfield - Fail
Matt Thomas - depth
Anthony Miles - Massive steal

"Mature" players:
Steve Morris - Not having the best year but has been decent and is apart of the player voted leadership group
Sam Lloyd - hardly mature but reasonable depth
Kane Lambert (Rookie) too early to call, unfortunate injury

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

My count is 21 since 2010 (When Blair started at the club). Not sure if he had anything to do with Mitch Farmer but have included him as he debuted in 2010. Lots of depth added with a few wins (best 22 players) here and there. The failures have mainly been rookies so you can't be too critical of his work.

Re-treads:

Main List (acquired by FA or in the ND):
Mitch Farmer - Dud, de-listed
Bachar Houli - Win
Shaun Grigg - Win
Ivan Maric - Win
Aaron Edwards - Depth at best
Chris Knights - What could have been if not for injury
Troy Chaplain - Win
Shaun Hampson - Paid too much but fills an important hole in the list
Nathan Gordon - Depth at best
Taylor Hunt - Too early to call but looks at least reasonable depth and is only on a one year deal

Rookie List (Cost us next to nothing):
Brad Miller - was serviceable depth
Addam Maric - great VFL player, one tackle wonder
Ricky Petterd - good depth
Sam Lonergan - TB4 Fail
Orren Stephenson - depth
Todd Banfield - Fail
Matt Thomas - depth
Anthony Miles - Massive steal

"Mature" players:
Steve Morris - Not having the best year but has been decent and is apart of the player voted leadership group
Sam Lloyd - hardly mature but reasonable depth
Kane Lambert (Rookie) too early to call, unfortunate injury

Great work, loved the TB4 fail
Agreed with just about everything 100%

 

[richoatthedisco]

Blair Hartley was involved in the Mitch Farmer trade - he was the guy at Port saying: "We'll give you Farmer for Schulz, deal?"

 

[johnno77]

you gotta spend money to make money

Would you give up Corey Ellis and Ben Lennon for Shiel and nothing else? I wouldn't and by giving up Lennon and our first pick this year, that's roughly what we'd be doing if some on here were in charge of recruiting. If Sheil declares he's coming back to Vic no matter what, we shouldn't have to give up 2 first round picks. I doubt they'd be looking for a Lennon type anyway. They've got Jed Lamb and a host of others who can't get a game as it is.

 

[_DBF_]

Blair Hartley was involved in the Mitch Farmer trade - he was the guy at Port saying: "We'll give you Farmer for Schulz, deal?"

So massive tick!

 

[Stylo]

Would you give up Corey Ellis and Ben Lennon for Shiel and nothing else? I wouldn't and by giving up Lennon and our first pick this year, that's roughly what we'd be doing if some on here were in charge of recruiting. If Sheil declares he's coming back to Vic no matter what, we shouldn't have to give up 2 first round picks. I doubt they'd be looking for a Lennon type anyway. They've got Jed Lamb and a host of others who can't get a game as it is.

That's true, but what types are they looking for now, if any? KPD maybe?

 

[_DBF_]

Would you give up Corey Ellis and Ben Lennon for Shiel and nothing else? I wouldn't and by giving up Lennon and our first pick this year, that's roughly what we'd be doing if some on here were in charge of recruiting. If Sheil declares he's coming back to Vic no matter what, we shouldn't have to give up 2 first round picks. I doubt they'd be looking for a Lennon type anyway. They've got Jed Lamb and a host of others who can't get a game as it is.

I'm not potting you, but I'm sure you want Shiel. Hampson plus Petterd plus Gordon won't cut it. I'd be interested to see how you think we could viably attain him without giving up something we might not want to.

 

[johnno77]

That's true, but what types are they looking for now, if any? KPD maybe?

They probably want to continue to add high draft picks and spread their age profile. We would probably have to involve a 3rd club like Melbourne, Brisbane or Carlton who are looking to do 2 for 1 deals similar to the one Melbourne did with GWS a couple of years ago that landed them Tyson.

Maybe you're right on the KPD. Do we offer Elton or Astbury and our first pick? I heard somewhere that one option open to Rance was a move to a city where he was more anonymous. In that case, it would be a straight swap or they would have to give us something given he's clearly the best defender in the comp currently.

I'm not potting you, but I'm sure you want Shiel. Hampson plus Petterd plus Gordon won't cut it. I'd be interested to see how you think we could viably attain him without giving up something we might not want to.

Not sure where I've ever made such a ridiculous suggestion. Anywhere. Regarding any player trade. EVER. See above for a possible solution. Like I said, our midfield needs to keep building depth as well as quality. I wouldn't be giving up 2 guys that should be able to play through there at a high level and replace them with one. Especially if he demands a trade and threatens to walk. Brisbane got reamed by 4 players who did it.

 

[TJTIGER]

Just checked the AFL website. Interestingly we were one of 4 clubs that sent reps over to the states for the US prospects who were being tested. I think the others were Nth,St's & blooze. GooD to see that the club is doing all the necessary checks. Some of the guys are huge & incredible athletes...

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-05-20/us-prospects-on-show


Be great if we nailed one as a future Ruck or similar....

 

[TJTIGER]

So massive tick!

They should corner him in an office and play stacks on as a thanks for the deal.........I'd like to be there for that.

 

[mopsy]

My count is 21 since 2010 (When Blair started at the club). Not sure if he had anything to do with Mitch Farmer but have included him as he debuted in 2010. Lots of depth added with a few wins (best 22 players) here and there. The failures have mainly been rookies so you can't be too critical of his work.

Re-treads:

Main List (acquired by FA or in the ND):
Mitch Farmer - Dud, de-listed
Bachar Houli - Win
Shaun Grigg - Win
Ivan Maric - Win
Aaron Edwards - Depth at best
Chris Knights - What could have been if not for injury
Troy Chaplain - Win
Shaun Hampson - Paid too much but fills an important hole in the list
Nathan Gordon - Depth at best
Taylor Hunt - Too early to call but looks at least reasonable depth and is only on a one year deal

Rookie List (Cost us next to nothing):
Brad Miller - was serviceable depth
Addam Maric - great VFL player, one tackle wonder
Ricky Petterd - good depth
Sam Lonergan - TB4 Fail
Orren Stephenson - depth
Todd Banfield - Fail
Matt Thomas - depth
Anthony Miles - Massive steal

"Mature" players:
Steve Morris - Not having the best year but has been decent and is apart of the player voted leadership group
Sam Lloyd - hardly mature but reasonable depth
Kane Lambert (Rookie) too early to call, unfortunate injury

Thanks for that, great work. If we include Farmer from 2010 should we include Webberley and Roberts. Tom Derickx comes to mind as well.
I liked Ben Jakobi i cant remember how old he was when we got him.

I suppose the next question to ask is are all those players down to just Blair?. How much responsibility does the recruiting team have. Id say they all have some sort of input.

The above is nothing to write home about. Mainly fails and depth with a handful of servicable blokes. Add the fact we struggle to find players past the first round in the ND. Plus we have found few diamonds in the rough with rookie picks and we can all see why we have not become a top 4 side and dont look like it.

Surely all areas of recruiting needs an urgent review and something more than a band aid applied to the obvious problems.

 

[Coxy_]

Blair Hartley was involved in the Mitch Farmer trade - he was the guy at Port saying: "We'll give you Farmer for Schulz, deal?"

Pete Rohde

 

[Thrillhouse!]

What would motlop be worth?
Out of contract at the end of the year.
Addresses a need.

 

[tora tora tora]

You make some very good points there. That LOOKS like a midfield to take us to the top tier.
But we thought we were top 4 bound after beating Carlton....

But anyway based on your points above if we get him on the cheap(ish) then yeah, go for it if he's 100% fully fit without any lingering concerns..
Didn't realise he was 186cm, thought he was basically Miles mkII.

I think your best point there was about making the opposition worry more about us when loading up with our attacking weapons, as opposed to the negative Morris tactic..
Imagine we did that ALL the time and then had Shiel, ok Selwood then, Vlastuin, Ellis B and Ellis C (any Ellis A we can pick up in the league somewhere?), Miles, Conca, Grigg and (McDonough??) carrying our midfield, with Cotchin Deledio Edwards and Martin spending more time forward of centre.
Plent of run off the back with Houli and Menadue, and weapons weapons weapons up forward. Actually starts to sound really bloody good.
Since I love a 22, let's just that put that here-

Batchelor - Astbury - Chaplin/Elton/Griffiths
Houli - Rance - Menadue
B Ellis - Cotchin - Shiel
Martin - Vickery - Deledio
Edwards - Riewoldt - Griffiths/McBean
Maric - Selwood - Vlastuin
Miles - C Ellis - Grigg - Conca/McIntosh

emerg/ Grimes - McDonough - Lennon


- I do actually think Vickery might make our no.1 ruck after Maric, has a future there.
- It's criminal that Lennon isn't even in the best 22...possible trade to help get Shiel over the line..?

I've been watching Ty & Griff in the ruck & they both very much part timers.
Both suck at centre bounces, but are slightly better in other contests.
When Ivan goes I reckon we need to replace him with a bona fide ruckman who can contribute around the ground (Mumford woulda been nice )

 

[WATiger86]

Thanks for that, great work. If we include Farmer from 2010 should we include Webberley and Roberts. Tom Derickx comes to mind as well.
I liked Ben Jakobi i cant remember how old he was when we got him.

I thought about webberley, Roberts and derickx, but were they actually that old? State leaguers as opposed to TAC cup players, but didn't think they were that old...

The whole point of bringing in the re-treads was to increase the depth of the squad during the compromised drafts - if that was blairs remit, he nailed it. If it was to bring in gun players he's failed. Money on it being the former though.

In any case now that the draft is back to normal I hope we shelve the recycled player strategy in leiu of using our ND picks

 

[mopsy]

I thought about webberley, Roberts and derickx, but were they actually that old? State leaguers as opposed to TAC cup players, but didn't think they were that old...

The whole point of bringing in the re-treads was to increase the depth of the squad during the compromised drafts - if that was blairs remit, he nailed it. If it was to bring in gun players he's failed. Money on it being the former though.

In any case now that the draft is back to normal I hope we shelve the recycled player strategy in leiu of using our ND picks

i sort of agree with you to a degree.
I understand why we went and got Houli Grigg,big Ivan, I even understand the reasoning behind Miller.The simple fact for me is there were other options to most of who we took and they were far better options. Even this yr just 3 or 4 sliding door moments and we have Garlett, Frawley Hallahan, yet we didnt even look.

As for shelving recycled players. Gotta disagree sorry. Free agency and good trades is the only way to immediately improve your list. Just look at the 3 players i mentioned.
Just because we have been mainly poor in our choices, it doesn't mean we should not address what we do wrong when recruiting, and then target our share of mature players. There has been so many mature types who have gone to other clubs over the last 5 yrs. If we had taken some of them we would be in much better shape than we are now.

 

[W. Smithers]

Would you give up Corey Ellis and Ben Lennon for Shiel and nothing else? I wouldn't and by giving up Lennon and our first pick this year, that's roughly what we'd be doing if some on here were in charge of recruiting. If Sheil declares he's coming back to Vic no matter what, we shouldn't have to give up 2 first round picks. I doubt they'd be looking for a Lennon type anyway. They've got Jed Lamb and a host of others who can't get a game as it is.

What if Dangerfield nominates us, would you do Lennon and Ellis for Shiel and Danger? They're two big upgrades.

 

[bananatigz]

What if Dangerfield nominates us, would you do Lennon and Ellis for Shiel and Danger? They're two big upgrades.

It's still Ellis and Lennon for Shiel, Danger doesn't come into it he's a FA
I'm not sure if i'd do it, 2 first rounders is a big price to pay, although the way Shiel is playing that could be the price we have to pay. If Lennon stays on the outer I can see it conceivably happening

 

[WATiger86]

As for shelving recycled players. Gotta disagree sorry. Free agency and good trades is the only way to immediately improve your list. Just look at the 3 players i mentioned.
Just because we have been mainly poor in our choices, it doesn't mean we should not address what we do wrong when recruiting, and then target our share of mature players. There has been so many mature types who have gone to other clubs over the last 5 yrs. If we had taken some of them we would be in much better shape than we are now.

I'm not saying ditch trades and Free agents - but I think in the most part we shouldn't be drafting (rookie or otherwise) blokes who have been delisted by other clubs

 

[bananatigz]

Batchelor + First Round > Shiel
Lennon > Yarran
S.Selwood FA

Going to have to give more than a first for Shiel, and our lack of quality depth makes it hard to find someone to give up. If they were interested in a Grimes/Batch I'd happily do that, don't think we need both with Castagna and Drummond pushing through there as well. Lennon seems to be on the outer and i've heard a few whispers the club aren't all too impressed with how he's going at this stage. If Yarran wanted a new home he'd cost a bit, and I'd be happy to give them a bit for him, think he'd be great on a flank alongside Houli. Scott Selwood gives us a bit of grunt in the middle, good big bodied player who I'm a fan of, he's been linked with us for a while so pretty realistic signing for us I think. They would be 3 pretty huge signings, you give up a bit for them but I think they would be worth it. Gives us a pretty strong side going into next season!

B: Grimes, Astbury, Chaplin
HB: Houli, Rance, Yarran
C: B.Ellis, S.Selwood, Grigg
HF: Deledio, Griffiths, Edwards
F: Martin, Reiwoldt, Vickery
R: Maric, Cotchin, Shiel
I: Vlastuin, Conca, McIntosh, C.Ellis

EMG: McDonough, Menadue, Hunt

 

[johnno77]

What if Dangerfield nominates us, would you do Lennon and Ellis for Shiel and Danger? They're two big upgrades.

They should be treated as two separate deals. Dangerfield will cost us nothing other than cap space. Getting those 2 to the club would certainly get Tiger fans hearts racing though!

 

[richoatthedisco]

B: Grimes, Astbury, Chaplin
HB: Houli, Rance, Yarran
C: B.Ellis, S.Selwood, Grigg
HF: Deledio, Griffiths, Edwards
F: Martin, Reiwoldt, Vickery
R: Maric, Cotchin, Shiel
I: Vlastuin, Conca, McIntosh, C.Ellis

EMG: McDonough, Menadue, Hunt

Fail: no Miles
Uber Fail: no McBean

 

[bananatigz]

Fail: no Miles
Uber Fail: no McBean

I have failed the Bean

Miles certainly an oversight, not sure who to take out!

 

[TJTIGER]

i sort of agree with you to a degree.
I understand why we went and got Houli Grigg,big Ivan, I even understand the reasoning behind Miller.The simple fact for me is there were other options to most of who we took and they were far better options. Even this yr just 3 or 4 sliding door moments and we have Garlett, Frawley Hallahan, yet we didnt even look.

As for shelving recycled players. Gotta disagree sorry. Free agency and good trades is the only way to immediately improve your list. Just look at the 3 players i mentioned.
Just because we have been mainly poor in our choices, it doesn't mean we should not address what we do wrong when recruiting, and then target our share of mature players. There has been so many mature types who have gone to other clubs over the last 5 yrs. If we had taken some of them we would be in much better shape than we are now.

Your sure we didn't look ?