Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

[gbatman]

That's just not correct gbatman

We've written up plenty over the course of the journey in respect to our top-end of town.
Everyone has started firing shots at them (Just listen to SEN yesterday)
They need to be exposed and held accountable for the direction they've put this club into and that won't happen until a full audit of the club is executed.

How have they contributed to the state of the list? They handled our last coach poorly, for sure. I don't really listen to SEN a lot. What has been the consensus coming from there?

 

[Broadside]

Carlton's board (MLG+Trigg) haven't even had a chance to have an influence at the club. We haven't had a coach/football department that they have even put together yet! They aren't the problem. Not to say the won't become a problem but what's in place is not their doing.

many of the directors have been there for many years, during the Ratten contract extension and his subsequent sacking. And the "powerbrokers" ie Pratts and Matthiesons have been pulling strings for years before that. This club is a cluster**** and the Board has laid the foundations for that with a string of terrible decisions. If the board isn't accountable, no one is. It's a cliche, but the fish does rot from the head. MLG is a Matthieson man is he not, the same Bruce Matthieson who wanted Ratten sacked and Malthouse appointed. Malthouse was the biggest disaster of the lot - of epic proportions. Amazing that in 2 1/2 years he can set the club back 5 years...fair effort that.

The coach isn't the problem at Carlton, Malthouse, Barker haven't been the problem. Malthouse was a disaster, first year we didn't trade at all so Mick could do his book launch. Then we he got busy, we lose all our forward line for a couple of magic beans (Daisy Thomas and Liam Jones) The board isn't the problem, they have been there all of five seconds. wrong, refer above Our player development is only a very tiny barely significant spec of the problem player development is a huge problem, how a guy like Casboult sat on our list for years with an obvious kicking defect is exhibit A Carlton that people bring up to skip around the issue that our player sourcing has been rubbish yes and who is responsible for that - the Board, they set up the structures and the people. Our game plan is most certainly not the problem, regardless of whatever game play or style we go with we're boned.

Carlton's problem is that we have the worst list in the competition and one of the worst lists the Carlton Football Club has ever seen. yes It doesn't take a genius to see how this happened and under whose watch it happened. Now that's irrelevant. It's all about fixing the problem, doing it the right way with the right types of players with modern tried and true methods unrestricted by emotional attachment and the fear of failure.

The only good thing about Carlton's list and it's the big difference from the last time we hit rock bottom, is that we have a heap of reasonable players in their prime who are tradable I don't think we have a heap, a handful at absolute best and we don't have draft penalties and we might have some father son picks and we have a small group of decent young players. We actually have the opportunity to rebuild properly unlike last time. we have had many opportunities to rebuild properly in the past decade, we shirked every time

When you have the worst list going around it's easy to identify everything (board, coach, game plan/style) as being a problem.

5 years. We have 5 years to get 2 top tall forwards, two top tall defenders, 3 top level onballers (minimum) and a couple of really good small/medium forwards and that's just a start. Only way to do it is if we trade top line players now while they have trade value. It's not possibly with conservative trading and taking the standard draft picks. Father Son selections will help providing they are good enough and we don't have to pay overs.

 

[HBF]

My favourite non-Carlton player by a street.

Which street?

 

[thylacine60]

Lonely Street

 

[Broadside]

current Carlton board (from CFC website)

Adrian Gleeson is the "football person" coming up on 10 years

Mark Logiudice - on board since Feb 2010
Jeanne Pratt - 2011
Marcus Clarke - 2007
Zac Fried - ?
Ahmed Fahour - ?
Adrian Gleeson - 2006
Raphael Geminder -
Greg Lee - ?
Luke Sayers - ?
Craig Mathieson - 2012

 

[thylacine60]

Zac fried what?

 

[Big Sim]

I definitely did NOT call him a poorly skilled player. BUT, he has definitely made a career out of being fitter and faster than most others. Any time he has been slowed down at all, he has been mostly average.

I do find it funny that you comment on him jumping on someones shoulders as his highlight, but refuse to believe his athleticism was a big part of it. Thats a bit Lolz

So jumping a couple of metres onto someone's shoulders to catch a spinning oval ball that has been travelling in a high arc through the elements for 40-50 metres does not involve enormous skill?

Tough crowd.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Lol Malthouse set the club back 5 years, what rot, he actually did the club a favour of cleaning out list cloggers like Laidler and Robinson and Bootsma and set the foundations for the club to finally realize we were going nowhere and start the painful process of rebuilding. Sure Mick made a few mistakes, but his player management ideas were sound.

In a few years time, people will look back on the Malthouse era as the recession we had to had,.

 

[Broadside]

Lol Malthouse set the club back 5 years, what rot, he actually did the club a favour of cleaning out list cloggers like Laidler and Robinson and Bootsma and set the foundations for the club to finally realize we were going nowhere and start the painful process of rebuilding. Sure Mick made a few mistakes, but his player management ideas were sound.

In a few years time, people will look back on the Malthouse era as the recession we had to had,.

I would take a "list clogger" like Laidler or Robinson over Liam Jones every day of the week. Jones may try his best but if he failed to make an impact in 5 years in a struggling team what made us think he had the tools to be a very good player (with a 3 year contract to boot). Malthouse was a disaster by every conceivable measure other than his bank balance.

Do you think Nick Graham would have hung around next year the way Malthouse treated him?

We can go round in circles here, but tell me going forward would you want Liam Jones or the pick the Bulldogs used (Caleb Daniel)? Dale Thomas or, assuming Betts even left, a compensation pick? No amount of time will diminish the monument to futility that was the Mick Malthouse appointment. Collingwood knew he was cooked and we offered him a million dollars a year. That is the Board's responsibility.

We needed to have a recession, Mick turned it into a Depression.

 

[PuffDragon89]

Which street?

Heathcote's main street....all 164km of it

 

[Big Sim]

Lol Malthouse set the club back 5 years, what rot, he actually did the club a favour of cleaning out list cloggers like Laidler and Robinson and Bootsma and set the foundations for the club to finally realize we were going nowhere and start the painful process of rebuilding. Sure Mick made a few mistakes, but his player management ideas were sound.

In a few years time, people will look back on the Malthouse era as the recession we had to had,.

With respect mate, Laidler and Robinson were far from "list cloggers'...that they left Carlton and went on to be automatic best 22 at other clubs without Carlton getting a brass razoo in return is another blot on Mick's record here if you ask me.

 

[Cipher]

That's not Mick's fault, we've been showing our hand before trade week even starts for years now.

Not even negotiating on close to a top 10 pick request for Brock, letting it leak that players will be let go if not traded, how we got anything of note for Fev I'll never know. Can't think of any club that has been anywhere near as transparent as us with their list management decisions. Continously to our detriment, with no signs of improving.

 

[rp84]

So jumping a couple of metres onto someone's shoulders to catch a spinning oval ball that has been travelling in a high arc through the elements for 40-50 metres does not involve enormous skill?

Tough crowd.

Reading skillz

 

[Blue__Balls]

So jumping a couple of metres onto someone's shoulders to catch a spinning oval ball that has been travelling in a high arc through the elements for 40-50 metres does not involve enormous skill?

Tough crowd.

I think the point being made is that the tricks that 1AW based his game on require him to be in top physical condition.

Tom Hawkins could play with a slightly bung knee and still monster a few marks in the goal-square. Andy Walker, without his big jump and turn of pace, is going to struggle to have anywhere near enough impact to justify giving him games ahead of Boekhorst or one of the Irish lads I the same position.

 

[Spitfire1801]

I think the point being made is that the tricks that 1AW based his game on require him to be in top physical condition.

Tom Hawkins could play with a slightly bung knee and still monster a few marks in the goal-square. Andy Walker, without his big jump and turn of pace, is going to struggle to have anywhere near enough impact to justify giving him games ahead of Boekhorst or one of the Irish lads I the same position.

I understand what your saying and to an extent agree, however, a Carlton with a 75% Walker is still better than a Carlton with a 200% Jones.

 

[Magruder]

So jumping a couple of metres onto someone's shoulders to catch a spinning oval ball that has been travelling in a high arc through the elements for 40-50 metres does not involve enormous skill?

Tough crowd.

question: can he still do it?

 

[Magruder]

I understand what your saying and to an extent agree, however, a Carlton with a 75% Walker is still better than a Carlton with a 200% Jones.

would you really inflict two Liam Jones on anyone?

 

[HARKER]

How have they contributed to the state of the list? They handled our last coach poorly, for sure. I don't really listen to SEN a lot. What has been the consensus coming from there?

Don't worry about SEN alone, or for any other media people because once they get on roll, they'll just rinse and repeat.
In this case that may not be such a bad thing because we can't keep masking over that we're just not a well run organisation.
We demand accountability across other platforms but not so much the for people with the real whip hand.

I don't wish to go into any forecasting but we'd best get on our bike quickly and do this properly, as the downside to having a poor team and a business that's bleeding money, whilst not capable of attracting new members, will hurt us for much longer than having lost a few draft selections early in the '00's

 

[Big Sim]

question: can he still do it?

If his knee is bone on bone as some say, I doubt it.

Voss and Cooney both played on with knees like this but are different players.

I guess we have to wait and see if he can play on.

 

[Big Sim]

I think the point being made is that the tricks that 1AW based his game on require him to be in top physical condition.

Tom Hawkins could play with a slightly bung knee and still monster a few marks in the goal-square. Andy Walker, without his big jump and turn of pace, is going to struggle to have anywhere near enough impact to justify giving him games ahead of Boekhorst or one of the Irish lads I the same position.

Yes I can see that. He would have to reinvent himself, but that is a big ask at his age.

I was responding to a poster who did not, in my opinion, give credit where credit was due regarding his excellent skill set. He has had elite seasons as both a forward and a defender and has done some absolutely freakish things along the way.

 

[ODNBlue]

If he is bone on bone then I hope he chooses to retire. There's nothing more he can do for us and a lot of damage he could do to himself...

 

[ferrisb]

current Carlton board (from CFC website)

Adrian Gleeson is the "football person" coming up on 10 years

Mark Logiudice - on board since Feb 2010
Jeanne Pratt - 2011
Marcus Clarke - 2007
Zac Fried - ?
Ahmed Fahour - ?
Adrian Gleeson - 2006
Raphael Geminder -
Greg Lee - ?
Luke Sayers - ?
Craig Mathieson - 2012

As much as I am over the board talk, I really liked your post earlier Broady.

Also as for this one, I can't be bothered filling in all the ? but wanted to add the following:

Jeanne Pratt - on board since 2011, but basically an extension of Richard Pratt who came on board as El Presidente in 2007.
Raph Geminder - on board since 2009, but basically an extension of Richard Pratt who came on board as El Presidente in 2007.
Craig Mathieson - on board since 2012, but basically an extension of uncle Bruce who has been powerbroking at least as far back as 2002

* it's possibly unfair to assume that Geminder/Mathieson are no more than puppets and/or branch-stackers, but I also can't see them going against (m/p)atriachs in philosophy or alignment.

 

[Wickzki]

Zac fried what?

Our team, apparently.

 

[passmark]

Our team, apparently.

......and ate them with some fava beans and a nice chianti

 

[Sin City]

Carlton's board (MLG+Trigg) haven't even had a chance to have an influence at the club. We haven't had a coach/football department that they have even put together yet! They aren't the problem. Not to say the won't become a problem but what's in place is not their doing.

The coach isn't the problem at Carlton, Malthouse, Barker haven't been the problem. The board isn't the problem, they have been there all of five seconds. Our player development is only a very tiny barely significant spec of the problem at Carlton that people bring up to skip around the issue that our player sourcing has been rubbish. Our game plan is most certainly not the problem, regardless of whatever game play or style we go with we're boned.

Carlton's problem is that we have the worst list in the competition and one of the worst lists the Carlton Football Club has ever seen. It doesn't take a genius to see how this happened and under whose watch it happened. Now that's irrelevant. It's all about fixing the problem, doing it the right way with the right types of players with modern tried and true methods unrestricted by emotional attachment and the fear of failure.

The only good thing about Carlton's list and it's the big difference from the last time we hit rock bottom, is that we have a heap of reasonable players in their prime who are tradable and we don't have draft penalties and we might have some father son picks and we have a small group of decent young players. We actually have the opportunity to rebuild properly unlike last time.

When you have the worst list going around it's easy to identify everything (board, coach, game plan/style) as being a problem.

5 years. We have 5 years to get 2 top tall forwards, two top tall defenders, 3 top level onballers (minimum) and a couple of really good small/medium forwards and that's just a start. Only way to do it is if we trade top line players now while they have trade value. It's not possibly with conservative trading and taking the standard draft picks. Father Son selections will help providing they are good enough and we don't have to pay overs.

Just so far off the mark in so many ways. Just no idea about the state of the club or what's happening there.