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gbatman

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Mar 26, 2008
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Malthouse wasn't a disaster, we were, he tried to fix it, things were getting worse before they were getting better and here we are. You can't throw a bloke on a sinking ship and blame him for it sinking. We were f***ed well before we signed up Malthouse, it began when Ratten was there, there was no stopping it, it's why Ratten was sacked after 2012.

You know what was wrong with Malthouse? He wasn't afraid of doing things properly and sending his team to the bottom for a bit to rebuild it. He's done it before with Collingwood. He arrived, the list had no good young players, the team/list was crap and it was going nowhere but down. Blind freddy could see that. We were hanging on, just. The problem is that Malthouse wanted to do something that's not in the Carlton way. We have had no choice to bottom out. It was that or try and hang on to everyone and try and poach free agents and hang onto our mediocre success of being a bottom 4 finals team and then bottom out which was inevitable or to get it out of the way early and start the rebuild before we were forced to.

Player development is a problem but it's not why we are no good. Teams like Sydney and Hawthorn get praised for player development. We use Casboult as an example, thing is teams like Sydney and Hawthorn wouldn't have him. We've picked a lot of players who can't be developed.

Yeah we haven't had an opportunity to rebuild as strongly as this, at the end of 2002 we didn't have much. We have a few that could be traded and a smart team who can recruit could upgrade upon.

Don't worry about SEN alone, or for any other media people because once they get on roll, they'll just rinse and repeat.
In this case that may not be such a bad thing because we can't keep masking over that we're just not a well run organisation.
We demand accountability across other platforms but not so much the for people with the real whip hand.

I don't wish to go into any forecasting but we'd best get on our bike quickly and do this properly, as the downside to having a poor team and a business that's bleeding money, whilst not capable of attracting new members, will hurt us for much longer than having lost a few draft selections early in the '00's

Membership issues and bleeding money stem back to our lack of on field success over the last 15 years. But there are other aspects as well. Even equally mediocre clubs like Essendon seem to attract members so why can't we? Granted they have won a flag more recently but they are miles ahead. I think we're only just now starting to connect with fans. Not being privy to how we operate I can't comment on whether we're wasting money or poorly investing or what's going wrong operations wise. If we're not earning then you'd suggest trips over seas and things like that are unnecessary. I know one of the biggest problems has been that big wavy white elephant at Princes park.

People seem to have this hate up that we are run and influenced by too many power brokers. It's not a great thing. It's a problem that we need them because lets face it without them we'd likely be gone. I'm sure it would not have been an issue had we actually done the last rebuild right and had some success and put a flag in the trophy cabinet. In fact we'd probably be praising it instead of blaming it. Perhaps these people are the ones demanding the quick success that keeps crippling us and if that's the case then there's a problem here.

End of the day if you have the best players in the league... All of a sudden your coach is the best in the league, your development is the best in the league, your board is the best in the league and so forth.

We can't help ourselves, we love a good scape goat at Carlton. It was Ratten, then it was really mick, soon it will be barker, it's also the boars. It all comes back to how good your list is. Everything does and that comes back to list management and recruiting and if that's no good then it comes to those who put or kept those in charge in place and in place for too long.
 

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Broadside

Premiership Player
Jul 15, 2007
3,051
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We have had no choice to bottom out.

yes I agree but Mick told the board and the members it was 11.30 on the premiership clock and did nothing in the first trade period. Sure his hands were tied to SOME extent with list clogger contracts, but it was still a year lost.


It's a problem that we need them because lets face it without them we'd likely be gone.
I don't accept that. Frankly I'd rather they walked away now, we set the reset button, did a tin rattling campaign and returned the club to the members. For all our billionaire benefactors, why are we still heavily in debt? answer is, they like it that way so we won't turf them out. With all due respect to Jeanne Pratt, why is she a director? what skill set does she bring to our football club? she is well connected in the arts but this football club should be more than a pastime.
 

Doro

Collective Narcissism Support Group
Sep 22, 2011
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Its the timing of this board fury that I don't really get. We drift along aimlessly post Pratt, lurching from one bad decision to the next, a case study in inactivity - and then we finally start making the hard calls for sustainable success(which outsiders have noticed). Then we decide the board has to go? Where was this when the fantasy land decision making was occurring?
 

Broadside

Premiership Player
Jul 15, 2007
3,051
10,278
Victoria
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Its the timing of this board fury that I don't really get. We drift along aimlessly post Pratt, lurching from one bad decision to the next, a case study in inactivity - and then we finally start making the hard calls for sustainable success(which outsiders have noticed). Then we decide the board has to go? Where was this when the fantasy land decision making was occurring?

people are fed up because many of the people on the current board had their fingerprints all over the Malthouse appointment. How many chances before they totally destroy the club?
 

passmark

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 26, 2012
21,025
44,565
AFL Club
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Its the timing of this board fury that I don't really get. We drift along aimlessly post Pratt, lurching from one bad decision to the next, a case study in inactivity - and then we finally start making the hard calls for sustainable success(which outsiders have noticed). Then we decide the board has to go? Where was this when the fantasy land decision making was occurring?

Huh?

Really?
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
8,383
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Malthouse wasn't a disaster, we were, he tried to fix it, things were getting worse before they were getting better and here we are. You can't throw a bloke on a sinking ship and blame him for it sinking. We were f***ed well before we signed up Malthouse, it began when Ratten was there, there was no stopping it, it's why Ratten was sacked after 2012.

You know what was wrong with Malthouse? He wasn't afraid of doing things properly and sending his team to the bottom for a bit to rebuild it. He's done it before with Collingwood. He arrived, the list had no good young players, the team/list was crap and it was going nowhere but down. Blind freddy could see that. We were hanging on, just. The problem is that Malthouse wanted to do something that's not in the Carlton way. We have had no choice to bottom out. It was that or try and hang on to everyone and try and poach free agents and hang onto our mediocre success of being a bottom 4 finals team and then bottom out which was inevitable or to get it out of the way early and start the rebuild before we were forced to.
Malthouse was useless mate, face it. He turfed serviceable players, had an outdated game plan that made our list look much worse than what it was. "Wasn't afraid to send the team to the bottom to re-build", is that why he lured his injury prone best mate with stuffed ankles across on 700k? Spare me!

Ratten had a young list playing regular finals. He had issues, so did the team and a whole lot of places - like every young team progression doesn't happen in a straight line. All the club had to do was be patient instead of pull triggers left right and center.

"Blind Freddy could see that" - there are posts of you, yourself getting excited about our list in 2011. Mick thought our list was fine in 2013, which is why he chose to make no trades and go on a ******* book tour.
 

Doro

Collective Narcissism Support Group
Sep 22, 2011
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Malthouse was useless mate, face it. He turfed serviceable players, had an outdated game plan that made our list look much worse than what it was. "Wasn't afraid to send the team to the bottom to re-build", is that why he lured his injury prone best mate with stuffed ankles across on 700k? Spare me!

Ratten had a young list playing regular finals. He had issues, so did the team and a whole lot of places - like every young team progression doesn't happen in a straight line. All the club had to do was be patient instead of pull triggers left right and center.

"Blind Freddy could see that" - there are posts of you, yourself getting excited about our list in 2011. Mick thought our list was fine in 2013, which is why he chose to make no trades and go on a ******* book tour.

The pressure and noise for rattens head was just as bad in 2012 as it was for MM this year, which might be fresher in the memory. Plenty made comment that it had to happen.
 

gbatman

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Mar 26, 2008
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yes I agree but Mick told the board and the members it was 11.30 on the premiership clock and did nothing in the first trade period. Sure his hands were tied to SOME extent with list clogger contracts, but it was still a year lost.



I don't accept that. Frankly I'd rather they walked away now, we set the reset button, did a tin rattling campaign and returned the club to the members. For all our billionaire benefactors, why are we still heavily in debt? answer is, they like it that way so we won't turf them out. With all due respect to Jeanne Pratt, why is she a director? what skill set does she bring to our football club? she is well connected in the arts but this football club should be more than a pastime.

I don't disagree with that, but someone is always in charge, members don't make decisions and run football clubs.

At the moment we have a side that no one wants to watch which is our biggest problem. Our older members have been spoilt and can't bare watching us. Reminding us of 1995 sure does us no favors at the moment. Our younger members aren't that into us because all they've known is us being rubbish and it hasn't been pleasant. At the moment no one is going to our games or signing up as members. Its going to hurt and when our sponsors start feeling the decline in exposure it's going to hurt more. This is where this quick fix from the board stems IMO. I haven't had an opportunity to have a good look at our books but I think we may find it difficult without AFL assistance to start from scratch.

Carlton need to start selling hope but not at the expense our development. Judd sold hope but I feel that affected us long term. Cripps and young talent like that will sell hope and that will sell memberships. We're struggling to sell hope which I think the Essendon's of the world do well, even if it is false. Having a group of talented young players who can win a few games and play well will be what regenerates Carlton as a successful side on and off the field. Something to get excited about and to quell the negative press that's hammering us.
 

1981

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 21, 2008
7,814
8,777
Melbourne
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Malthouse wasn't a disaster, we were, he tried to fix it, things were getting worse before they were getting better and here we are. You can't throw a bloke on a sinking ship and blame him for it sinking. We were f***ed well before we signed up Malthouse, it began when Ratten was there, there was no stopping it, it's why Ratten was sacked after 2012.

You know what was wrong with Malthouse? He wasn't afraid of doing things properly and sending his team to the bottom for a bit to rebuild it. He's done it before with Collingwood. He arrived, the list had no good young players, the team/list was crap and it was going nowhere but down. Blind freddy could see that. We were hanging on, just. The problem is that Malthouse wanted to do something that's not in the Carlton way. We have had no choice to bottom out. It was that or try and hang on to everyone and try and poach free agents and hang onto our mediocre success of being a bottom 4 finals team and then bottom out which was inevitable or to get it out of the way early and start the rebuild before we were forced to.

Player development is a problem but it's not why we are no good. Teams like Sydney and Hawthorn get praised for player development. We use Casboult as an example, thing is teams like Sydney and Hawthorn wouldn't have him. We've picked a lot of players who can't be developed.

Yeah we haven't had an opportunity to rebuild as strongly as this, at the end of 2002 we didn't have much. We have a few that could be traded and a smart team who can recruit could upgrade upon.



Membership issues and bleeding money stem back to our lack of on field success over the last 15 years. But there are other aspects as well. Even equally mediocre clubs like Essendon seem to attract members so why can't we? Granted they have won a flag more recently but they are miles ahead. I think we're only just now starting to connect with fans. Not being privy to how we operate I can't comment on whether we're wasting money or poorly investing or what's going wrong operations wise. If we're not earning then you'd suggest trips over seas and things like that are unnecessary. I know one of the biggest problems has been that big wavy white elephant at Princes park.

People seem to have this hate up that we are run and influenced by too many power brokers. It's not a great thing. It's a problem that we need them because lets face it without them we'd likely be gone. I'm sure it would not have been an issue had we actually done the last rebuild right and had some success and put a flag in the trophy cabinet. In fact we'd probably be praising it instead of blaming it. Perhaps these people are the ones demanding the quick success that keeps crippling us and if that's the case then there's a problem here.

End of the day if you have the best players in the league... All of a sudden your coach is the best in the league, your development is the best in the league, your board is the best in the league and so forth.

We can't help ourselves, we love a good scape goat at Carlton. It was Ratten, then it was really mick, soon it will be barker, it's also the boars. It all comes back to how good your list is. Everything does and that comes back to list management and recruiting and if that's no good then it comes to those who put or kept those in charge in place and in place for too long.

Hang on, you're saying Mick is blameless?

He got rid of good players, and under his watch the performances continued to decline - this despite him saying the list could win a flag if all things went right. I'm sorry but if that's not the ultimate fail as a coach then I don't know what is.

You say he knew we needed to bottom out. Again I remind you he is on record saying how good the list is.

And, if he was bottoming out then why was he so conservative with the use of young players? It's only now Barker has taken over we are blooding kids in earnest. I'd hazard a guess Mick's refusal to blood kids and instead try and save his reputation by playing seasoned players was one of the reasons the club gave him the arse.

Mick ran this club and list into the ground. He got rid of good players, brought in Thomas whose been a disaster, implemented an antiquated game plan, and basically ruined us further.

Sorry but I think you are confused, VERY confused.
 

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A lot of sack the board, they caused all of this talk going on.

I haven't seen anybody put forward a viable and realistic alternative. You do realise these guys have to be voted back in by the members.

Problem is a lack of capable candidates. The only guy who has threatened to challenge is Tom Elliot and we are then just dipping back into the same well.

We can't just have any joe blow/opinionated BigFooty poster nominating for the board because his heart is in the right place. You have to have the right skillset to value add to the club and potentially do some fundraising.

Almost every criticism of our board is in hindsight so what makes us think we can bring in a bunch of fresh football people who will somehow make the right decisions in running a multi million dollar venture?

Just wish detractors would have a plan and the courage to step up.

The most I will say is that we have taken a lot of missteps over the years and an independent review of the club is prudent. I'm clueless other than that.
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
16,013
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Malthouse was useless mate, face it. He turfed serviceable players, had an outdated game plan that made our list look much worse than what it was. "Wasn't afraid to send the team to the bottom to re-build", is that why he lured his injury prone best mate with stuffed ankles across on 700k? Spare me!

Ratten had a young list playing regular finals. He had issues, so did the team and a whole lot of places - like every young team progression doesn't happen in a straight line. All the club had to do was be patient instead of pull triggers left right and center.

"Blind Freddy could see that" - there are posts of you, yourself getting excited about our list in 2011. Mick thought our list was fine in 2013, which is why he chose to make no trades and go on a ******* book tour.

We lost old players, we were going nowhere. Who really cares if we lost Betts or Waite because we were on the decline and they weren't going to be there when we're back up. They wanted to go. Game plan is irrelevant when you don't have the players. Excuse me for not following the sheep but we're finally playing the game plan everyone has wanted us to play under Johnny Barker and we just had the biggest loss of all time. I kept telling people that we were actually overachieving under Malthouse even though we were no good and that a lot of our losses could have been easily double under the more attacking game plan everyone wanted. Well last year we nearly beat Hawthorn, there goes that logic. Losing players for nothing hurts, that's free agency. Getting Thomas cost us nothing. Also free agency. It's irrelevant.

Ratten's list wasnt really young nor was it ever much good. Judd carried it to ridiculous heights but our lack of talented depth always came undone against decent sides. RAttens problem was a lack of youth. The most talented young player coming through in 2012 was Lucas and he was no good. The constant trickle of good young players, and that's all it ever was was a trickle ended in 2009 for a team that was never much good, this was always going to end badly. We had an opportunity to be good but 2009-2013 killed us. Other teams around us getting better didn't help but look where we are.
 
A lot of sack the board, they caused all of this talk going on.

I haven't seen anybody put forward a viable and realistic alternative. You do realise these guys have to be voted back in by the members.
Problem is a lack of capable candidates. The only guy who has threatened to challenge is Tom Elliot and we are then just dipping back into the same well.

We can't just have any joe blow/opinionated BigFooty poster nominating for the board because his heart is in the right place. You have to have the right skillset to value add to the club and potentially do some fundraising.

Almost every criticism of our board is in hindsight so what makes us think we can bring in a bunch of fresh football people who will somehow make the right decisions in running a multi million dollar venture?

Just wish detractors would have a plan and the courage to step up.

The most I will say is that we have taken a lot of missteps over the years and an independent review of the club is prudent. I'm clueless other than that.

That's a fair point of course but just at this stage, I'd back "The Devil I don't now"

I don't care to sack the board but I think we'd all like a little more accountability and transparency.
A complete club audit executed by an external source, but I don't think we'd promote such an undertaking. We probably don't have enough money, anyway.

The way I'm seeing things is that it will get worse before it gets better but even that's better than just plugging holes.
Make no mistake.....this lot and their egos have got us to where we are. There's no other excuse for what is (was once) considered a powerful club.
 
That's a fair point of course but just at this stage, I'd back "The Devil I don't now"

I don't care to sack the board but I think we'd all like a little more accountability and transparency.
A complete club audit executed by an external source, but I don't think we'd promote such an undertaking. We probably don't have enough money, anyway.

The way I'm seeing things is that it will get worse before it gets better but even that's better than just plugging holes.
Make no mistake.....this lot and their egos have got us to where we are. There's no other excuse for what is (was once) considered a powerful club.

Make no mistake. This lost weren't even there when we started going downhill.

You're throwing all your eggs in the one basket Harks.

As for backing the devil you don't know .... I don't even ...

Let's say someone like you wanted on the board Harks, what would you do to turn us around? Bear in mind that you have to pay for your ideas.
 
Make no mistake. This lost weren't even there when we started going downhill.
You're throwing all your eggs in the one basket Harks.
As for backing the devil you don't know .... I don't even ...
Let's say someone like you wanted on the board Harks, what would you do to turn us around? Bear in mind that you have to pay for your ideas.

Which other basket is there ODN? It's the AFL's fault?
Let's keep blaming the employees and not the employers? Really?

Why wouldn't we want to have 'another shot at things?'
Which part of this business is doing things well? Which part?................Why's that?

Someone try selling this lot and their achievements to any of the other 17 clubs..........................Good luck :)
 
Theres a better chance of a 106 year old Harold Holt turning up on the shores of Portsea alive and well than there is of us removing the current board.

............and why is that?

Why wouldn't underachievers want to set out to 'put things right?'
Why will all the periphery change, but the people that got us to where we are remain?

Is the answer really that difficult?
 
Dec 18, 2005
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The answer is simple, because nobody wants to take the responsibility of presenting an alternative viable option.

People are more than happy to sit back and throw stones at the regime, yet they are unapposed?

"If you are not part of the solution, you are a part of the problem"

I'm not saying the current regime are doing a good or bad job FWIW.
 
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