Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

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I thought this was the RUMOUR DISCUSSION thread??? Not general chit chat??

First world problems. Like the other occasions, it will be moved to a more appropriate thread in due course.

However, time and time again I have explained we have two rumour threads because chit chat always broke out when we had one and we are not going to go completely OCD and discourage all interaction unless it happens in a certain thread.
 
I must be aligned with our leaders then..................just keeping things consistent.

Let's talk at the end of the year........maybe we can formulate some of our boards virtues by then.

Yes, maybe you can spell out some alternatives, some way to replace the revenue and explain why nobody that actually gets paid to do a job at the club shares any blame in the club's position yet the volunteer board, all of who came AFTER our problems first started need to take 100% of the blame.
 

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Yes, maybe you can spell out some alternatives, some way to replace the revenue and explain why nobody that actually gets paid to do a job at the club shares any blame in the club's position yet the volunteer board, all of who came AFTER our problems first started need to take 100% of the blame.

Not my skill sets. You'd think that 12 highly-skilled individuals could come up with some plans that work..................you'd think.

To date our hits amount to zero. Not good is it?
 

P_Crippy

Club Legend
Jun 22, 2015
2,082
3,950
AFL Club
Carlton
All seems hopeless.
Board is s**t, but it seems too difficult to run against for anyone.
Also appears SOS will be a bad choice before he has even brought anyone to the club.
Highly paid players not feeling like they should give their all because the organisation they work for are thinking of re-structuring with the hope for improvement in the future.
At least we still all vote with our money or put our feet where our mouths are.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
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Adelaide
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Without a clear understanding of how much money and where it comes from and how it is connected to each member of the Board - no one can say why the incumbents are incumbent.

It is telling that Visy Park is no longer Visy and is now Icon or something - wouldn't be surprised to see Jeannie off the Board soon. No one knows the exact details of what Matheson contributes - and his deal with Carlton re Pokies- all confidential..so how much has he and does he contribute? We Do know that Edelstein was able to get a seat behind Malthouse- for how much ?

The Club is clearly desperate for dollars... and millions thrown its way by connected sponsorship deals or direct donation - are millions. Who replaces that resource if the people responsible for bringing it to the Club are ousted...and why should they - what strings would be attached?

Carlton needs a fiscal strategy that removes the need to have so called benefactors...who is going to deliver that piece of magic?

Start with answering the money question - before getting ahead of yourselves talking about sacking a Board and replacing it with nuff nuffs.

The Visy Park sponsorship was a 3 year deal, at the time believed to be worth $5 million. We kmow for certain from the Annual Reports that the Pratts (Richard and Jeannie) gave the following

  • 2007 - $1,720,947 ($1,330,000 shown as a donation, and $390,947 shown as Corporate Sales)
  • 2008 - $1,538,068 (shown as Coprorate Sales)
  • 2009 - nil
  • 2010 - nil
  • 2011 - $1,535,934 (shown as sponsorship, however it also shows a $402,307 charge to the club for goods)
  • 2012 - $1,739,776 (shown as sponsorship, however it also shows a $434,440 charge to the club for goods)
  • 2013 - $1,141,867 (shown as sponsorship, however it also shows a $512,447 charge to the club for goods)
  • 2014 - $1,040,628 (shown as sponsorship, however it also shows a $25,062 charge to the club for goods)
 

Nori

Club Legend
Nov 16, 2014
1,606
3,824
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I must be aligned with our leaders then..................just keeping things consistent.

Let's talk at the end of the year........maybe we can formulate some of our boards virtues by then.

You want a few virtues of the current board?
1. They sacked Malthouse. Had to be done because he was a disaster.
2. They sacked Swan. Finally Carlton can be more than just a halfway house for failed Magpies.
3. They let Rogers go. He and Hughes had under performed for years.
4. They hired SOS. Finally there is someone to think strategically about list management.
5. They implemented a committee to improve board stability and expertise (like Hawthorn and other clubs)
6. They implemented a selection committee to find a new coach

If you think this is doing nothing you are just plain wrong. If you don't agree with the changes ... Well you can please some of the people some of the time.
 

The Flying Doormat

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 5, 2008
7,191
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That's just not correct gbatman

We've written up plenty over the course of the journey in respect to our top-end of town.
Everyone has started firing shots at them (Just listen to SEN yesterday)
They need to be exposed and held accountable for the direction they've put this club into and that won't happen until a full audit of the club is executed.


Can you enlighten me as to what this actually means? :confused:
 
Not my skill sets. You'd think that 12 highly-skilled individuals could come up with some plans that work..................you'd think.

To date our hits amount to zero. Not good is it?

Do they?

Are we paying down debt? Are we putting more money in the football department? Do we have better facilities? Do we have a dedicated list manager? Do we have proper coach recruitment process for the first time ever? Are the club communicating more than ever before?

We're not closing the doors. I assume something is working. It's just that the stuff that is not working is what gets talked about. Even then there are hopes when we first try something and criticism in hindsight if it doesn't come off.
 
Can you enlighten me as to what this actually means? :confused:
The auditors is coming.........

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chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
8,383
18,230
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We lost old players, we were going nowhere. Who really cares if we lost Betts or Waite because we were on the decline and they weren't going to be there when we're back up. They wanted to go. Game plan is irrelevant when you don't have the players. Excuse me for not following the sheep but we're finally playing the game plan everyone has wanted us to play under Johnny Barker and we just had the biggest loss of all time. I kept telling people that we were actually overachieving under Malthouse even though we were no good and that a lot of our losses could have been easily double under the more attacking game plan everyone wanted. Well last year we nearly beat Hawthorn, there goes that logic. Losing players for nothing hurts, that's free agency. Getting Thomas cost us nothing. Also free agency. It's irrelevant.

Ratten's list wasnt really young nor was it ever much good. Judd carried it to ridiculous heights but our lack of talented depth always came undone against decent sides. RAttens problem was a lack of youth. The most talented young player coming through in 2012 was Lucas and he was no good. The constant trickle of good young players, and that's all it ever was was a trickle ended in 2009 for a team that was never much good, this was always going to end badly. We had an opportunity to be good but 2009-2013 killed us. Other teams around us getting better didn't help but look where we are.
We weren't going nowhere. We were on the way up with a young side, had a down year due to injuries and completely ****ed everything up by signing Mick who made our list look much worse than what it was.

You're taking the piss aren't you? Overachieving under Mick? You actually believe the result Friday night would have been better with MM at the helm? You think we would have beaten Port and GC, and pushed Adelaide with Mick still as our head coach. Jeepers. As soon as Mick left we looked better than we did in 3 years. Look at Marc Murphys form, hasn't played like this since 2012. I'm not sure if you watched our first 8 weeks, but it was some of the worst displays of football from any team I've ever seen, EVER. Reminded me of Melbourne under Neeld - perhaps worse. We ran out against the reigning back to back premiers who are in stunning form with our most injury depleted, inexperienced side in years - the overreaction to this loss is astounding me.

Thomas cost us nothing? Bullshit, he costs us a big chunk of our salary cap, we cancelled our Betts compo because of him, and he's taking up the spot on the list which should be for a kid.
 
Aug 20, 2011
1,194
1,632
Keilor
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Carlton
A lot of sack the board, they caused all of this talk going on.

I haven't seen anybody put forward a viable and realistic alternative. You do realise these guys have to be voted back in by the members.

Problem is a lack of capable candidates. The only guy who has threatened to challenge is Tom Elliot and we are then just dipping back into the same well.

We can't just have any joe blow/opinionated BigFooty poster nominating for the board because his heart is in the right place. You have to have the right skillset to value add to the club and potentially do some fundraising.

Almost every criticism of our board is in hindsight so what makes us think we can bring in a bunch of fresh football people who will somehow make the right decisions in running a multi million dollar venture?

Just wish detractors would have a plan and the courage to step up.

The most I will say is that we have taken a lot of missteps over the years and an independent review of the club is prudent. I'm clueless other than that.

This point is very valid, nothing is to be achieved by burning people with out the full picture. Over complicating of facts, and hindsight wont help either. The club is already a graveyard for coaches, no point making it a graveyard for players, staff and board members also.

All I can say is that from a distance it looks as though there is not enough structure through out the club, there seems to be many instances where responsibilities cross over. This not only causes friction but means that staff can't be measured, how can anything be managed if it can't be measured? This also gives credence to stories of individuals not being able or should I say allowed to perform their jobs properly.

Boundaries, procedures, measurement and management of staff, players and the board will go along way to fixing some of the problems at Carlton. I was interested to read SOS presented some KPI's for the playing list and where our list rates on those KPI's, in fact I was surprised to read this, as I can't believe the club hadn't implemented this a decade ago, it sounds to me like a bunch of people sat around a table and guessed what players the side needed to perform. If this is the case they should just read bigfooty and cut list management from the budget, it seems totally inept to me.

I hope that the new regime is working through this before making any further investments in personnel as they will be set up to fail. At some point the club needs to stop having a scapegoat and start to get to the root of problems internally.

I have no doubt some people have their sources of information, but the fact is with out a total view of the problems within the club (not one sided or clouded) there is no way any one can provide an actual solution.
 

lachie charm

Cancelled
Feb 8, 2015
1,283
2,198
AFL Club
Carlton
You want a few virtues of the current board?
1. They sacked Malthouse. Had to be done because he was a disaster.
2. They sacked Swan. Finally Carlton can be more than just a halfway house for failed Magpies.
3. They let Rogers go. He and Hughes had under performed for years.
4. They hired SOS. Finally there is someone to think strategically about list management.
5. They implemented a committee to improve board stability and expertise (like Hawthorn and other clubs)
6. They implemented a selection committee to find a new coach

If you think this is doing nothing you are just plain wrong. If you don't agree with the changes ... Well you can please some of the people some of the time.
Do they get a pass for hiring all these guys in the first place just because they sacked them after the damage was already done?
 
Theres a better chance of a 106 year old Harold Holt turning up on the shores of Portsea alive and well than there is of us removing the current board.

Not too far from my house there is a 'Harold Holt Swimming Pool'.

I've always been undecided between

A) what a nice way to honour a fan of the seas

B) a cruel joke - like naming the Steve Irwin stingray farm or azaria chamberlain camping store..
 

Nori

Club Legend
Nov 16, 2014
1,606
3,824
AFL Club
Carlton
Do they get a pass for hiring all these guys in the first place just because they sacked them after the damage was already done?
Surely Sticks and Swann would ultimately have to take responsibility for these decisions and they're both gone. So yes, the new Pres and CEO get a pass in my book for fixing up the mess.

I don't think it's unreasonable for the new leadership to be given a little time to right the ship and they have been quite busy from what I can see.
 

lachie charm

Cancelled
Feb 8, 2015
1,283
2,198
AFL Club
Carlton
Surely Sticks and Swann would ultimately have to take responsibility for these decisions and they're both gone. So yes, the new Pres and CEO get a pass in my book for fixing up the mess.

I don't think it's unreasonable for the new leadership to be given a little time to right the ship and they have been quite busy from what I can see.
I can't speak for others, but my reservations aren't with the pres or CEO (because as you said they are new) however, the BOARD OF DIRECTORS do not get off so easily ;) check the length of time each has been on the board and then let me know if they get off scot free :)
 
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