Booing of Adam Goodes (revisited after our Apology Ceremony)

[Bucksboys]

Interesting that Goodes and his team mates might walk off the field, would they concede the points or would the AFL split 2 points each? Is it covered by a current rule?

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Interesting that Goodes and his team mates might walk off the field, would they concede the points or would the AFL split 2 points each? Is it covered by a current rule?

Who is suggesting that they may do that?

 

[Bucksboys]

Who is suggesting that they may do that?

Was on AFL 360

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Goodes is being booed not because of his Indigenous background but because he epitomises the political correctness that has emerged and is now rearing its ugly head in Australia.

When supporters are told by the AFL and the media to behave in a certain way, this results in a rebellion against these outlets which is not surprising. Adam Goodes is a symbolic figure of this political correctness and does himself no favours in the way he conducts himself.

He's been a great footballer for Sydney for many years so that's not the issue in question. The issue in question is that Adam has created division in the community and this has upset people. I understand he's passionate about Indigenous causes but doing such things as ridiculing the Australian Constitution, saying Europeans killed, raped and stole from Aboriginal people (using 'Europeans' in a very loose manner) and humiliating a 13 year old has done him no favours along with other things he's mentioned and stated over the years.

Adam also embodies a personality that is unlikeable and stubborn and his playing antics such as diving, playing for free kicks and thuggish acts towards opposition players makes people angry because he is viewed as a protected species by the general public.

I'm certain that a small percentage boo Adam Goodes because they are racists and have an issue towards Indigenous Australians but to categorise everyone as racists because they boo the man is unacceptable and irresponsible and Andrew Pridham is leading the pack here in making comments of that nature. Paul Roos' comments on AFL 360 that if Adam 'feels the boos are racists, therefore it's racist' are absurd and don't make any logical sense.

For what it's worth I don't boo Goodes personally unless he has a set shot at goal against Collingwood or he commits an untoward act towards one of our players where such a reaction will exist.

If this was a race issue why are 70 other Indigenous players on a playing list not receiving boos of a similar nature to Goodes? Clearly the issue is Goodes himself and not racism and taking stress leave depicts him as a weak individual.

 

[Ant85]

I understand he's passionate about Indigenous causes but doing such things as ridiculing the Australian Constitution, saying Europeans killed, raped and stole from Aboriginal people (using 'Europeans' in a very loose manner) and humiliating a 13 year old has done him no favours along with other things he's mentioned and stated over the years.

Except that actually happened.

We live in a country where we're not only even close to acknowledging the genocide and horrific crimes we committed against the indigenous people of this land, but where racism against Aboriginals is still a norm in our culture.

And often that racism is sub-conscious, which I feel is happening with the booing. When the media and the public refer to Aboriginals as child abusers, or rampant drunks, for example, that's a form of racism, but it's become so normalised that we don't even recognise it's racism. This community is denigrated in the public sphere on a daily basis, but we're unaware of the evident racism in our treatment of Aboriginals because it's been the modus operandi since we colonised the place.

Take a look at the WA government proposal to close down remote Aboriginal communities. Politicians and the press have coated this under the guise of addressing issues of child abuse and criminality, or slashing funds, when in essence it is effectively displacing people from their traditional communities and forcing them to relocate into other cities and towns.

If this wasn't Australia, it would be called out for what it is - forced displacement, bordering on ethnic cleansing.

I'm glad Adam Goodes has been in our faces, and forcing us to tackle these issues. We - and I'm referring generally to mainstream Australia, not you or I in particular - don't view Aboriginals equally, whether in the media, in our politics, or in our sports, and that needs to change.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

My issue with Goodes referring to 'Europeans' is he's categorising people with European backgrounds as being responsible for the displacement of his people.

I'm not disputing the history of what happened to Aboriginal people during the first fleet but Europeans consist of not only people with British heritage but also of many other cultures which started to emerge heavily in Australian society from the 1950s onwards during the migration boom of this time.

My family were a part of this boom and had nothing to do with the displacement of Aboriginal people in Australia. If Adam could have specified what he was saying he may have garnered a more positive response from people.

The history of displacement is well-known and should be taught at school but what is Adam trying to achieve by pointing this out though. He should be aiming for reconciliation and holding a progressive view of how the Indigenous community and the wider Australian community can move forward together for the future rather than dredging up ugly truths of the past which achieves nothing but divide communities.

 

[Ant85]

My issue with Goodes referring to 'Europeans' is he's categorising people with European backgrounds as being responsible for the displacement of his people.

I'm not disputing the history of what happened to Aboriginal people during the first fleet but Europeans consist of not only people with British heritage but also of many other cultures which started to emerge heavily in Australian society from the 1950s onwards during the migration boom of this time.

My family were a part of this boom and had nothing to do with the displacement of Aboriginal people in Australia. If Adam could have specified what he was saying he may have garnered a more positive response from people.

The history of displacement is well-known and should be taught at school but what is Adam trying to achieve by pointing this out though. He should be aiming for reconciliation and holding a progressive view of how the Indigenous community and the wider Australian community can move forward together for the future rather than dredging up ugly truths of the past which do nothing but divide communities.

I'm the same, my parents came here in the 1970s, but as an Australian - born and bred - I have to take some form of ownership of what my country did because the repercussions of those crimes still exist today (obviously).

Even if I'm not Anglo Saxon, or a descendant of a convict/British settler, I was born in the settlement they created, and I have lived off that settlement. That settlement was built on the blood of another people, on land stolen from another people, and that fact is inescapable. Sure, my ancestors didn't partake in the crimes, but we've benefited from those crimes, otherwise why would our parents/grandparents move here?

I'm not bothered by Goodes referring to "Europeans", we all know what he's talking about, but we also shouldn't disassociate ourselves from our own responsibility in the matter.

 

[Collingwould]

The history of displacement is well-known and should be taught at school but what is Adam trying to achieve by pointing this out though. He should be aiming for reconciliation and holding a progressive view of how the Indigenous community and the wider Australian community can move forward together for the future rather than dredging up ugly truths of the past which do nothing but divide communities.

I understand where you're coming from however, who should be teaching our kids this stuff at school that you mention? white fellas? and so it's not ok for Adam to bring it to attention and divide us? you see what you've said?

There is a discomfort with what has happened in Australian history with the early European settlers, and indeed I've said on many occasions that it was a bad thing, but it wasn't me so therefore I distanced myself from any association and owning that as history.

My thinking has changed throughout this year, and largely due to this booing saga, and that is this - that we all as part of a reconciliation need to step up and acknowledge the truths, educate ourselves indeed, but also respect and own how actions, albeit many moons ago, have so violently and dramatically affected an entire race of people.

Adam's people were the victims here of a monumental crime, how would we react to this history if it was against us?

 

[Bucksboys]

We like to kid ourselves it's not law of the jungle anymore with our sophisticated societies and dazzling civilization

But underneath we are still animals in competition for dwindling resources and if we have to invade another's country, or rape another's natural resources, or enslave a poorer country so we can live a little better.. we don't hesitate

 

[Helfarch]

Responding in as vociferous a manner as the troglodytes

So you'll boo them, how is anyone going to tell what your boo means and how anti -racist it is?


Maybe Goodes had taken some time off to reflect on the atrocities his people have committed?



Wait for it




Remember he's half Brit.

 

[Ant85]

I understand where you're coming from however, who should be teaching our kids this stuff at school that you mention? white fellas? and so it's not ok for Adam to bring it to attention and divide us? you see what you've said?

There is a discomfort with what has happened in Australian history with the early European settlers, and indeed I've said on many occasions that it was a bad thing, but it wasn't me so therefore I distanced myself from any association and owning that as history.

My thinking has changed throughout this year, and largely due to this booing saga, and that is this - that we all as part of a reconciliation need to step up and acknowledge the truths, educate ourselves indeed, but also respect and own how actions, albeit many moons ago, have so violently and dramatically affected an entire race of people.

Adam's people were the victims here of a monumental crime, how would we react to this history if it was against us?

Excellent post.

We have a tendency to disassociate ourselves from the ugly parts of our history, "that wasn't me or my family", while embracing the positive parts of our history (Eureka, Anzacs etc.). Double standards.

There is a community in this country still suffering from the after effects of the crimes committed against them, and we all need to deal with it if we're going to be able to move forward.

 

[mike123]

I reckon he regretted it once he realised how old she was, but had already set the ball rolling. He more or less said as much. As Vicky Park said, tragic, ugly situation that--but hard to blame Goodes. Blame the media who had to try to name her and photograph her and report on it daily (or hourly).

It was also in the last quarter of a game. Can't speak for him personally but usually find it hard to think through decision involving the crowd because its hard enough thinking about the game.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I guess it's just a bit old fashioned to care about how other people feel.

In order to be fair to TFB here maybe you should revisit the 'Elliott is leaving' thread where TFB changed the tone of the discussion with an appeal to posters to consider the feelings of the players. The post was not so blunt but the message was absorbed and the thread eventually closed. I am with the TFB on this issue but I don't enjoy commenting on indigenous issues because of past experience. I hate the way these threads quickly polarise people on 'racist' grounds. Many posters seem to be saying that it's Goodes and not racism motivating the boos. jmac is maintaining a staunch defence in the trenches of the racially offended brigade, assisted by the usual suspects, plus many persuasive and committed posters.

The issue is not as black and white as the team colours suggest. And I like the way TFD has developed as a poster over the last few years. TFD is becoming a moral antenna in the absence of a more reliable intuitive adviser. I am miles away from all this stuff. I only know the bare essentials. Living in a borrowed 3G only environment on a purely wifi status (my smartphone stolen but still have laptop). I have experienced no recent examples of Goodes' booing, though I am aware of a groundswell of booing building through recent weeks. Perhaps 'boo Goodes' typed into Chrome will provide me with all the boos or otherwise required to formalise a position on the issue. I'll get back to you when I am sufficiently informed to comment ... or either wise not comment at all.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Excellent post.

We have a tendency to disassociate ourselves from the ugly parts of our history, "that wasn't me or my family", while embracing the positive parts of our history (Eureka, Anzacs etc.). Double standards.

There is a community in this country still suffering from the after effects of the crimes committed against them, and we all need to deal with it if we're going to be able to move forward.

What?

Most of Australian society acknowledges the foundation of Australia and it's history with the Indigenous. Does it need anymore?

Most of Australian society acknowledges the ANZACs. Do we do anymore?

I don't see the double standard.

I think we should do whatever it takes to get the Indigenous community on equal footing. Giving them services that they need while respecting their customs and traditions. I'm fine with all that. I can't personally go into specifics because I frankly got no ******* clue what they would be.

But this whole revisiting history and paying repentance for stuff that happened hundreds of years ago. Nah. It's a waste of energy, it's a waste of time and frankly there are more pressing matters to attend to that are more useful.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

So you think Majority of Fans are Racists then?

Should they be Delisted? The Majority of them? That amounts to a lot of footy fans. Love your enthusiasm Dave!

 

[UpTheMags]

theres an element of racism but i dont like him because i think hes a huge egotist. makes everything into a huge deal as with the 12 year old girl. he strikes me as someone who wants to be a hero for aboriginal culture more for his own self-interest. and the war dance, i just saw that as 'hey im adam goodes get me on the front page' and i hated it for that reason alone. totally lacks modesty and his approach to indigenous interests is to create a divide between people in australia rather than bringing us together.

and of course he told gillon mclaughlan that he thinks this is racism - the guys an idiot. he cant even see how much people hate an egotist for being just that: an insufferably arrogant, self-important egotist. white black yellow blue red i wouldnt like anyone who carries on like him

 

[standingroomonly]

Now he's considering retirement because of Boo-ing?

Give me a break, people started booing you because you're a dirty player and an a-hole, they're continuing to boo you because you're a sook.

 

[PieBeast]

Lets list the possible reasons Goodes gets booed in no particular order.
And ignore his perception of it as obviously it's in the eye of the beholder.

a) diving, milking frees
b) racism
c) divisive comments about Australia
d) calling a 12 year old the face of racism
e) being a tool in general
f) laughable AOTY title
g) sliding in knees first for years until it became outlawed
h) the spear dance that apparently was meant to celebrate the culture but only achieved turning even more people against him by antagonising the crowd
i) anti-establishment, f you I won't do what you tell me
k) to put him off his game as it clearly affects him

There's probably more but I have a question for you lefties - why do you lot express such a moral outrage at booing knowing fully well that only a small portion of it has racist connotations yet aren't frothing at the mouth at the generalisation of labeling everyone who booes him a racist?

 

[Bucksboys]

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Has anyone mentioned the Paul David Hewson or Bob Geldoff factor? Too much enthusiasm for a cause or issue, if seen as in any way self-aggrandising as may be the case in a public figure, is construed as w***erism or insincere. On the other hand, a person may use a public persona or reputation as a platform from which to campaign against ignorance and outdated beliefs. The opinions expressed in this thread and beyond lie at the extremities of these views and somewhere in between. Amongst those diversities would be some rednecks and racists. You just have to merge the red and the white or push them aside if you want to make sense of it all.

 

[ThisIsJake]

It's pretty easily summed up.

The booing isn't racially motivated but does have racial relation. It is not because of his background but because of his misguided social, historical and political views about the state of Australia's relationship with Indigenous Australians. The separation between these is clear, this is not a racist attack. In fact it is just a difference of opinion spiralled out of control.

People don't like being told they are bad people, especially when it's not true. You can not speak to a whole country and tell them they have a racism problem. That will never go down well.

At the time of the original incident(13 yr old girl, personally not upset with the pointing as a snap decision and do not hold it against him) the individual case should have been resolved and the actual problems should have been addressed. A 10 minute history lesson at primary schools about indigenous culture? A well run education group for individuals who are caught up in these situations? I don't know, but a broad statement that segregates the community and provides no solution to a sensationalised issue was not smart, in fact it was moronic.

All that said, Goodes has committed one crime and that is simply having an emotionally driven opinion that, well lets not sugar coat it, is incorrect.

He is obviously and understandably upset and to boo now and into the future would be nonsensical.

Any remaining boo'ers please answer me this. Why? To tell the AFL that they can't control us? To tell Adam his opinion was wrong? Freedom to boo? You would bully someone out of there job and passion for these petty reasons? Take a good hard look at yourself.

 

[Black_White]

https://gthomo.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/480/

 

[ppoiter]

What?

Most of Australian society acknowledges the foundation of Australia and it's history with the Indigenous. Does it need anymore?

Most of Australian society acknowledges the ANZACs. Do we do anymore?

I don't see the double standard.

I think we should do whatever it takes to get the Indigenous community on equal footing. Giving them services that they need while respecting their customs and traditions. I'm fine with all that. I can't personally go into specifics because I frankly got no ******* clue what they would be.

But this whole revisiting history and paying repentance for stuff that happened hundreds of years ago. Nah. It's a waste of energy, it's a waste of time and frankly there are more pressing matters to attend to that are more useful.

Can you see how this might be perceived as being a bit narrow-minded? Say someone marched into your grandparents house, trashed the place and kicked them out and inflicted other acts of unspeakable violence on them. And pretend that that act were still having real, measurable effects on your ability to live a truly equal and dignified life. Would you be a bit upset about being told "yeah that was pretty rough but frankly its a waste of energy and time dealing with it and we don't care. Bad luck."

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Collective bullying is not something to be proud of, I have witnessed the effect it has had on people. Anyone participating in it should be ashamed.

'Damn government, no ones going to tell me not to drink and drive. I wouldn't have done it before, but now...'

'White Ribbon Day? I would never have hit a woman, but now...'

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

My issue with Goodes referring to 'Europeans' is he's categorising people with European backgrounds as being responsible for the displacement of his people.

I'm not disputing the history of what happened to Aboriginal people during the first fleet but Europeans consist of not only people with British heritage but also of many other cultures which started to emerge heavily in Australian society from the 1950s onwards during the migration boom of this time.

My family were a part of this boom and had nothing to do with the displacement of Aboriginal people in Australia. If Adam could have specified what he was saying he may have garnered a more positive response from people.

The history of displacement is well-known and should be taught at school but what is Adam trying to achieve by pointing this out though. He should be aiming for reconciliation and holding a progressive view of how the Indigenous community and the wider Australian community can move forward together for the future rather than dredging up ugly truths of the past which achieves nothing but divide communities.

Adam Goodes' father is British and he's married a blonde haired white woman. Goodes is a jerk off of the highest order and should be booed until the day he retires. He's a 34 year old baby. Had he "owned" this situation or simply not acknowledged it, it would have gone away by now. His continual recognition of and reaction to it all is only making it worse.

It's not illegal to boo a player. It's not even racist to boo a player, regardless of their skin colour. Booing is not words. There are no racial slurs being spoken here. Booing has happened in football for as long as football has existed. Goodes knows this, the AFL knows this. They're just hoping it stops on it's own but they don't realist that the more they talk about it, the worse it will get.